I really fancy one of my best mates, I'm a closeted bi-sexual and as far as I know he's straight. He's had loads of girlfriends and often takes the piss cos I've not really had a proper gilrlfriend. What makes me wonder is that when we go out he quite often starts gay banter like pretending we're having a sexual releationship, and I cant help but join in. Sometimes I think there's a possibility that he might be bi but then other times he's so cold and tells me he doesn't like gays. He doesn't know I fancy him and I don't know whether or not to tell him, but he's all I can think about and its tearing me apart. Should I tell him and risk losing him as a friend?
This is hard, because I don’t know your friend, but what I think you really need to do is look at the possible scenarios and outcomes. Weigh the risks and benefits if you will: Scenario #1 You simply come out to your friend, telling him your bi, but not your feelings for him. This way you can see how he reacts and takes your sexuality. Outcomes: You find out how your friend really feels towards gays and bi's. If he is against your sexuality it is easier to convince him to accept you if he doesn’t know right away that you have feelings for him. If you said 'Im bi and I fancy you' that’s two things he has to come to terms with. Try and make it as easy for him as possible. On the other hand you could discover that he actually has nothing against your sexuality, or possibly that he is also bi. ::::::::::::::::::::::: Scenario #2 So your friend takes your sexuality well, or after a long process he manages to accept you for who you are. If he refuses to accept your sexuality, chances are he is straight, and you have to decide for yourself whether or not to be honest to him about your feelings. But for the sake of this scenario, he accepts your sexuality, so you decide to tell him how you feel. Outcome: You have quite a few possible outcomes in this case. First of all the worst case scenario is that after discovering your feelings, he is scared away and is somewhat hostile towards you. He tells your friends your secret and the friendship is ruined. (This has been known to happen, so don’t rule it out) Second is that he kindly rejects you, but understands that you cannot control your feelings, and simply explains to you that nothing will happen between you. There will probably be a sense of awkwardness for a while, but it will pass. Thirdly, you find out he is bi, however he doesn’t have feelings for you (believe it or not, but not all gay people screw each other. Imagine my surprise when I found out :icon_frow ) this is where your control comes in. Do you control yourself and your emotions? Or do you chase after him? Lastly, he tells you that he possesses the same feelings for you, and it’s the start of a relationship. ::::::::::::::::::::: Scenario #3 You don’t tell him and keep your feelings bottled up inside of you. Outcome: You either get over him, or your feelings for him continue to grow. Your frustration is fuelled on the fact that he is so close, yet you can't have him. You wonder what could be, how he feels about you. This could lead you to coming on to him, which brings back the previous outcomes. He either accepts or rejects you. Except this time there most likely wont be an 'in-between acceptance'. If he’s straight he'll most likely take offence at you coming onto him. If he's bi, then something happens between you two. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Only you can decide on the probability of each of these scenarios and outcomes. I don’t know him, so I can't decide. But you have to ask yourself if the worst case scenario is worth it. Is loosing his friendship worth a small chance at happiness? You’ve gotta decide that before making any decisions. I would really like to know what you finally decide to do, so keep us posted. -Dave
I think Dave has summed that up really well. As he says, only you can decide based on how you think he may react and how you think you could handle the worst-case outcome. I would be tempted to suggest looking at Scenario #1. But you need to choose your moment carefully - perhaps when the two of you are together but not where it could be seen as a come-on (such as in one of your bedrooms). Can you tell us more about him and you, and how you think he could react? Incidently, I do know what you are going through. Paul.
I agree with Paul...both in his suggestion of what to do and his summation of Dave's post - I doubt you could improve on his (Dave's) analysis of the situation.
Ok, the thirs scenario is not one I would recomend. I will not tell you the story of my life, but it's enought to say that I'm in a situation similar to yours, only I'm 18 and the guy I like is 15. It's illegal where I live, besides I think it's moraly wrong. And he is my instructor in a martial arts class, so It's quiet impossible. That's why I was forced to take the scenario number 3. And It's not working, I'm on the edge, I don't know what to do, I can't focus on anything cause he keeps poping into my head in every situation, even in the middle of a math test... I mean... what could be more turn-off than a math test?
Okay, 18 and 15 is problematic, especially if it's illegal in your jurisdiction, but you really think it's immoral? When he's 20 and you're 23, is it immoral then? Does is automatically become moral when he turns 18? If you truly feel it's wrong, then how do you handle feeling that way (forget the sexual frustration)? Do you go around thinking you're a bad person? BTW, if he's 15 and you're 18, how did he end up being your instructor? In Canada, our age of consent laws handle the case if the older person is in "a position of trust or authority" (i.e. instructor, coach, babysitter, doctor, teacher, etc.) but I don't think I've ever heard of the younger person being in that position. As for the immediate problem, you not being able to concentrate... it sounds like a mini-obsession based on the fact that the guy is "forbidden fruit" in your mind. It's probably not being helped by you feeling your feelings for him are immoral. Do you have anyone in real life to talk to about this? Someone who wouldn't be judgmental, who would just listen? Keeping things bottled up does make them have a tendency to make them get stronger and stronger. If you had someone to talk to about it, it might not stay so pressurised. If that doesn't work, my best guess is that the only thing that will help is either time or switching instructors/dropping the class. That sounds extreme, maybe, but if you're seeing him regularly I'm sure that's not helping how you're feeling.
I did... for a time. The moral issue I'm bringin up is the fact that he is still a kid, and the age difference between 15 and 18, and 20 and 23 is not the same. Perhaps it's the same number, but in terms of maturity it's not the same at all. I used to think of him as a kid, until I found out about this crush... and the thought that I could fall for someone that I consider a kid is quiet disturbing. Anyway, I don't think I'm a bad person, I just think that if he is gay, then he should come to terms with it in his own time, and it's not for me to force him. And if he isn't, well... there is really nothing I can do about it. But if he isn't gay, and let's say I seduce him, and we end up together, and then he just finds out he wasn't really gay, but just confused... It would leave a scar on both, him and me, that wouldn't easyly heal. That's why I feel it would be wrong. Oh, yeah... it's actually quiet funny. While I'm obviously superior to him in thinking ability, physics, abstract concepts... it just so happens that instead of spending the last five years of his life investigating those things, reading, learning from his mom and older brother, and trying to enter one of the best schools in the city, he spent them practicing taekwondo. So he got his 1st degree black belt about six months ago. Last may I decided that since for the last three years of my life I hadn't been doing any sports I had to do something. So a friend took me to a class and I liked it a lot. It's been almost a year now, and I'm a violet belt. Thus, if you do the math he's much superior to me when it comes to taekwondo. So he has the capacity, responsibilty and right to teach me. That's how he ended up being my instructor. Actually, my normal classes are with the owner of the place, he's 6th level now. But since I usually go earlyer to practice a little bit, and to realx, I met him, and if he is teaching a class he always invites me to join... so that's why I attend to his classes. BTW, that's why I'm such a nerd... I do, and It really helped me a lot to talk about my entire situation with her. Actually, my need to have someone to talkt to about this is the main reason i started to come out. About seeing him regularly... well I guess you are right. It doesn't really help. But as I explained above, he is not my usual instructor... It just happens that I'm there when he starts a class and he usually either asks me to join the class or to help him leading the group. Specially when there are lower ranks that need to learn some basics. I am in the leadership program, so when I get my 1st degree black belt I will be able to teach classes like him, and most likely it will make it easyer for me to get my 2nd degree as well. Anyway, the fact is that I enjoy it too much... and I don't think I'll drop it. I tried to limit the contact we had, by starting to kick the bag, or starting to practice a form or perhaps with a weapon just a few minutes before the end of his class. So we wouldn't get a chance to talk in between classes... but that didn't really work... oh... well. I guess I should start to study a little bit instead of spending the whole day over there.... *Thinks about saturday's algebra test and runs away to pick up the books*
Well, not to diss you or anything but if he's not gay, you can't seduce him. If he's really unsure about himself/doesn't have a strong mental foundation, maybe (but only maybe) you could essentially force your own will on him, but a) if he's such a martial arts guy, I doubt he'd lack the willpower to be succeptible to that and b) you don't sound at all like someone who would remotely force someone to do something they weren't into. The whole notion that people can be "recruited" into being gay is bunk. I mean, maybe if gay people developed some kind of brainwashing program using mind control techniques or something, kinda like the Catholic church but otherwise, yeah... you can't make someone gay because you're into them. I mean, did someone make you gay? Do you know anyone who claims they were "turned" gay? What's why you're such a nerd? My definition of nerd doesn't include people who train in the martial arts. Well whether he's gay or not, it certainly sounds like he likes you or respects you at least.
Ok, this just got out of control. I know I can't turn him gay. Although, If my timing is correct I could be able to confuse him enough for him to want to try it at least. Of course, that's something I wouldn't do. Not to him, not with that purpose. Manipulating people is a hobbie for me. And there are some boundrays for that as well. As for being a nerd: I am a nerd mainly because I spent mosf of my last seven years intrested in math, physics, geometry, trigonometry, algebra, etc. The martial arts thing ... oh well. It is a lame story. I started because I wanted to get closer to my friends. There was a group of them that were practicing, and I decided to join them. We actually became closer as a group. Then we disbanded, one moved away, the other got a girlfriend, two of them just stopped comming, and so... there I was... alone again. However I found this martial art very interesting... and thus I decided to continue with it. I am now past the point of dropping. I'm on the race for my first degree, and I made good friends in this place. And I feel much MUCH better since I started. Still, I am a nerd, and here is when today's story comes in. Ok, to answer you last question I have today's story... I arrived earlyer (as usual) and watched him start a class (with younger children) Then the class got a little out of control. There were about twenty of them. And just him and a lower(lower than me) rank instructor teaching. So he asked me to join in and lead a small group of children (now, I usually lead groups of grown ups. It's quiet different. But I still managed to get the job done and they learnt a little bit, which was really comforting for me) Now, when I arrived he seemd extremely happy to see me. I was wondering why. However I got through the class just fine, and then practiced a little bit myself. Then when most of the kids were gone he asked me to help him with something. It turns out that he has a math test tomorrow, and he didn't study at all. Now... it's not a secret that I'm a BFN, so he knew I would be able to help him. I actually did, and I think he understood what I explained to him. We were, of course, interrupted by so many things, and we weren't exactly in the best place to do that kind of stuff. But then, after our class (when the higher rank comes and we all turn into students... XD) Now, over here there aren't tutoring programs. So if someone doesn't understand, they must pay a teacher to help them. Luckyly I've never had to do this. Him: do you know how many times I went to a particular teacher? me: nope, how many? him: once, and for one hour. me: lol him: It just isn't right to make my mom pay, or even to pay for it myself. I mean, I don't understand because I was lazy during the year and now I find I did have to study, but I didn't. me: LOL (even harder). *small pause* Look. I know I'm gonna regret this, and I probably won't be able to offer you the same next semester. But since this semester I don't have that much to study, I could help you. I mean, I really like teaching math, and I have plenty of documentation (books, notebooks, folders, etc). So if you want, just tell me. I'm free all day (and I spend it all here... XD) him: yeah... I might just take you up on that one me: no problem, just let me know. Now... it got all out of hand. Fortunately, I told him that he could bring anyone he wanted, as long as I didn't have 40 15yo in my living room asking: how do I do this??? I meant a small group. And well... he mentioned a girl (damn!) and I told him to bring her if he wanted. That I didn't have any problem. Now... in part I really want to help him. But I know it will make it even harder on my. I mean, to be with him in the same room, sharing the thing I love the most (math, algebra in fact), and him looking at me the same way I look at him while he teaches a class. Our instructor-student / first degree-violet belt implies a certain mutual respect. However I think that this would be taking it to the next level. Him respecting me not because of my abilities in martial arts, but because of my abilities in my area of expertise... Again, I am trying to build a friendship with him. So by now I would expect he would like me, or at least respects me beyond the martial arts. Ahh, my head is going to explode!!!
I'm not sure that's a very good hobby to have. *raises hand* What the heck is a BFN? Okay, you're crazy because you just set yourself up for major torture! And if you're going to put yourself through it, why oh why would you tell him he could bring people along?! At least use the situation to get alone time with him. My advice would be to tell him you can't tutor more than one person at a time if you're going to go through with the tutoring thing.
Indeed, not a very good one. But it comes in handy from time to time... BFN stands for BIG FREAKING NERD. Ohhh, I actually hope he will come alone by his own choice. But I can't put that limit... I don't think that would help me. Besides, I think that If i have someone else to focus in It will be less hard on me. Anyway, as I said... I'll let it happen. And tonight I'll let you know how it went. I'm going to a class right now... (*hits himself with a stick while thinks: IDIOT!*)
I'll start a new thread with this subject. It's getting WAY off topic. http://emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?p=719#post719
sorry i have'nt replied sooner thanks for the advice everyone, tonight i finally had the gutts to tell my mate that im bisexual, was very hard, i had to have a few pints before i could do it but i did and i feel better for it. we went for a drink tonigt and in his car on the way home i took a deep breath and told him i was bi, was funny how it seemed like someone else was talkin and i was just listening in on the conversation. Anyway i told him i was bi and that he was the first person i had told and he took it really well, he was obviously shocked but he told me that he was fine with my sexuality and that he wouldn't go behind my back and tell anyone, it was as good as i'd hoped i suppose, at least i know now ive got a mate i can talk to if i need to. As u all advised i didn't tell him completely how i feel about him but the ball is in his court now if he wants to try anything he knows my sexuality. Anyway i feel great tonight and am happy for the first time for ages, thanks again for the advice every one, ttyl.
Yeah... comming out will do that... it's releasing a great deal of pressure that you are holding in for ages... and being able to do that gives you some sort of peace of mind.
Glad to hear it went so well and that the advice you got here was good. And that's cool that you're happy. Happy is good; happy is fun.
