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Church, Broken & Empty

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by TroubledRyan, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. TroubledRyan

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    Hey, I had another topic somewhat like this...and maybe I should have put this there, but I can use some help.

    Now I just feel empty, the bible does say it's a sin to be gay, as does it say that many things are sins. But people always sin, its human nature, but it is different to live in sin correct? Worse to do so?

    I have been talking to my christian friend, she was very accepting even though she is a hard core christian. She says that it is a sin, but she beleives that if you love god you will go to hevan. Me and her are going to talk tomarrow, cus I just feel really down right now, I don't want to burn in hell, I don't want to be away from family, I don't want to losse everything I love...that though alone hurts and makes me cry.

    So I don't know what to do...I feel so empty. If it is a sin to be gay then maybe it is not natural to feel urges for the same sex... Maybe you are suspose to like the oppisite sex, but I do not...I don't know what to do. Maybe I can just like nothing, it would suck but I wouldn't have to worry or freak out about burning in hell. Rather control an urge rather then burn for it I suspose...
     
  2. Shevanel

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    Ryan, watch For The Bible Tells Me So.

    You're not going to go to Hell because you are gay. It ISN'T a sin actually.

    I can help you with that much.
     
  3. RedState

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    Well, Lord, if you go to Hell for half the stuff the Bible says you will go to Hell for then I'm gonna be on the Board of Directors of that joint.

    I just feel sorry for the person in line behind me on judgement day.
     
  4. TroubledRyan

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    I have watched it.

    I'm not looking for a way around what the bible says, I'm facing it head on. I want this over with cus I feel like shit, maybe my friend is right. Maybe if I do love him he will love me and I still will go to heven. I don't know but I feel rather shitty and comfused.
     
  5. RedState

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    Well, it's natural for people to question their faith and their "place" so to speak during times in their lives...especially for those of us that are gay.

    Do I take everything in the Bible literally? No. Do I believe that the spirit of it is true, yes. And the spirit of it is one of forgiveness. Some people believe in a vengeful and wrathful God..I don't. I believe in a loving and caring God, one that does accept all people as long as they accept themselves...and accept Him, and invite Him into your life.

    I know I am the LAST person to be talking about this...I mean I hardly ever go to Church (mainly because I'm too hungover from the night before) but that doesn't mean I don't have my spiritual beliefs. Yeah, I'm gay, but that doesn't mean that I believe that I'm damned for all time. I honestly believe that.

    It may not be much...but I hope my ramblings help a little
     
  6. Shevanel

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    Man made the Bible. Not God.

    If you believe God made you, then God made you the way he wanted you to be.

    If you are truly wanting to be true to your faith with God, then you'd realize that God's love supersedes everything, especially the Bible which was more of a guideline that got distorted. It's also outdated. Just remember that he does love you.
     
  7. TroubledRyan

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    Thanks you guys, both of you.
    you both helped me alot, I was just freaking out alittle, just really sad nd stuff :frowning2:
     
  8. Chip

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    It's important to remember that in the 1950s and early 1960s, Jerry Falwell (uber right-wing evangelist, for those of you too young to remember) was claiming that the Bible spoke against integration of black people into society... public schools, water fountains, etc.

    In a similar vein, many religions used to preach that a woman's place was in the home, taking care of her husband and kids. Needless to say, you don't hear many churches putting forth that message either.

    The point i'm making is... people infer and interpret things in the Bible in many different ways, and as society matures socially, the church has traditionally updated its view on things The MCC Church and some of the more liberal mainstream churches have changed the way they interpret scripture to be more inclusive.

    So your basic instincts -- that being gay (which includes being a "practicing" gay) and being Christian aren't incompatible, are correct. Your friend has the right idea. The people who don't are simply ignorant bigots.
     
  9. Lexington

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    The Bible is pretty sketchy when it comes to homosexuality, mainly because "homosexuality" wasn't really defined as a separate entity until long after the Bible reached its more-or-less current form. So you're about as likely to see a full-on discussion about homosexuality in the Bible as you will...oh, trains. Or radio.

    The Biblical verse that most often gets highlighted in regards to homosexuality is Leviticus 18:22. Our friend King James reads it like this: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Straightforward, right? Guys with girls, good. Guys with guys, bad. (Although lesbians seem to get a pass here.)

    Not so fast.

    Jump back a few verses to Levitcus 18:6. And you'll see a long litany of "who not to have sex with"s. Most aren't surprising - fathers, mothers, grandmothers, and so forth. Once you hit verse 19, it moves off of incestual pairings, and moves into forbidding sexual congress with your neighbor's wife (got it) and menstruating women. Already, that puts gay sex on par with straight sex during menstruation, which I don't often hear Rev Phelps getting too upset about.

    But there's more. The next verse is weird. It forbids the ritual sacrifice of children to a pagan god named Molech. (Most people don't have any issue with that.) It also warns against blaspheming against Yahweh. And THEN comes the verse about man lying with man.

    So what? Well, a burning question seems to be - why is the gay sex law separated out? Why isn't it lumped in with the others? It's not entirely clear - it's sometimes hard to find out precisely what our earliest texts were saying exactly - but the prevailing theory among Biblical scholars is that "men lying with men" was part of the pagan child-killing ritual. We don't know that for a fact, of course, but it would explain why the topic shifts there.

    Also, Leviticus means "concerning the Levites". The book is mainly priestly laws and rituals. And a ton of the book is given over to ritual purity. In order for a priest to "correctly" perform his duties, he needed to be "ritually clean". This has become less of a focal point in modern Christianity, although parts of it still remain - the priest washing his hands before blessing the Eucharist, people going to confession and doing penance to "cleanse their sins". The word in that verse which is translated as "abomination" is the Hebrew word "toeyvah". This is the same word attached to other things in Leviticus that you no doubt have seen others reference - eating shellfish, wearing clothes made of mixed fibers, picking up sticks on Saturday. With these more benign activities, the translations are usually kinder. You'll usually see "unclean" rather than "abomination". :slight_smile:

    My personal belief is this. You've given your sexuality a lot of thought. You didn't simply think that "liking guys" would be a hoot. The fact that you've struggled with this, and continue to do so, indicates to me that you really ARE gay. And if so, it wasn't a mistake. God doesn't screw up on the assembly line. You're gay because He made you gay. And no God worth the name would make someone gay, and then prevent him from doing anything sexual. That doesn't mean that I think God thinks it's groovy for everybody to boink anybody they want, mind you. But if God really wanted you to be straight, he woulda made you straight. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  10. Fintan

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    I don't know if this helps or not, but the Bible is pretty clear that everyone is a sinner and a sin is a sin (you don't get into heaven if you committed LOTS of BIG sins or just a single little sin, they're all sins). The only way to go to Heaven is to either be totally sin-free (which is humanly impossible) or be saved through Jesus Christ. And how are we saved through Christ? By believing in him, and believing that he died for us so that he could defeat death and save us.

    That's the big picture, as the rest of the Bible teaches how to live like Christ and improve our lives.

    Also, when people talk about homosexuality they always point to Leviticus, like Lexington mentioned, as homosexuality rarely appears at all in the Bible, and almost never outside of Leviticus (apparently it wasn't one of God's priorities). Anyway, Leviticus happens to be one of the first 5 books of the Bible (Genesis, Leviticus, Exodus, Numbers & Deuteronomy), and these first five books also happen to be the ONLY part of the Bible to which we don't know author. So while the rest of the Bible is said to be inspired by God through His Prophets/Apostles (David, Soloman, Moses, John, Matthew etc), we don't know who wrote the first five books.

    Does that give you piece of mind?

    If that doesn't -- in my humble opinion, I can't believe that the God of the New Testament (Jesus) would condemn me for something that I can't change. The Bible teaches that God loves us unconditionally -- no matter what we do and all we must do to be saved is believe.
     
  11. Inhuman

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    You remind me of me about.. well either 10 months ago or 3.5 years ago. I Was a Christian for 90% of my life and I spent SOSOOOO many hours trying to understand it all. I'm an atheist now BUT I want you to listen to what I have to say, because I'm going to talk to you on the premise that 1) God exists and 2) He's the God of the Bible, and the Bible has some authority.

    In other words I'm going to speak as if I believe what you believe(even though I'm not trying to trick anyone), so that we're on the same page and you'll be comfortable with listening to what I have to say. :icon_wink

    Advice beginning, now

    If you consider all the innate(unchangeable, un-chosen) qualities that are found in different people, you can understand that God seems indifferent to these differences. There are good things, bad things and neutral things. Some people are equipped with a PERFECT memory whereas everything that they learn, they remember flawlessly until they die: that's good
    Some people are mentally handicapped and will have more difficulty enjoying life to the fullest: that's bad
    Some people have 6 toes on one foot: that's not really good or bad.

    There are countless examples but for now we can understand that there are positive negative an neutral things that occur in people. As a Christian I came the conclusion that God wouldn't put negative programming into anyone. But with this assumption, it's unbalanced to assume He is responsible for the positive variables, and not the negative ones. Do you see where I'm going with this?

    What I'm saying is that God must be indifferent to any diversity within humans. Including homosexuality.

    Ok, I know what you're thinking. Recent proof(not evidence; PROOF!) that homosexuality is most often not-chosen and unchangable within individuals has force anti-gay people to draw a distinction between "homosexuals who are celibate", and "practicing homosexuals"(aka gay people who aren't afraid to love who they're designed to love)

    But this is where we can use logical deduction: Do you worship a God who stands by while people are deepy hardwired to the depths of their brain to share physical and romantic affection with a selection of people who happen to share a specific biophysical characteristic(gender), but is offended when they follow through on this?
    Think about that.

    Think about this: Why would the creator of the universe, we're talking the whole Earth billions of times bigger than you, the Sun a million times bigger than the Earth, and the whole universe, infinitly greater than the Sun, why would the most powerful entity in existence be offended because ONE of the people in your relationship . . . is the wrong gender? Ever consider that? Not even both, but just one of you would be the "wrong gender".

    Think about this: Why should it be morally permissible for some people to be with a man, but immoral for someone else to be with a man. Is God petty enough to deny you the right of loving a male because you're a boy not a girl? That's sexism, aka discrimination. Therefor it obviously wouldn't be practiced by God.

    Think about this: followers of Christianity have forbid inter-racial marriage as vehemently as gay marriage for a LONG time, but they changed their tune, and very few people will tell you that inter-racial love is immoral in this present day.
    Can't you see it's the same for homosexuality? Eventually they're all just see it's not wrong and it never has been.

    Think about this: Immoral action have negative repercussions: that's why they're immoral. What are the direct negative outcomes that are guaranteed to come with any an all homoromantic or homosexual interaction? There are none.

    At this point I'm sure logic is screaming in your ear: BEING GAY ISN'T WRONG, but your emotions are telling you: YES IT IS!
    No matter how compelling my arguments are, you can't believe them somehow, am I right?
    That's because the concept of homosexuality being wrong is based on emotions, NOT LOGIC.

    You have to listen to Logic. You'll think God is pissed because you're gay but that's just your old emotions. Logic is based on unbiased evaluation of facts and evience, and emotions are based on thin air.

    I hope that today, you understand that homosexuality is not immoral.

    I hope that one day you'll see as clearly as I do that homosexuality is morally parallel to heterosexuality.
     
    #11 Inhuman, Aug 25, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  12. MagicalMatt

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    I could give you every explanation you need to here. I could tell you about incorrect translations and logical fallacies galore, and you'd still have doubts.

    So from someone who has studied the Bible as a scholar and who has also come out as gay, don't worry about it. Just...if you need an explanation, find one, but don't ever think you're going to "hell" for liking dudes.

    Big Love
     
  13. Inhuman

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    Comment #2: based on the premise that Christianity is false
    a) There's no evidence for God, so why accept the claim that He exists with no evidence to make you say so?
    b) The emotions you have telling you Christianity is true are replicated by followers of every other religion, and shouldn't count in your evaluation of which religion is true
    c) Through scientific evaluation we can understand that the chances of God existing is EXTREMELY slim
    d) even if God does exist, he/she/it is almost certainly not the Christian God
    e) The Bible is scientifically, historically and logically falsified, and is internally contradictory, and has no authority over your life
    f) The human race has existed for 150,000 years or so, and Christianity has only existed for about 4000 years
    g) the concept of Adam and Eve is absolutely impossible, and has been proven false through genetic observation
    h) Multiple religions existed before Christianity an developed independently of Christianity, and Christianity developed independently of them

    Therefor Christianity is false, therefor homosexuality isn't wrong.
     
  14. Nitro

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    The Bible is a book by many authors. How much of it did Jesus write?

    I am not saying that you should throw the whole thing out, or pick and choose verses at a whim but be glad your god has given his followers some brains lest they pull out such lovely passages as Deuteronomy 13 including:

    (emphasis added)

    Yeah, the whole chapter is about your responsibility to kill people. In the four included gospels Jesus criticized the Pharisees a lot, and it can usually be summed up as "you talk the talk but neither walk the walk or respect the spirit of the word." Does this remind you at all of certain bigoted priests?

    What do I think? Then just as now there were people who were ready to write nasty things about gays while confusing issues such as pederasty, pagan worship practices (as Lex previously mentioned), the practice sodomizing of vanquished armies etc. This combined with the "ewwwwww butt sex" factor was probably more than enough for certain authors to give us a bad rep.
     
  15. Chip

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    Please, everyone, let's keep this thread focused on the OP's needs. We're dangerously close to getting involved in a discussion as to whether religion makes sense or is logical.

    That isn't the argument here. It is logical to the OP and something that is important to him. Let's just make sure we stay respectful to his own beliefs and needs, please :slight_smile:
     
  16. Connor22

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    wow mirror image here I would say what conclusions I have come to but they've pretty much all been said just remember jesus came into the world to be OUR sacrifice, every siin big or small past present nad future ALL of them no exceptions so regardless as to whether or not homosexuality is a sin or not we are saved god loves you and everyone else too :slight_smile:
     
  17. Eleanor Rigby

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    I doubt anyone said it better than Ted

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG-pnOvN7wE&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
     
  18. TroubledRyan

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    Thanks guys, I feel alot better now, like really :slight_smile:.
    I'm no longer going to head to school really sad :slight_smile:.

    As for the non-existent part of what this became, I beleive in god because some of my other beleives point to there is a god. I beleive in spiritual beings, which also ties into some demonic being, demons point to satan, and satan stems from heven (now in hell). and God is in heven.
     
  19. Fintan

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    Good clip Eleanor! Helped me too