This is going to be long, but please read it and see if you can give me insight. Ok! So my mother is ethnically Jewish and until I was 3 yrs old was also religiously Jewish and then converted to Christianity (Protestant-Pentecostal to be exact). My father had converted to being a pentecostal long before I was born. So that is my background! I was raised in church and did the whole church camp every summer while growing up and at one point even wanted to become a youth minister or missionary. I remember when I started being able to process my thoughts on my homosexuality and I prayed to God that he would not let me be gay and that he would make me straight. Now my parents are not "religious". They are true, born again, Christians. They are very very faithful and definitely have a personal relationships with their God and Jesus Christ. They are no longer Pentecostal and actually go to a more toned down and sincere type church (Church of Christ in Christian Union). My parents are the real deal! They are compassionate and understanding. They are giving! They don't sin! I mean all humans sin, but my parents are really really good faithful Christians. They read their bible and do devotions everyday. They take time and pray to God everyday. They don't drink, they don't smoke, and they are not judgmental. Now this doesn't mean that when I came out to them they weren't shocked, confused, and had no idea what was going on. I think almost every parents has that right. As firm believers in the Bible they believe that homosexuality is a sin and that I will parish in hell for eternity for being the way I am. They haven't told me this, I just know that is how they feel because I know my family. Now I'm looking to really come out to my parents and my family and to the world by posting that I'm in to men on facebook. You can read my post here: http://emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31347 to get the full details. The one problem I keep running into, and the one thing I keep looking to see if someone else has gone through it is helping them keep their faith and accepting me for who I am. Personally, I don't think that religion and homosexuality mix. I believe that yes, the Bible was definitely misinterpreted and when hetero Christians quote Leviticus it makes me want to pull my hair out as Jesus said the old laws are out and the new ones are in! (Plus Leviticus talks about so many other things being abominations, like eating shell fish or getting a divorce!). I believe that I myself cannot be a Christian and gay. It is hard for me to separate myself from that and explain it to my family. They will be heart broken! Especially my very pure family. They will think that they have done something wrong, plus they will come at me with the word and I'll not be able to fend for myself and basically have to admit that I AM MAKING A CHOICE TO LIVE AS A GAY MAN! Thus, giving into the heterosexual thought that homosexuality is a choice! My parents are pretty pure! I've read people's accounts about being brought up "religious" and how their parents didn't accept their homosexuality. The majority of these accounts were from exactly that, "religious". My parents aren't religious, they are faithful. My parents aren't putting on a show. They don't go to church because they want people to see them going to church. They aren't doing things, like smoking, or drinking, which is frowned upon. When I saw the movie "Prayers for Bobby" the opening scene shows the mom smoking a cigarette. Later, the dad is drinking a beer in a scene. My parents consider these things not to be very Christian-like. I've yet to find anyone whom comes from a family like mine. I respect my parents and their faith in God. It is quite admirable. I'm not afraid that my parents will disown me. I think they will have trouble with other people in their circle knowing about me but my par
why not try both, I mean it's not easy, and as cheesy as what I'm about to write is, why not try to be Gay for God, Homosexuality isn't a sin and everyone sins, the bible does say, come as you are
Well, there are indeed some difficulties reconciling a Christian faith to being gay. Some good points made in several films, which I support are: The bible, as containing all things necessary for salvation, was written by individuals who had particular cultural worldviews. When they described inviduals engaging in homosexual acts, they were straight men who, in their lust, had sex with other men. They never encountered, or could even conceive of, people who were inherently homosexual and whose interest in men wasn't driven by lust but by emotional need. Secondly, the message of Christ was one of love - God gives us three gifts - faith, hope, and love - and the greatest of these is love. People who hate in the name of Christ do not follow his teachings. These are some of the things which were important to me when I did my best to reconcile my Christian faith with my sexuality. And at the end of the day, God is steadfast in love and infinite in mercy - he isn't here to condemn you and hate you, but to love and save you. That's the inspiring message of Christianity, and one which I treasure.
I am Catholic and gay. I am convinced that God made me the way I am for a reason. I belive God loves me very, very much, as He loves all creation. I believe God wants us to support each other with love rather than pronounce human judgments claiming to know what is inside the mind of God. Judge actions as good or bad based on the results achieved. When we hide, deny, repress and pervert our sexuality bad things happen: Self hate. Depression. Joyous days of life passed in pain. Suicide. Sexual offenses against others. Etc. When we live the live - energy springing from our souls we are positive and creative. we are loving and loved. we are better able to communicate positive love to others, both sexual and others. our relationships are healthier. So, living with integrity is what we are called to do. What do you think?
Thank you. I agree that God is a loving God and that he did give us gifts. But, I'm not just referring to the 6 times in the Bible where "homosexuality" may be mentioned. I think that the life of a Christian and that of a gay person do not go hand in hand. God doesn't mention in the Bible accepting men marrying men or women marrying women. A wife is clearly translated from the female word meaning "wife" from the original texts. Not that I sit and think about this and dwell on it, but if I were to take the Bible to heart and to faith then I wouldn't be living the christian lifestyle. Pre-maritial sex is a sin. If I can't marry in the name of God, then I'll have to be celibate for the rest of my life. I'm actually not too worried about my own soul. I don't want to try and understand or try and make the Bible make sense for homosexuals. I just want to know the stories of others who grew up in a VERY VERY faithful and very non-judgmental home like myself. What did you say when your parents asked you why you were throwing away everything you were brought up to know about Christ and God? What did you say when they told you that you would be going to hell according to the Bible? How do they treat you now, knowing that you have chosen to live who you are? What did you say to them when they told you homosexuality was just the devil testing us and that we had to denounce him and try to live a normal heterosexual life? I want to hear about how you did it. Not to be a dick, but there are a ton of hypocrite Christians out there! Families who go to church because it looks good. I want to hear from the people who were brought up in a non-hypocrite family, like mine.
Well, I can't exactly say that my family was pure-bread Christian. However, I would never say that the reasons why we went to church was hypocritical. Our own description for ourselves is that we are 'buffet' Catholics. We see Christianity as a way to connect with God, and to learn to become better people. There are important life lessons and virtues to be learned from being Christian. Being able to regularly attend mass is a way to reaffirm your devotion to God, and to yourself. We call ourselves 'buffet' Catholics though because there are some aspects of Catholicism that we just don't agree with. Much of it is all holed up in politics, but it is also comes from our views on the interpretation of the Bible. It's our view that the Bible is a guide to living a good life, but it isn't fact. It's example. Certainly we can model our life of the Bible still, but we don't want to shove it down anyone's throats either. As for what my parents think about me being gay, they both don't mind one bit. My mom in fact has been the only one to even bring up religion with me. The day after I came out to her, she sat me down for a talk, and she told me of her concern. She was afraid that because I was gay, I would start to abandon my religious beliefs. She understood that a lot of homosexuals move away from religion and many hold quite extreme anti-religious views. She voiced that she didn't want me to let myself become influenced by them. She wanted me to promise that I would always remain true to my Christian upbringing. (She continued on saying something about angels and me when I was little, but that's not quite on topic right now). Anyways, I still believe that I can live my life as a devout Catholic. Just because I'm gay doesn't mean that God doesn't love me or wants me to be happy.
here's an idea. go interview your local catholic priest, presbyterian minister, jewish rabbi, and any other religious figure you can identify and see what they counsel.
My parents are both Christian. And I'd say (by your definition) that they're more "faithful" than "religious". They don't just go to church on Sundays. They volunteer, they give of themselves, and they live (quietly) by the credo that "they will know we are Christians by our love". We never had crucifixes on the walls, or fish on the bumpers of our cars. But people have always known my parents were good people, by their compassion and their acts. They know they have a gay son. And they love him just as much as their straight son (and straight daughter). They introduce him and his partner to their friends as "Lex and his partner". They don't feel they failed in some way. They don't feel they didn't pray hard enough, or raise him correctly. They see how happy he is, and know that they did everything right. I've never really spoken to my parents in great detail about this. (Why would I? I ain't gonna question their unconditional love. ) But I think of it like this. My father was rather the athlete growing up. He played football in college and that sort of thing, and I think he was looking to "toss the pigskin around" a bit with his two sons as they grew up. And instead, he got two bookish sons. Ones who loved reading and puzzles and games, but weren't too keen on sports. Was my father disappointed? I'm sure he was a bit. But far more than any disappointment was the knowledge that we were what we were. He couldn't make us athletes or make us enjoy sports any more than you can force a square peg into a round hole. Instead, he encouraged us at what we DID like. And we bloomed under that encouragement. We grew up being really good at what we like, and loving ourselves for liking what we like. My father can't claim to have two NFL-worthy sons to his name, but he has two extremely happy, very successful sons who love what they do. And he knows that's what's most important. Irony time. Last year, my father watched from the stands as, at an NFL game, one of his children took the field and played football in front of 80,000 fans. ...his daughter. Lex
Hey Etienne, you know I've had major issues with my parents and their extreme religious beliefs. I know where you're coming from. These words are a paradox when I try to objectively understand them. You go to great lengths to try and differentiate between "religious" and "faithful". You say your parents are "non-judgmental", and yet all your concerns are about their judgments of your homosexuality. You said it yourself; you're not worried about your own soul. So what is it that you're worried about? Is it their judgments of you? No, it seems like you're worried that they represent absolute judgment - that since they are faithful and pure in their beliefs, these are somehow greater than their beliefs, they are now absolute beliefs. Your parents are the voice of God not because they're religious, but because they're true believers. That's a paradox! It sounds to me like you haven't fully formulated your own personal position on the role of religion in your life. Look at it this way; if you were secure in your own personal belief system, whatever it is, then the beliefs of others, parents included, wouldn't hold any weight - they would simply be opinions that differ from what you know to be true. I'm reading (with an open mind) the book "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. He contends that parents have a potent power over their children when it comes to establishing religious values, one that is extremely hard to change later in life, even when we decide it's right for us to change it. In other words, the power is so great that often we can't just reason it away. It sounds to me like part of your trouble in finding your own religious foundation is an inner battle with the voices of your parents telling you what is right and what is wrong. That's the only way I can explain the paradox of you knowing that you have to come to your own conclusions about religion, and yet placing absolute authority in the religious views of your parents. This may sound tough, but you might need to lower your esteemed view of your parents when it comes to their faith. If you can't distance your own religious views from theirs, then you will forever be hostage to their views and powerless to influence them. If they can't accept your homosexuality within their religious framework, you'll be trapped and unable to escape. Here's my two cents worth as a recovering victim of religious abuse. You are free to come to your own conclusions about religion, no matter what your parents believe or have taught you. This is your life, and you ultimately have to be accoutable to yourself, not to them. You are free to choose any path, from becoming a priest to becoming an athiest and everything in between, and that choice is between you and your maker. If you need to fit homosexuality into your religious beliefs, find a way to do so; you'll be in good company.
Hey James, After reading what you said, I think you are wrong. I actually thought about it and think that my problem is NOT that my parents will judge me but to the degree that they will ACCEPT me. I think I'm afraid of compromising what they hold to be true and challenging them to think differently. They have done nothing but love and support me my whole life. I think my worry is coming from me being a bit selfless and worrying how they will deal with their friends knowing and having to live the rest of their life having a gay son. I know that sounds absolutely crazy, but I really love my parents and I owe them a TON! I kind of have this "guilt" about being gay, I suppose. It isn't fair! It isn't fair to me and it isn't fair to them either. Neither of us asked for this obviously. Anyway, I'll make my way through it and let them know that this is who I am and that I didn't ignore their teachings as I grew up. I still think I'm a pretty outstanding human being having been raised by my parents who taught me good values and morality (even though I've strayed away at a few points in my life). Anyway, thanks everyone for your advice and comments. Lex, my parents sound very much like yours! Also, James, I can't put it into words but what I mean by my parents being different is kind of how Lex described his parents. They aren't in your face "Christians" shoving it down your throat and they don't sit there and say "I'm a Christian" and then go and get plastered at a wedding like SO many so called Christians do.
Watch Prayers for Bobby, I believe the pastor who helps Mary does cite passages that help show the flaws of the Bible. Just saying.
I'm sorry if I came across as judgmental of your parents - I didn't mean to be. I can see that your relationship with your parents means a lot to you. Our situations may be a little different, but I can relate to the challenges of trying to balance a healthy acceptance of your sexuality with the need for a good relationship with your parents. It can be difficult to reconcile the two, and I genuinely hope you find the way!
And another thing .. .. .. Read your old scripture passages with a bit of looseness, Consider this. 1. Much of the OT (Old Testiment, including your leviticus passages) is the origin of Jewish Law. Remember the 619 RULES said to have passed DIRECTLY from Yahweh to Moses? Jesus expressly told us that those were out the window. Love is the only rule. It does not appear, post JC, that the Christian God is one of Rules, other than that of Love. Shoot, I had another profound revelation, but lost it for the moment. if it comes back I will add it!
so, i feel like i can relate. my family sounds exactly like your family and i have the same upbringing. i know all of what the bible says, with several different interpretations of all those passages. i came out to my parents two weeks ago yesterday. It was hard. I also came out to them as not considering myself to be a christian anymore, especially because i found it difficult to marry being gay to being a christian. so instead i'm just trying to figure all this shit out. my parents dont care as much as who i'm attracted to, as much as they care about where i'm spending the rest of my life after i die. my parents and my brother are deeply concerned about my spiritual life rather than my sex life, although that is certainly a concern of theirs. I told them that through all my life I had been living my families christian life, but not my own. all my thoughts and decisions were what i knew my family wanted me to think and decide, not what i wanted to do. so i told them that i needed to clear my head of their thoughts and begin to think for myself for a change. if at some point i did become a christian than great, if i decide thats not for me, then great. but i need to be the one deciding what i do in life and where my life is headed. my family thinks its wrong and sinful to be homosexual and they are disappointed in the "choice" that I have made. they have asked me questions like: "when did you decide to be gay" "why did you decide to be gay" "how long are you going to keep being gay, when are you going to get over it" they are trying to figure out how I became gay, most recently blaming it on me watching porn. they really earnestly want to try to understand what is going on in my life and they want me to get back to god. and they are slowly understanding that i need to either walk to god or walk away from god on my own. its hard for my parents to talk to me as if everything is "normal" because instead of talking to a son that once they die they know that they will see him in heaven, they are talking to a son who they believe wont be in heaven with them. they have a hard time talking to me about relationships and life because they believe that my "lifestyle" is inherently wrong and sinful and they completely disapprove of it. i'm hoping that with time it will get easier. their love for me hasn't changed, they still love me with all their heart and would do anything for me just like they always have. etienne, if i can share anymore of my story with you let me know and if i can help you out on your journey i would sincerely love to.
Thank you! You are the first person to get me! I'd say I'm sorry about how your parents are reacting, but I think you and I both know that we KNEW they would react that way and we couldn't ask them to react any other way. I almost feel ok if my parents never accept me for being gay. As long as their love for me never changed, I would be ok with that. As long as they respected me for who I am and respected my future partner, I'd be fine. That is, if they can accept that I may be going to hell (if it exists). Btw I wrote this on your wall as well!
My mom and dad were both raised catholic, and so were me and my brothers. The difference is that my parents were fairly non-religious. We didnt go to church much after my parents divorced/age 12-ish. My grandparents on my moms side are very religious, my grandmother raised catholic, my grandfather raised anglican and later converted to catholicism. I was always the most religious of my moms kids, I was the one who was god fearing, but by the same token I tried to believe that god was a loving god. In the end I found that I was more agnostic than christian, because I did not feel comfortable as a catholic, I found the whole religion to very hypocritical, so I always felt uncomfortable about that. The closest religions that match my belief system are Shinto or Wiccan, but I don't want to resign myself to any belief system. That being said, I think Ted Schmidt from Queer As Folk said it best: "I think God appreciates it even more. Because he created you in his image. At least that's what I was always taught. And since God is love and God doesn't make mistakes, then you must be exactly the way he wants you to be. And that goes for every person, every planet, every mountain, every grain of sand, every song, every tear... and every faggot." If the Christian god exists, I do believe she loves everyone, and that she created them in her image, and since god is all-powerful and knows EVERYTHING, she is incapable of making mistakes therefore she must want gay people around to keep the population from going through the roof or something.
