Its kind of hard for me to explain what I'm going through, but hopefully this post will be clear enough. I consider myself a Christian, but one with a very different view of faith than that from what I was raised. I don't regard the Bible as being a history book, a science book or even theologically consistent. I believe some of the teachings in Biblical books on women, slavery and genocide are abhorrent. At the same time, I believe these stories are part of a long chain of God-lovers whom are relating their experiences and/or those of the community and how they relate to God. I also believe all truth is God's truth and that while faith is believing in something unseen...good faith bears good fruit. If a doctrine(ban on interracial marriage for example) causes pain then it is unjust, ungodly and should be discarded. I say this, because my faith is important to me...and important to my identity. Even though, I often consider rejecting my faith, be it because of my difficulty reconciling a loving God to all the suffering in the world or becuase I feel like I strayed from my roots(I experience a lot of guilt for this) I find myself unable to give it up. I have suffered both hardship and blessings because of my faith, and through all these trials it has just become ingrained in my identity. I'm sorry this post is getting long, so I'll try to get to the point. Even though, I believe these things...I want to have a faith that reflects Jesus(otherwise I would not be a "Christian"). Anyway, I'm currently writing an exegetics paper on a chapter in Romans. When I was searching for materials, I wanted to make sure I got diverse view points and so I read a lot of literature. Part of that had me reading what a lot of authors had to say on Romans 1, one of the famous clobber passages. Now, its not like this passage or the interpretations are new to me and I know there is diversity in opinions amongst scholars. But its hard for me to not to find the conservative scholars persuasive here, whether it be because of my upbringing or just honesty. Of course, I'm no scholar so me deciding the "correct" interpretation is like me deciding the correct date for a intermediary fossil between man and ape. Still, if I accept their interpretation(even with my willingness to discount harmful scripture), I can't help but feel that if their right then God's love is not extended to me. The passage quite explicitly states that God gives men over to their shameful lusts(eg: homosexuality) as a consequence of their idolatry and/or sin. Basically the punishment for sinning was to have an even greater desire towards the same sex. Considering my story(and all of yours) it just makes me feel God must hate gay people(predestination anyone?) if he's going to reject our cries for help and instead punish us for our "sin." by increasing the desire to love someone of the same sex. And how is love even a bad thing? Now, my sexuality is a non negotiable at this point(does having a non negotiable even permit me to be an honest Christian?) too much good has come from it. I have no desire to go back to that world of pain. But I don't know what to do. For a long time, I had basically disregarded this issue as being a nonissue and that God's grace and love is what is true not these doctrines, but my doubts have really just overwhelmed me today. It simply hurts. I actually broke down crying in the library over this and I'm not one that normally cries over anything. If I reject my faith, Its going to be really painful for me. And to be honest, I'm not sure I could go that route honestly. In all likelihood, I would simply be choosing to not follow a God that I believe hates me. And that in itself, would be a painful route without resolution. What I really want is to just embrace God's grace and love but I feel incapable of doing that. I know this is rather long, and I apologize. In terms of resolution, I've considered talking to someone about this. However, I wouldn't know who to go to. I'm afraid of discussing this with my mother. She still is working through my sexuality and how one can be a gay Christian. I really don't want to make this process more difficult for her. My dad doesn't accept homosexuality as being ok(although we have a pretty good relationship). I guess there is my grandparents(both who accept me at least as well if not better than my mother. But I've never really had a religious conversation of this type with them. One the other hand I'm afraid of going to my friends. I don't really know how they will react and have similar fears(although these may or may not be justified) in discussing it with some of my close friends. If I'm not affirming myself, I don't know how many of them would actually affirm me. Outside of that I've thought about working through this with a professor but am afraid that might cross boundaries, and a counselor but my last experience with a school counselor wasn't all that great. Do these fears seem well founded are am I just being hetereophobic?
ok bear with me for this cause i am no expert, nor am i a christian. I am a spiritual person who does not believe in organized religion but does believe in some sort of higher power for reasons like these passages in the bible that seem to try and rule the lives of people instead of guiding them. Don't get me wrong i think the bible is very useful as a moral guide in many ways, however something like the bible and all that is in it has to be read in context with when it was written. Back then those people where worried about keeping the world populated and the family line going. it was written by a bunch of men who picked and chose what they wanted different writings in it based on the sociological and cultural aspects of society during that time. On top of that those people who wrote that where not even remotely educated on homosexuality, especially how it is very likely (and now widely accepted in the scientific community) that homosexuality is partly having to do with genetics. Instead they just had what it looked like to them (the majority who where straight) and what they where told. In fact most of what they wrote has been twisted over time to further discriminate against homosexual people who where only hated more as time progressed from the time of it's release. The Bible has many significant and important lessons and ideas that hold water today, however it is the word of man, written by man, translated by man, and twisted by man with all their biases, imperfections, and human flaws. You can be gay and be a man of faith, but that faith needs to be one where you know and you are faithful and can feel that god loves you and that there is nothing wrong with you. If anything that feeling that you have had about it is sort of like god speaking to you letting you know it is ok, while these archaic bible passages are the word of man. That passage hardly bowls over all those of love and acceptance preached in the bible, and we know that this is the way we are and it can not be helped. And frankly if god refuses to accept me the way he made me and the way that i am he is no loving god in my eyes, but i know that whatever or whoever god is, that i am accepted, loved, normal, and natural. I know that with all my heart and have faith in that and i am not even a religious person on a lighter note 3 cheers for if all the gays do end up in hell cause we will have one kick as hot gay dance party for a very long time (!)
I appreciate your reply. I completely respect this viewpoint, it just isn't mine. I don't believe the Bible is meant to rule people's lives. I believe it can help be a guide for relating to God. But I'm having trouble sticking to my philosophy with this passage for some reason. This wasn't a struggle until recently(although it had been a major one in the past). I agree completely. Biblical scholarship says the same thing. The fundamentalist view of Scripture, as I understand, despite being strongly associated with Christianity isn't viewed that positively in scholarship. I wouldn't completely agree with that characterization but there is some truth here, in my book. I don't know. Paul did have some understanding of homosexuality. Not necessarily in the modern sense but it was there. That said, the reason for objecting to homosexuality doesn't necessarily relate to knowledge of the issue but rather the principal it violates regardless of the depth of understanding. Thanks for this. I tend to agree. I know that too. But thats part of the problem for me. In the scenario, that God doesn't accept me as I am and isn't loving....well thats a hard scenario for me to deal with. That really has a lot to do with this crisis of faith I'm going through. Haha agreed. If there is a hell(well I tend to follow a form of universalism) and all the gay people are there, well then itll be awesome. :icon_bigg
Have you talked to the MCC? They have been through the whole theology and their interpretation, which seems very sound and reasonable and NOT reaching for something to justify their position, interprets scripture in a way that is accepting and supportive of gays and lesbians. I'm not familiar enough with any of the theology to be able to talk intelligently about it, but I'd suggest talking to an MCC pastor. There's probably an MCC church somewhere within an hour or two's drive from you.
I hadn't really thought about that. I haven't ever bothered to go to one in the past because of the drive(which costs money) and I kind of thought I was past this but I could see that sort of environment being helpful. The environment/any potential conversations with the pastor may help me get past the guilt. Thanks for the suggestion! Its kinda of a funny thing to be proud of who I am but feel guilty for rejecting a system of thinking that would lead me to being ashamed.
Jonah, It's been a few years since my Romans class but here goes. I'll begin with Romans 1:22-25: Paul isn't talking about mere sex or homosexuality here. Paul is speaking against idolatry, the worship of God's creatures in place of God. In this case, it seems that this particular form of idolatry includes homosexual acts. This is the only way Paul can conceive of homosexuality - as part of idolatrous worship. We can't ask him what he thinks about sex between two men in a loving, committed relationship because such an idea never crosses his mind. Remember, too, that Paul says that slavery is okay so it is also possible that he has this wrong as well. As far as the authority of the bible, my former presiding bishop was fond of saying that "the Word of God is a person, not a book." The bible as we have it did not come together until the 4th century. Something else (the holy Spirit perhaps?) drove the church before then. I also find it helpful to look at the 2nd creation story in Genesis 2: I have always found it interesting that the suitable helper for Adam was not a foregone conclusion. God tried out different creatures as Adam's partner and finally created woman. This, I believe, implies a certain mystery and ambiguity to human sexuality. In the end, however, it is a leap of faith. On the one hand, we can understand the varying aspects of human sexuality as a deviation or corruption of being made in the image of God. On the other hand, we can believe these expressions of sexuality as being part of the mystery of being made in the image of God. I'm a mystery man myself. Much of our experience and relationship with God is messy and hard to pin down. Why wouldn't we expect sexuality to be as well? In the end, I prefer a different verse from Paul, from 1 Corinthians 15:10: "By the grace of God I am what I am, and God's grace for me has not been in vain." Though difficult, your searching and struggling are appropriate and will be fruitful. In the meantime, (&&&) Peace,
I don't have time to search the archives, but the blog Slacktivist is written by a very LGBT-friendly evangelical Christian. Fred Clark is most famous for his theological and literary smackdown of the Left Behind books, but has plenty to say on theology in general if you look around. And plenty of the commenters are happy to talk about stuff, too, and a number have extensive training in Christian theology. You don't really have to worry about being off topic so long as you're polite. The basic view taken, though, is that every Biblical passage has to be read in the context of the entire canon. And the basic theme, Clark argues, is to do unto others as you would have others do unto you (the most important moral issue facing society, he says, is love). If a passage seems contrary to that message, it's probably either not translated correctly, or is simply not that important to what God wants from you. Everyone else should check it out, too. Amazing blog.
Another suggestions, if you haven't seen it, is to get Prayers for Bobby (about 3 bucks on itunes). It deals with a very conservative Christian mother coming to terms with her son's gay sexuality, and how she reconciled her beliefs. It isn't heavy on theology, but it's a powerful film anyway.
well a great film to watch would be "The bible told me so", its great and it faces the dilemma by gay christians and their families. It can be viewed via youtube and there is also a copy here in this site somewhere too.
I'm beginning to believe that interpretations of the bible fall under sort of a statistical bell curve. The majority accept a relatively mainstream interpretation that reconciles with a moderate and compassionate God, and where the lessons taught are more through metaphor and story than through an analysis of the literal words and passages that are used. The problem is with the extremes of that bell curve, particularly the orthodox or conservative extreme. Their views tend to be literal and strict, and always coming down on the side of judgment and punishment. And like all media play in the world, they get the most publicity which leads us to believe that there is a disproportionate skewing of the bible against things such as homosexuality. There are more than enough passages in the bible that suggest that we are made in God's image, and thus if we are born gay then God made us that way and that must be His will. Part of the problem may come in latching on to one or two verses in the bible that on their own may seem to support one extreme position or the other, but when viewed in the larger context of the message of God these verses are put in their place and no longer carry that scathing sense about them. It's like much of any messaging in the media; they pick and choose sentences from a person's speech or discussion and voila, you have something that on its own sounds harsh or extreme. But when you go back and view the entire speech or hear the whole discussion, you see them in a different context, making a bigger argument. That's one reason you won't often find me throwing single verses of scripture around to support one side or another; I consider that to be somewhat deceitful.
