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Lesbian vs Gay

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by drake86, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. drake86

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    Why does it seem like society accepts lesbians yet is repulsed by gays. Is this just a skewed assumption. I know that being lesbian is just as hard as being gay. It just seems like it is glamorized by the media sometimes. Just something I was curious about.
     
  2. Maddy

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    I don't think that's the case at all. In some places and some situations, I've seen so much difference in who's accepted. For example, when I was at school, I had a gay male friend in the year above me. Everyone adored him and a lot of people thought his being gay was cool, but when I came out as lesbian, the overwhelming response was "ew". Some gay guys have it really bad, some have it fairly easy. Same with lesbians, same with bi people, same with people anywhere on the spectrum.
     
  3. haelmarie

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    Because we live in a patriarchal society dominated by the male gaze. Therefore two girls is hot, while two guys in disgusting and unnatural.

    Maddy is right though. I wouldn't say that lesbians have an easier time than gays, at all.
     
  4. Greggers

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    Whoever invented Generalizations should be shot :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: This is all that comes of them.

    Some of society rejects lesbians and accept gays, some of society rejects gays and accepts lesbians, some of society rejects both, some of society accepts both. Its ALL dependent on where and who your talking about. Try and refrain from putting generalizations of stereotypes on such vast groups of people because it just cant be done.

    We are the LGBT community. Not the L or G community with B and T on the side. All of us should be treated equal within our community, we owe each other at least that dont you think? Diversity is one of the things we celebrate in the LGBT community, hence the rainbow flag (various colors making up one thing).
     
  5. GhostDog

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    Yes. This.

    As to the OP... It's because by "society", you imply "straight men". I've known plenty of women who found lesbians "gross", thinking that it's something ugly women do when they can't get a boyfriend, and generally being squicked out by it. God, some girls get so pissy when another girl hits on them ("Do I look like a lesbian? Why would she think I was a lesbian? I don't look gay, do I?!"). And I guarantee you, "society" only likes the hot, young, feminine lesbians/bisexual women who happen to appeal to men. A butch girl who'd make my knees go wobbly would probably be met with shouts of "DYKE" by the same guys who'd love to watch two cheerleaders kissing.

    And it is precisely because of a society in which the heterosexual, white, "macho" male has the privilege, that there's some sense that Society Likes Lesbians But Hates Gay Men. In this case, that's only because the privileged element of that society finds two women together hot. It also finds the idea of two men together a threat to ideas about masculinity.

    Neither of these attitudes respect the orientation in itself. If anything, it gives less importance to female relationships. Gay men are a "threat". They might hit on you! They might give you The Gay!

    Gay women? No, of course they're not a threat - after all, you can watch them kiss, and afterward maybe you'll be able to convert them! (Yeeeah, I see a lot of lesbians complaining that men think all lesbians need is "the right man" to make them straight. And boy howdy, these same men all seem to think that the right man is them.)

    This is, of course, generalizing. I'm sure there are a lot of dudes who find two girls kissing hot who aren't complete objectifying jerkwads (hell, I understand, 'tis fun to watch =P). However, there is a significant portion of the hetero male population who are "That Guy". A lot of straight men feel that they are, on some level, entitled to women, just because society has been that way for so long. They haven't been particularly encouraged to think differently. (Granted, it's gotten better, but it still exists.) The boy goes after the girl, and society says, "Atta boy!" The girl goes after the boy, she's told, "Don't let him get any ideas! Don't go out wearing that! COME HOME BY MIDNIGHT!" Female sexuality has been so marginalized for so long, it's simply not taken as seriously as male sexuality.

    And, for our part, women have generally been taught to be passive. We wait for them to come to us. This actually comes up quite a bit in the lesbian/bisexual women community, because so many of us are just too timid to go up to someone and say hi. (Hell, I know I am.) So these attitudes tend to feed into each other. It SUCKS.

    So it's not like Society Likes Lesbians. It's just that straight guys find it titillating. It doesn't mean that gay women get less shit from people they come out to. (Because, really, if you tell a guy you're gay, is it really that much better to hear, "That's hot - can I watch?" than, "Ew"?) I've heard some pretty awful coming out stories from queer men and queer women alike. Just because some frat boy in the distance is cheering at two hot girls kissing, doesn't mean that the scared-to-death lesbian coming out to her parents has it any easier.

    Also; if society is so enamored of lesbians, why are we so underrepresented in the media? (I mean, where do people get the ideas that lesbians are all over TV? Porn? Girls Gone Wild commercials? Come on.)
     
    #5 GhostDog, Oct 12, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  6. Jack2009

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    Two women are hot.

    Jenna Loves Brianna

    Hey media represents lesbianism through celebrities like Lindsay Lohan and Rosie Odonald

    Two leaders of our community!!!!
     
    #6 Jack2009, Oct 12, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  7. Maddy

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    :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
    Also loved what you had to say about how 'lesbianism' is accepted when it's two stereotypically hot girls making out for male attention. When I came out, I was told "you're not hot enough to make being a lesbian OK", and I think that really says it all.
     
  8. Phoenix

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    Also, girls getting it on are only hot to a straight guy if he can join in. If two girls are genuinely gay, and not confused or experimenting then they're lumped in with gay guys as unnatural.
     
  9. Greggers

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    Oh god, that better be sarcasm. Lindsay Lohan has done more damage to lesbians everywhere than any other single person. Ever. She is a coked out media whore that gives liking women a bad name. Her plus the "I kissed a girl" song are basically all you need to give the average person the complete WRONG idea about lesbianism.

    And i love me some Rosie, but she is no Ellen. Rosie is quite the bad role model and gets in so much shit, alot of her she stirs up herself. Thats fine though, not every lesbian should have to be some role model activist. I love her and i think shes great, but she is not a leader of the community in any sense :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  10. Just Adam

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    well like i allways say ..around here i dont think two women kissing would get attacked...wouldent be on teh christmas card list but would prob jsut get all the chavs chatting them up saying pervy things...two guys...well that can go bad.
     
  11. Haiiro

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    :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

    This. All the way.

    That kind of crap bleeds over to female bisexuals, too, only we get more of the "can I join?" kind of shit. :bang:

    Honestly, I can't add much to the arguments already presented.
     
  12. Emberstone

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    I really dont see societies being more accepting. I think that it is just not uncommon to see two girls together out in public because if we go by stereotypes, it is not uncommon for girls to be closer to their friends (and this isnt even a matter of sexuality, but friendship between to straight girls also), that people dont bat a eye.

    but for two guys to seem really close in public just seems odd to many, again, based on stereotypes that guys arent clingy and tend to try to be macho.

    Don't know if I am expressing myself to clearly on this, but two girls with arms locked probably isnt as shocking as two guys arms locked. the reason being, alot of people would assume the girls are just best friends.

    Stereotypes are so ingrained within our culture that, as bad as they can be, they are here to stay for a very long time.

    It might simply be that they dont really see two woman who are close as lesbians.

    The problem is, not every girl is clingy with their friends, and not every guy is macho and adverse to closeness in public...
     
  13. kramer362

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    Because society is still male-dominated in a lot of ways and on the timeline of gay acceptance throughout history, we are in a period where it is just now starting to become acceptable again. Since hetero men are so fascinated and turned on by two women being together, it has implicitly been accepted on a wider scale than male homosexuality. Men are competitive and like to feel dominant over other males since it's in the nature of most, and one common way to out-man another has become to show disgust for man-man love, which has become ingrained in our culture, and perpetuated in each generation.

    It's changing though :slight_smile:
     
  14. Mickey

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    :eusa_clap I agree with you 100%!
     
  15. RaeofLite

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    I think GhostDog and Maddy said it all.

    I can seem "cool" to the guys until they realize they can't "get with me" or "convince me to let them watch me and my gf".
    When it comes to most females, they sit far away if I sit down somewhere, grab their things and leave(shooting me nasty looks), talk about me behind my back, or just ignore me if I try talking to them as if I'm invisible.

    So we don't have it "easier" but the appeal is to straight guys who want to see "two chicks together, yea!"

    ... Give me a break.
     
  16. Eh, I've seen it both ways. Right now I'm dealing with major crap from pretty much everyone right now, guys and girls, and that includes STRAIGHT guys. One of my gay male friends is adored by every girl in the grade, but he gets much worse from the rest of the guys than I do. I think it depends on who and where you are and who is around you.
     
  17. Steve

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    ok
    women usally are more accepting of homosexuailty then males are.
    males accept lesbians because they are male all they see is a potential threesome with 2 girls.

    so both women and men accept lesbians.
    and only women accept gays.

    THIS IS ALL JUST A THEORY WHICH MAY JUST ASWELL BE BULLSHIT
     
  18. Greggers

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    We really need to cut the crap guys.

    Stop saying "women do or think x" and "men do or think y" ect. ect. because its, in essence, the same thing as homophobia. When you take a large group of people, such as "women" or "heterosexuals", and try and make generalizations about them as a whole you are creating stereotypes and labels. How do you think homophobia started? All gays are pedophiles. All gays do drugs. All gays sleep around. These things are generalizations applied to the word "gay" when they really only apply if you use them on a SMALLER LEVEL, such as a person to person basis.

    Example: Tommy is gay. Tommy does drugs. ALL GAYS DO DRUGS?!?! No. Tommy does drugs and is gay. Two different things. No connection.

    It may be true a large chunk of men accept female homosexuality, but what about the OTHER men who dont accept female homosexuality? You cant really say "most men do x" because the only thing that connects all men is the fact they have a penis. Short of that, every single man is different than the next. Some will accept female homosexuality, some wont.
     
  19. Just Adam

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    i agree all people are unaccepting...... well have teh potential to be...nobody has it less or anymore worse...well some do have it worse...butt it all varys...
     
  20. Pendrin2020

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    This is an intriguing argument.

    I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that, sometimes, when a gay man enters into a friendship with a straight woman, she receives all the joys of male attention, with none of the pressure for sex.

    Sounds like a huge relief to me.

    Personally, I think that everyone here is right on one level or another. Humanity is just too fricken big to divide up into a few pieces. Whether or not a Lesbian OR Gay is accepted is completely up to multiple factors far beyond just their gender.

    Where am I? Who are these people? How old are they? How were they raised?

    Big Questions. One of my most supportive straight friends that I have, was born in the sticks and chose to be more than his peers. Mind you he's still a truck driver, but he loves me like a nephew.

    Acceptance by other people is sometimes a Crapshoot, but accepting yourself must be absolute.