I realize I have to get over being so cynical about love and thought hearing other peoples experiences would help. The reason I am so cynical is because I denied my true self for so long. I always got confused when friends would say how happy they are with their girlfriends because I never got those euphoric feelings. I do know what I'm looking for in a guy but I still have this cynical feeling attached to love. I have to get rid of my inner a$$hole before I have a chance with any guy I like. I had some crazy idea that since I have come out to myself everything would be easy. I'm finding out it is not easy. I hid my true self from myself for so long I'm finding it difficult to be me. One thing I am figuring out is that the 5 stages of grief don't always go in order. Especially since I tried to jump to stage 5 without going through the other stages. That didn't work. I do at least know fully that I am gay and I don't want to deny it any longer. I have read tons of coming out stories and find some similarities with others experiences but I see that its possible I have a unique story. I say unique in reference to the details not the big picture. So if any gay men or women have dated the opposite sex before they realized they were gay I would like to hear what it was like the first time you dated someone of the same sex. I am committed to get over the hurdles in front of me. I know you guys can help me.
I can relate to this. So could my boyfriend. We were both married to women before realizing that we were gay and meeting each other. After we'd been together for a while, we both admitted to each other that the feelings we had for each other were very different and much stronger than we had ever had for our wives. And we both admitted that at the time we got married, we were pretty sure that we didn't feel the same about our wives as our wives seemed to feel about us, but we both sort of assumed that it was 'a guy thing'. We were wrong. It was an 'orientation thing'! We weren't going to feel the same way about our wives, because deep down we weren't attracted to the opposite sex. At the same time, we weren't allowing ourselves to be attracted to the same sex. But once we both overcame that hangup, it was like a lightning bolt or something hit us both. It was really powerful. NOW we know how our wives felt about us, because we feel that way about each other. Keep in mind that we were both in our mid 30s when all of this was happening to us. And we did have the experience of our 9 and 13 year marriages to compare to. But I'm sure you'll have the same kind of experience too once you really and truly give yourself permission to fall for another guy. It feels really good.
Everyone's story is unique. Way, way too true. It's difficult, but I'm working through this as well. You hate yourself for so long it's difficult to let go.
Whenever I tried to date women I always felt nervous and like all my actions were forced, and was never particularly excited about repeating the experience. The first time I dated a guy I had a smile on my face the entire time and was giddy the entire time (admittedly it was a good date), and I couldn't wait to do it again.
Not just that - you can revisit stages you thought you were done with. I'm coming out of a 15 year marriage. I've promised not to start dating until we are separated so I can't tell you about being with a guy. I can tell you intimacy with my wife produced nothing but anxiety until we finally gave up. I don't get the sense that it will be that way with a man.:icon_wink peace, Mike
The 5 stages often don't go in order exactly, and people also sometimes backtrack; they'll get to bargaining and jump back to denial, for example. But it's all part of how we process things. And if you think about it, the whole idea you could bypass part of the process is sort of silly; if that were possible, then the stages wouldn't really exist I can remember when I was dealing with some stuff in therapy that was pretty intense, saying to my therapist that I just wanted to be DONE with it and that I'd rather go through absolute hell for a month than drag it out for months... but for the most part, that's just not how it works with our psyche. I do think, as someone who also came out later in life, as you apparently did, that it often takes us longer to come out at 25 or 30 than it does at 13 or 16, because we've built up more protections and beliefs about ourselves that have to be reset and overcome. But it does become second nature in time. If you haven't seen the suggestions I've made elsewhere here, I very highly recommend "10 Smart Things Gay Men Can Do to Find Real Love" by Joe Kort, Ph.D. Although misleadingly named, it is a truly amazing book that will help you understand a lot about your process, why you hold onto certain beliefs, how the cynicism develops, and other aspects of your process.
That book looks very good. I read a few pages on Amazon and it is good stuff. Jim what you said about allowing yourself to be attracted to men makes a lot of sense to me. Even though I know I'm gay I still get defensive with myself when I see a cute guy. Instinctively when I think a guy looks good I immediately tell myself that thinking such things is wrong but I still give some guys a double or triple take. I am progressing though which is good. In relation to the five stages of grief I am currently in the depression stage. To get through this I am attacking this problem from a different angle. I have for most of my life been a people-pleaser. I had this impression that if someone was going to like me I would have to be totally agreeable and suppress my opinions. I attracted a lot of scum bags that would use me. I also got into drugs because of my desire to please. I thought they would get me through all my hang ups but that didn't work. Now that I'm not using I am forced to deal with these hangups. I have started to trust my intuition. I am pretty good at reading people I have found out. Also if someone asks me to do something I don't want to do I don't do it (within reason.) It feels good to agree with myself and stop second guessing myself all the time. I will be who I am regardless of others opinions. In time
I agree with this, and with what Jim said. I had boyfriends, and "friends" before dating the same sex. And even in highschool I can remember girls talking excitedly about their boyfriends and how amazing sex and other things were with them. I remember thinking "really? I don't see what the big deal is..." It was actually annoying when the boyfriends wanted sex. :dry: When I first was with a woman (at a party), I remember feeling a rush of euphoria that I'd not felt with guys. Even cuddling or holding her hand was like a 'zing' of electrical current that went through me. We didn't end up becoming a couple or even good friends but I remember feeling that and I've not looked back. My first girlfriend and I would likely still be together (if not for the 100s of km that seperate us). We're still in contact with one another and are on good terms. But honestly, I can say that's when I first felt whole in a relationship. Sure I liked the guys I was dating but "not that way" and it was more buddy buddy with them. Whereas with the same sex (women), it was best friends and more. So don't lose hope, you'll get those feelings in time. And Coming out isn't always easy, but if you have good friends they may surprise you with their tolerance and ability to at least try to understand. It may take time for them to 'warm up' to their version of the "new" you, but it'll come. :icon_bigg (*hug*)
This reminds me of my last relationship with a woman before I came out to myself. She always wanted to fool around and it annoyed me horribly. One day she sent me a text that she wanted me to come over and go down right when I got there. I'm sure any straight guy would have loved that but I got EXTREMELY annoyed. All I wanted to do was go over there and watch a movie then go home. She put two and two together before I did.
I'm with ya there - I couldn't believe how different it felt for me to be with a woman. It was like a light finally came on in my head saying, "Oh, THIS is how it's supposed to feel!" And here I was thinking I was the only one that honestly got annoying when my boyfriends wanted to do anything sexual - your comment about just wanting to watch a movie made me laugh - I think I had the same argument with my last boyfriend! I remember coming out to myself took the longest - 4 years if we count the first time I had sexual thoughts about a girl, 7 if we count the first time I wondered about girls instead of boys. I just decided to stop fighting one day - I was falling hard for my now-girlfriend, and confused as heck. But one day I just said to myself 'this is a positive feeling, why on earth are you fighting it?'. Slowly, I got used to the idea. I did a lot of research into the 'arguments' against homosexuality, and then the arguments against the arguments (I want to go to law school, is that painfully obvious?). Arming myself with arguments against both my OWN misgivings and others gave me the courage to start opening up. I think it comes down to figuring out what works best for you - for me, it was the confidence that I could hold my own in any discussion that arose. Weird, maybe, but it worked.
Well...at the advice of a very good friend...I've decided to jump back onto the Empty Closets website and see what's happening...and post some responses. My life has drastically changed (for better and worse) since the last time I posted. I'm a 38 year old gay man that has exited a marriage of close to 20 years, with 4 great kids to show for it. My wife and I remain good friends, even so far as exchanging relationship advice etc. and I'm now in a committed relationship (1 and a half years) with a great guy. Specific to this thread...the differences between dating women and men...I can 'second' almost all of what Jim has said. I loved my wife...but never got the impression I was 'in love' with my wife. I knew I had a physical attraction to men, however, never thought I would experience an 'emotional' connection with a man. Boy...was I wrong...the first time I had a man nuzzle my neck...or give me a kiss...I knew it 'was right'. And I actually said that out loud..."This just feels...right." So...there was for me certainly a difference. And on the other side of the fence...I think my (ex) wife sees that difference now with the person she is seeing as well...We had a wonderful friendship...but looking back...it (sadly) wasn't more than a friendship...(is it possible to have a friend be a soul mate ?) Again, it's a tough road to travel...but there are those out there who help and who are prepared to listen. I've become great friends with someone on the board...and we talk weekly, if not daily. So...I wish you luck in your travels!!! And...hello again...to all of those whom I spoke with (almost) a couple of years back
