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sexual predation

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Ander Blue, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Ander Blue

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    Okay, so my wording for the thread title may be a bit harsh - but it's really sorta the way I feel about what's happening. Over the past month, I've had two guys friend me on facebook (they were friends of friends) and try to get in my pants. Neither of them have said this explicitly, but it's incredibly obvious what their intentions have been. Neither guy did I know in any way shape or form. Our only connection was that we happened to have a single common friend in both cases. Generally, I friend anyone who gives me an invite on facebook - however, I'm starting to question that now. Somehow these two, and probably others, are finding their ways into my profile and trying to start things up with me. Luckily in the two cases so far, I've been able to contact my common friend and find out that these guys are just trying to get me into bed.

    It has me scared though. I never thought I would have to deal with something like this. Thinking of it, I'm reminded of how my sister was conditioned by my mom growing up to identify these sort of situations and taught how to handle them. Being a guy, I didn't think I'd run into this situation where I'm being taken advantage of by others for sexual exploitation. I'm starting to realize how wrong that assumption is though. And I'm frightened. I really don't know what to do, and I'm afraid that I'm going to get caught by one of these things one day. I asked another of my gay friends for help on this, and he was utterly shocked that this was happening. He had never been put in this sort of situation before and had no idea what to do about it. I know that my sister and mom would probably have something to tell me if I asked them, but I don't want to ask them about it. I know that if I do, I'll just be scaring them shitless about what's happening to me out here at college.

    I haven't been this genuinely frightened in a long time. Normally I'm a really trusting and loving individual, but I feel like I'm starting to turn cold out of defense. I don't want to change myself, and I want to figure out a way to deal with this that allows me to still be me.

    To everyone out there who has any idea of what to do, or how to handle this, come to grips with it, or understand it - please help
     
  2. Mirko

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    Hi there! I think you should be more careful as to whom you are adding on FB. I wouldn't add everyone who sends a friend request. If you don't know who these people are, or have never met them before, and even if they have a friend in common, don't add them. Before you add someone, and you see that they have a friend in common ask him or her as to who they are, as you have done. Keep doing that if you want to add people, or alternatively just ignore the request if you don't know them, which of course would be the much safer route.

    Always put your safety and privacy first! Always! You don't have to change for that to happen. You can still be the trusting and loving individual and the same Chaz that you have always been because being you has nothing to do with adding people on FB. Direct your qualities towards the people who mean well and really respect you for the person that you are.
     
  3. Doreibo

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    I was planning on saying precisely what Mirko has said! Do as he says and it will go fine!
     
  4. Johnnieguy

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    Do be careful. I have met people through facebook and it has turned out okay, however just because I have had decent experiences in the past doesn't mean I'm going to add everyone who friends me either.

    We can't live our lives in fear, though. Bad things happen to good people (most recently with the disappearance of Chelsea King in Poway, CA) even when all precautions are taken. Control what you can and be alert-that's about all you can do.
     
  5. Jim1454

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    I'm not sure what you're afraid of...

    Are you afraid that you might accidently sleep with someone that you didn't mean to? That's unlikely to happen.

    Are you afraid that someone might lie to you to get what they want? That is bound to happen.

    Knowing that is your best line of defense. It doesn't mean that you have to turn all jaded and cynical. But you do have to be cautious. Because while you do trust people and have their best interests at heart, many people don't live like that.

    You need to be aware of that. We all do.
     
  6. Sylver

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    The above advice doesn't just apply to Facebook, it applies to all situations, even here on EC and in the real world too. There are plenty of creeps in the world who are looking for action and will use malicious ways to get it, and just like everyone else you are a target.

    I believe you need to set up two lines of defense if you're going to get through life safely. The first is to set up a "perimeter defense" for yourself. You need to be selective about who you let into your world. In the real world someone wouldn't be your "friend" just by shaking your hand the first time you met - you'd get to know them, spend some time with them, get comfortable, etc. It should be the same way on any social networking sites. People have to earn your friendship, so don't just give it away freely, or you'll be leaving the door open for the pervs to get in. I believe the same applies in dating or relationships - you're taking chances if you run home with everyone and anyone you meet in a bar. So don't be a friend-whore! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    The second defense is necessary when the pervs get past your first line of defense, and it's standing up for yourself. Even if you're very disriminating about who you let into your inner circle, there's always a chance some unsavory person is going to get through. That's when you need to trust your "spidey senses" and push back, sometimes hard. If someone crosses your line, tell them so in no uncertain terms. If that doesn't stop them, then take action. On Facebook, remove them as your friends immediately. In real life, know when to say no and how to say it forcefully. Know your rights and know how to escalate things, even to the authorities if necessary.

    You have to be able to look after yourself and to protect yourself. I sense that you're a personable, trusting, sensitive and caring person who probably doesn't like to make waves, but that's exactly what the creeps are looking for. It does not make you any less caring or kind and it definitely doesn't make you cold if you stand your ground when someone crosses your line. Everyone has boundaries, and as you get older you'll find that sometimes you have to be prepared to defend them. If you don't look out for your own interests and safety, then who will?
     
  7. dromadus

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    Sorry but I just don't get this. You are over 18, just say yes or just say no. Electronic communications are not an equivalent physically of banging on the door. A lot of people looking for sex use a variety of methods to meet new people and potential partners. I like sex, I bet you like sex, and so do other people. It used to be bars and parties for me, but times change.

    On EC, however, a lot of the members are under age 18 and what you are concerned with is extremely important here. What might be appropriate on Facebook, and your concerns about it would be urgent here. Thus the rules enforcing that nothing that could allow identity beyond these virtual walls to be revealed is well entrenched and I think heavily monitored. Kudos to EC.

    Just relax, say no, and don't give any additional access to personal information. So somebody wants to get in your pants :dry: The alternative is that nobody would want to get in your pants. Want that to be the trade off? :lol:
     
  8. Chip

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    Sadly, what I overwhelmingly hear from practically everyone I know who is under 25 is that this is a chronic problem for gay men, and not just on Facebook. A lot of gay guys will say or do absolutely anything to get you in the sack, and some of them will work on it for weeks or months to do it.

    I know of at least a half dozen who have had their drinks spiked while out at a club or sometimes just at a friend's party, sometimes with really awful results.

    I very strongly disagree with the idea that it's "no big deal" that someone wants to get into your pants, or that it's an either/or with nobody wanting into your pants. It is exactly that sort of mindset that makes gay culture so abhorrent to those of us who aren't looking to hook up with anything that moves at bars and parties and clubs and the like. I'm not specifically condemning those who want to have hookups, but many of those types do seem oblivious to the fact that it can be offensive and bothersome to those who place a higher value on sex, and/or they simply don't care and hit on everyone or everything that moves knowing that it's nothing but a numbers game.

    You have the right to be treated with respect and courtesy, and personally, I think it's really reasonable to be able to add someone on Facebook without worrying that their ulterior motives are to get you in the sack. It's nice that you've been able accept most everyone be your friend on Facebook, but unfortunately what you're finding is what most everyone your age seems to run into.

    What I've been told is that adding to your public profile a not-too-subtle indication that you're not interested in hookups, or not interested in people over a certain age, or things like that will reduce the number of come-ons you get... but the problem is that the worst offenders don't bother to read anyway and send messages based solely on your picture.

    The other recommendation I've made to people which seems to be really effective is to make your profile mostly private, write a public, meaningful statement about who you are and what you're looking for on your profile, and then put as your one public picture something that isn't you... instead, use a pic of your dog, or an illustration, or something like that (NOT a hunky picture of someone else). That way, the people who genuinely want to talk to you, and aren't looking to get in your pants, will do so.

    It's sad that things have come to this, but it is, from everything I've heard from people your age, the way it is, and these are the only effective means I've heard of to combat the problem.
     
    #8 Chip, Mar 2, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  9. Sylver

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    I agree 110% with Chip on this. I don't think anyone has a "right by default" to hit on anyone else, whether it's well-intentioned or otherwise. It's far too easy for predators to take advantage of a sensitive or shy person who may have trouble saying no or who's naturally friendly with everyone, and that is plain wrong.

    Yes, partnering among gay people is already difficult because we're a much smaller percentage of the population, but that by no means gives anyone the right to presume that everyone is fair game as long as they are of legal age. I'm sorry, but in the balance of justice between the needs of gays on one hand to find partners for sex or for life or for whaveter purpose and on the other hand to have the right to not be hit on, I think the scales have to tip towards the rights of the individual to not feel threatened, harassed, targeted or even just offended. Yes it makes it harder for those looking for sex or for relationships or whatever, but so be it.

    And it's an even easier presumption in the world of social networking. Unless I'm broadcasting on Facebook that I'm looking for a relationship or whatever, you should assume that I'm not and stay the hell away if that's what you're after. If I'm on EC it's probably because I find this to be a safe haven, so you can safely assume that I'm not looking to hook up with anyone here. On the other hand if you're a member of a dating site or a porn exchange site, then you could probably assume the opposite.
     
  10. zzzero

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    Well your first mistake is adding people on facebook you've never encountered in real life. I make a point to not add anyone on facebook who either i'v never met in person before or I dont know. There are a few people who have added me who i technically had not met in person but I can confirm they are who they say they are. If I dont like someone or they post annoying statuses or something i'll take em off my friends. nothing makes them be friends with you.

    And you should have your privacy settings set to the max. It's unsafe to have an open profile for just this kind of reason.
     
  11. Mind Freak

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    That's one of the reasons that I only add people that I know on facebook. Even if we have 100 mutual friends I'm not going to add someone unless I've had a conversation with them and feel that they're safe to talk to. If I would be freaked out to be alone with someone they don't need to be on my friends list.

    Now that that's been said; I'm not sure what kind of advances they've been making. But if someone is making you uncomfortable just tell them straight up. I'm not interested and I don't really like the way you're talking to me so please cut it out. If they keep it up, block em and wipe your hands of the situation.

    It's great to be friendly and open but you can't let that lead to you possibly becoming a victim. Sometimes you have to be blunt and it's not easy if you're normally laid back and easy going (believe me I know)

    And as far as how to stay safe going out (which is what you're getting at I guess) my advice is try to stick with people you know, if you've just met someone avoid being alone with them in a private area for a few weeks until you can feel them out. Based on comments, gestures, and body language you can sometimes weed out the creeps.

    If you get vibes that someone's intentions aren't good; you're probably right and try to avoid them or set them straight the first time they step out of line.

    Being safe and cautious doesn't mean you have to be cold; just straight forward. There's a difference. Cold is "Your breath stinks beat it" straight forward is "You're making me uncomfortable could you back up" or "You're making me uncomfortable could you stop speaking to me like that"

    Hope I helped!
     
  12. Chip

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    To be fair, I've made some amazing real-life friendships that started from someone adding me or me adding them when I'd never met them in person. In some cases, the person lived across the country and it was months or years before I met them IRL. But caution is advised, and I think that on the whole, the comments from both Taylor and Mindfreak are worth considering.
     
  13. Miss Bubbles

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    Ander I have been through this and I'm quite a bit younger then you. You sound a little like me so here is how i did it kay? I would fight back not with flirts or reverse psychology. I mean if they kept attempting I would yell shout scheme do anything in my power to get them to stop then thwey understood that I am not just a cute little face they can mess with. I am now a known force of nature.
     
  14. Filip

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    Well, to be fair, as far as I can hear, it's a problem for a lot of women too. Most (if not all) of my female friends have at one point or other been inappropriately hit on by men old enough to be their father. So let's not make this a purely "gay men" thing either.
    On the other hand, as you said, women are taught to assume it. So in a way it's less shocking for them (even though the fact that it's considered normal for women to be hit on is all kinds of disgusting in and of itself).

    But as the others said: a lot of the time, just thinking of any online situation as if it happened in real life is already good to inform you of what to do.

    Someone you never knew beforehand friends you? that's basically like going out with a stranger you just met on the street. You wouldn't do it in real life, so don't do it on facebook. Someone with a common friend befriends you? That's equivalent to someone in real life approaching you claiming to have a common friend. Take it up with your friend first before even considering adding them.
    If you got a creepy vibe off someone talking to you in real life, you would avoid them. So, on FB, you just remove them.
    Also, you wouldn't leave your photo album on a bus, so you'd better not leave it open on FB either.

    I think a lot of the time, it's just the word "friend" that is confusing. It makes you think of real-life friends, but online, it's just another word for "I clicked the button under this guy's name once".
     
  15. Ander Blue

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    Thank you all for your input -

    I feel like I could really take almost all of the help you've given me and apply it. The only thing I don't want to do is privatize my Facebook, for reasons that it will bring about even further negative consequences.

    I know that standing up for myself will be able to help a lot. I have a huge problem with confrontation, so this will be a hard one to achieve. It'll be wonderful though if I can manage to do it, I know I'll really be able to grow from it.

    To answer Jim's question about what I'm afraid of - I would have to say that it's that my outlook on people is changing. My previous conceptions of people are being thrown to hell. It may just be paranoia, but my ideas toward trust are starting to crumble at the edges.


    Tomorrow, I'm having lunch with my LGBT mentor. The last time we met, I was just about to go out clubbing for the first time and he warned me to stay safe and be careful with the people at the club. I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to talk to him about this and he'll have a good deal of useful input to put forward. I'll let yall know about it when I can.

    Thanks again everyone - I'm grateful for the progress I'm starting to make as a result of your assistance.
     
  16. Mirko

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    Glad the advice is helping!

    But why do you feel that you will get negative consequences if you make your FB more private? There shouldn't be any negative consequences. In some ways by taking control of your FB account (so to speak) it will help you to start achieving standing up for yourself.

    You can and should trust people. This is what makes you a good friend in return. At the same time, be selective as to whom you trust. There is nothing wrong with it because you need to feel comfortable with the people that you are trusting. Being selective about those you trust, doesn't take anything away from you. You are just being a bit more careful, which is a great quality to have as well.

    I think it is great that you are talking with your LGBT mentor about it. Take his advice on staying safe. Ask him if it is okay that you call him should you feel unsafe. Have someone on your phone list that you can call at any time should you need to talk to someone.

    (*hug*)
     
  17. Chip

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    The really nice thing about Facebook is that privacy controls are very granular; you can make select things (your profile, one group of pics, etc) public while making most other things private. And most people won't even know if you're keeping some of it private because they've done a pretty slick job of not even putting the buttons there for the functions that are private in most cases.

    I do recommend putting a non-you pic on as your public pic, and keeping the rest private. That alone will eliminate a huge portion of the creepers.
     
  18. joeyconnick

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    What is it again that you do for a living, Chip? Because you have this really incredibly negative and quite one-sided, in my view, take on the issues that "young people" deal with... and I wonder if a lot of that is related to how you come into contact with the people you come into contact with. I'm guessing it's like a lot of research on gay teens, which is becoming increasingly questioned over the fact that often the "sample" of gay youth that is being drawn from are gay youth who have accessed or are accessing some form of support services. So if it seems to certain people (e.g. you) like gay youth are particularly troubled or have particularly negative experiences, part of that (not all of it, obviously, it's not like I think gay youth have incredibly easy lives or anything) is likely a result of the fact that the gay youth we most readily identify as "gay youth" are the ones who are already seeking assistance. That is, we're only "finding" the people who are facing issues because the ones who aren't (which I would argue are at least as numerous, if not more so, than the ones who are) just don't "register."

    I have to say I think the fear underpinning this thread and some of the responses is completely and utterly unfounded. To conflate two strangers friending you on Facebook because they think you're hot and want to "get with you" with sexual predation is dangerous and really diminishes the experiences of people who have faced actual sexual predation. If you add someone on Facebook and they make you feel uncomfortable by expressing sexual interest you don't return, you block them. It's pretty simple. The fact they find you attractive doesn't make them monsters, although friending you without knowing you and then coming on to you definitely qualifies as questionable and kinda douchey, granted.

    As people have said, if you want to avoid 99% of the problem, don't add people you haven't met. Is that some huge kind of revelation? I have to say I've never understood people who aren't selective in who they befriend/hang out with, either online or off.

    Not even close! It's like talking to a stranger. Hardly the same thing as going out with them!

    Only if your friend randomly adds people as friends who they don't know. Can we PLEASE stop with the damaging hyperbole?

    I think perhaps that's the real issue at play: apparently a lot of people don't understand that a relatively few people don't have their best interests at heart (which if you ask me indicates a pretty huge dearth of common sense) and then the first time they encounter a situation where someone isn't all goodness and sugar and spice, they freak out, overrreact, and all of a sudden EVERYONE is a potential threat!

    The best way to avoid that kind of situation is to be discriminating. That doesn't mean being cynical--it just means being sensible.

    Of course everyone has a right to hit on anyone else if it's well-intentioned! What are you going to do? PUNISH people for being attracted to others? Force them to go through some kind of questionnaire if they're interested to determine if it's "appropriate" for them to express that interest?

    I think you might be mistaking "hit on someone" for "be a creep to someone." There's a huge difference between expressing legitimate interest because you like the person and pursuing someone who's made it clear they're not interested. In one situation, someone's curious. In the other, someone's pushy. The curious person is a decent person who understands that just because someone doesn't come out with a clear "no" doesn't mean they're super-enthused about the other person's interest. The pushy person, by contrast, attempts to exploit any ambiguity on the other person's part. There's a WORLD of difference between those two situations.

    I'm sorry, I'm not going to be limited in how I interact with other people because some people have trouble saying no or because some people have bad intentions . If people have trouble saying no, that's THEIR problem. It shouldn't be made into other people's problem. Talk about bringing everything down to the lowest common denominator: so because some people are shy, the rest of us should walk around on eggshells until we're given PERMISSION to express ourselves? I'm sorry, that's patently ridiculous. I don't think it's fair to make everyone else into coercive manipulators because certain people have trouble setting personal boundaries.

    And as for the few people with bad intentions: I don't think it's at all fair for the rest of us to be tarred with the same brush.
     
  19. Spectre

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    I couldn't agree more with what joeyconnick has said. To equate implicit intentions to "get in someone's pants" with sexual predation is absurd.

    So you added some friends of a friend to facebook and they expressed interest in you. Is that really such a crime? If something like this bothers you so much and you consider it sexual predation, simply DON'T DO IT. Set your profile to private, or create different groups for friends, acquaintances, or whatever, and limit their access. Or "don't add people you haven't met."

    I don't know what it is, but a lot of people now adays just aren't trusting. It's like they've become scared of strangers; all of the horror stories you see on the news or in movies reinforces this fear. Yes, it's important to err on the side of caution with people you don't know very well. But don't let it control your life. You could miss out on some great friendships.
     
    #19 Spectre, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  20. Shevanel

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    It's also not good to trust everyone. Especially people who you believe to be good friends with. You never know when people do unpredictable things to you that you don't want to happen ever. So while it is good to be trusting and be open to great friendships, you need to protect yourself too, and figure for yourself who you can trust. Just make sure you're correct about your decisions.