1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Forgiveness

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Sylver, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. Sylver

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kenora, Ontario
    Since you guys are my new family here (&&&) I'd like to ask your advice on something that's been gnawing at me for years.

    When I was a kid in elementray school and even into junior high school, I took a lot of verbal and physical abuse from other kids and I was frequently bullied. They would regularly tease me by yelling "You're gay" or "You're such a fag" in front of all the other kids (this was before I even knew what those words meant and definitely before I was sexually aware). They would also ambush me on my way to and from school and beat the crap out of me and I never really fought back. Pathetic, right?

    Funny thing was it wasn't just one or two bad kids, it was groups of them. And as my parents moved me from school to school to try and stop the problem, it was new groups of kids in each new school. I don't know why I was a target of theirs, but whatever, I just was. Anyway I finally found a progressive school for grades 11 and 12 and there and in university things got totally better. I think I'm quite a strong person now, but as a kid I was a magnet for abuse.

    But even as an adult I still have deep feelings of resentment towards these people. Part of me wonders if I "turned out" gay because they called me it so many times. I've never met any of them as an adult, but sometimes I think I'd wind up and clock them in the face for what they did to me, or I'd knife their tires or something. I feel like I need some kind of revenge or compensation for what they did to me.

    But my "better self" says I need to forgive them - for my own sake, not for theirs. I'm not a very religious person, but I do understand how forgiveness can be an important part of healing. I just can't see how I can do this, though. For one thing, I'll probably never see them again - I live in a big city. And I just don't think forgiveness will be satisfying if they don't acknowledge that what they did to me was wrong.

    What's the best way for me to move past this? Your awesome advice is always appreciated! :icon_wink
     
  2. Jim1454

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,284
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Toronto
    Carrying resentment around for years isn't a healthy thing to do. I've learned the hard way. It can be very destructive, and it's totally counter productive.

    In my addiction recovery this is a big part of the program. Two of the readings that were most helpfulto me were the Serenity Prayer and Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.

    You can't change a single thing that happened in your past. Not one. Instead, you have to accept that it has happened. I would say it is acceptance rather than forgiveness that is key. I become far less 'invested' in a situation from my past once I accept that it in the past and that nothing can be done about it. It brings home the point that there's really no point in stewing over it any longer. Then, it becomes much easier to forgive, or to at least recognize why that person did what they did.

    It might be worth working with a counsellor too to talk through all of this. Especially if it is bothering you.

    Not sure if that helped or not. (*hug*)
     
  3. Zumbro

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Troy, NY
    ^^^

    That's a much better way to say what I was thinking. It isn't really about forgiveness, it's more of realizing that there's nothing that can be done, and it has come and gone, and doesn't matter about today. I certainly have some assholes in my past that I held a grudge against for a long time, but at some point I realized it wasn't worth the energy I put into it, nor were the people. And even if they did shape me into what I am today, I like what I am. And now I just move on. If they want to come say they're sorry, fine, but until then I don't really need to worry about it. I should be focusing on other things, like work... :icon_eek:
     
  4. Filip

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Belgium, EU
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    “New family”? I feel honoured! :slight_smile:

    It’s sometimes hard to move beyond what happened in the past, and I’m not sure if I can give a definitive answer, but I can give a few thoughts that helped me.

    First of all, revenge is definitely not the right way to go. Even if you managed to punch one in the face, or knife their tires, you would still not lose the feeling that they got off light for what they did to you. And revenge only begets more frustration and revenge, so instead of moving ahead, you’d get sucked into the drama all over again. But you already know that, I’m sure.

    I can’t say I was ever abused like you were, but I can say that my elementary school and the first few years of highschool weren’t a cakewalk either. I was regularly called names and, on occasion, intimidated. What mainly stopped it from going further was that my mom was a teacher at the same school I went to, and that I did have a group of friends to hang out with. So I got lucky there. I still do remember the feeling of looming threats hanging over me, though.

    Two years ago, I went to my highschool reunion (five years after graduating). There, I saw some people who I passionately hated at one point or other. And I was amazed at how much they changed in just a few years. They mostly seemed to have become quieter and more thoughtful. It was hard being angry with them, since a lot of what made them so hateful wasn’t there anymore.

    So, what you need to remember is that the people who did this to you don’t really exist anymore. They were young, and they were confused and they didn’t really realise what they did. They didn’t know how to deal with the world, and some of them went the road of aggression to silence their own uncertainties. Who we are as a child gets washed away in a wave of hormones and changes in puberty, and a lot of who we are in puberty clears away when the hormonal haze clarifies. Probably, if you would confront them now, they would say “what was I thinking at the time?”

    Of course, it is possible that some of them didn’t change. But that should be a source of pity and not hate. You moved beyond your youth and became a better person. They never did. If they remained bullies they probably never really got far. And even if they got far, they are probably still the same inside: afraid of their position, and lashing out at others to silence their own doubts.

    If there ever is some kind of school reunion, I would say: go to it, and see if they turn up. Don’t be confrontational even if you feel like it and just bring it up. You might be surprised at how much they changed. They might feel bad about it now.
    I know that school reunions are usually with your graduating class, so such a thing might not be forthcoming. If you can’t meet them again, I would say that it’s best to remember that all experiences, even the bad ones, make us into we are now. You’re a strong person now, and maybe, in some way, the bad experience helped you in becoming stronger. What happened in the past happened. It made you into the strong person you are now, and shouldn't determine your future! (*hug*)
     
  5. malachite

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Orlando
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    The more posts I read here the more I realize people have gone through the same stuff as me. I was that odd ball kid. I got beat up, picked on, and called a fag on a daily basis. I never fought back either. However, my parents never shuffled me to any new schools, they told me deal with it. In high school I switch between two schools (once was a move the other a district change) and the result was the same: I was the outcast and everyone seemed to hate me.

    I still harbor feelings of resentment toward the kids that treated me like shit, and I’ve come to realize it stems from the feeling that you missed out on piece of your childhood because of them. You feel robbed, and you (we) were. Forgiveness may not be on the table, but I have become a much stronger person because of my past, as you said you have, though I have developed anger issues.

    As for thinking you turned out gay because everyone said you were, well I had those thoughts but they just aren’t true. Just because someone calls you gay, especially kids who have no idea what it even means to be gay, doesn’t make you gay.

    Many times I wish, and I’m sure you have too, that you could take the person you are now and go back to high school, but that just isn’t reality.
     
  6. Sylver

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kenora, Ontario
    Good God, you have NO idea how close this hits to home! I could not have put that into better words than you just chose - I can't thank you enough for saying this. When I think back on those years I have no fond memories, all I have is bad memories, and I feel robbed. Compound that with shortly after this discovering that I like guys and that my adolescence was going to be a lot different from all the other "normal" kids, plus a deliciously dysfunctional family, and there's a recipe for lifelong problems.

    I also want to thank all the others who have posted some very thoughtful comments. I hadn't actually thought about acceptance... and I do need to think about that. I find it strange to find wisdom in movies, but there was a Star Trek movie (I think it was Star Trek V) where Capt Kirk was offered the chance to wipe his past clean. His response was "Pain and guilt... are the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!". I do understand how it's a part of who I am now, and if it had been any different, I wouldn't be the person I am today!

    By the way, I hope I don't come across as a whiner! I'm actually a pretty well-adjusted person all things considered - I'm just trying to sort out this whole life thing, and that means coming fully out of the closet and also cleaning out the closet of a few skeletons that were keeping me company during my self-inflicted incarceration! :icon_bigg :thumbsup:
     
  7. malachite

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Orlando
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I felt the same way when I read your post, like I was read a book of my childhood. I sort of compare it to someone who has hurt someone you love (which you should love yourself, just putting that out there). If you find out someone raped a loved one or attacked them, you would never truly forgive that person. The same can be said for this situation, and it kind of makes you feel like the karmic cycle is crap. However, I have found that if I hadn’t had the childhood I did I would be as strong a person as I am now. (Even though I only weigh 155 pound I can make people 3 times my size back off). It is sort of a trade off, you’re tough but you are also tough on yourself and the people you love.

    Any whoo those are my thoughts do with them as you will.

    Oh, and if you feel like messaging me any time, feel free!:thumbsup:
     
  8. Eleanor Rigby

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,767
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    France
    I completly relate to what you describe. I have been bullied in elementary school and then even more roughly during 4 years in middle school by the same group of person.
    I haven't been called "fag" of course, but they had a large range of names to refer to me, the kindest one being fat pig. They spitted at me, they beated me, to make it short they made my life a nightmare.
    For some reason I can't explain to myself even now, my parents never tried to change me from school, and most of my teachers prefered to be blind, even when I was kicked during their course.
    Fortunatly for me, it stopped when I started hight school. Those people were not my classmates, and I made new friends who protected me in the corridors. But I have been scare until the end of high school to cross their way without my body guards.
    I have been angry with those people during years after high school. I have seen some of them again, I grew up in a small town, especially that girl who was their leader and who I hated with all my guts for years.
    Then, with time, the anger went away. I don't know if I can say I have forgive them, but I think I have. More than anything, I realised that they probably didn't know what they were doing. And even if they did, it would make me just as bad to do them the same if I could.
    Speaking about it in therapy helped a lot. Having good, realiable and loving friends helped too. But most of all, time helped to let the anger go away.
    Now, I would even say that in the end, the kids who bullied me made me a favour : the last consequence of what they did to me is that I am more than wakeful with my pupils. Bullying is not something I tolerate in my school.
     
  9. i need help

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fort Wayne, IN
    dont know if this would help as kind of a closure if thats what your looking for , but you could change your facebook status to something along the lines of
    ...to all the people who have done me wrong in my life i dont as much forgive you as much as i am putting you behind me so i can move on with my life...
    or something like that...