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Used to be very religious, kind of embarrassing

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by BloodyRose3000, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. BloodyRose3000

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    When I say "used to be", I suppose I still am (though, in a very different way); I'm even a theology minor in school. But I used to be much more vocal about it and much more judgmental years and years ago when I was still in high school. Honestly, one of the reasons I haven't actually come out to anyone yet is because I don't want to seem like a complete hypocrite and, I don't know how I would go about coming out without 1) feeling like a complete ass, and 2) getting judged by people I know who are religious. Granted, I was never one of those rude *I'm better than you* kind of people, per se. But I feel like if it wasen't for that it would be 10 times easier to come out.
     
  2. Sicsemper79

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    I used to be pretty religious too. I still consider myself a pretty spiritual guy. Managing your religious beliefs with your sexuality is one of the tougher aspects of coming to terms with it all. Especially if your tradition is one of that believes the Bible is the literal word of God.

    My views have changed a lot over the years. It wasn't just being gay that changed them either. I went to war and saw horrible things happen to very innocent people... like women and children... I grew older and saw good people, religious people, simply not get the benefits that God was "supposed" to give them for being good.

    Furthermore he didn't even come close to curing me of The Gay.

    The fact is that being religious is not always compatible with reality. Especially if your religion tells you things that are simply not true... i.e. God didn't make you gay... cause if there is a God, he definitely made you gay. There are gay christian groups on the internet... I have, at times, been members of some of them and some are better than others.

    As for feeling hypocritical... "go forth sin no more my son". We all did and said stupid shit deep in the closet. Forgive yourself for it, it's no big deal. If any of your hard core Christian friends try to change you, use it as an opportunity to help them learn a little something about gays when the time is right. But don't make them the first people you come out to.

    Good Luck!
     
  3. BloodyRose3000

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    "If any of your hard core Christian friends try to change you" Actually, most of my friends are much more liberal than I am. So I do think they would support me, but I'd still feel like an idiot-hypocrite. I suppose that's where your "Forgive yourself for it, it's no big deal" comment comes in hand.

    "Managing your religious beliefs with your sexuality is one of the tougher aspects of coming to terms with it all". Tough indeed. I keep going though near-athiestic and Catholic cycles. The latter is much less depressing for me.

    "...of The Gay" lol, you sound like my mom whenever she talks about anything homosexualy related :/
     
  4. Sicsemper79

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    I sure hope it's somewhere in between :grin:
     
  5. BloodyRose3000

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    LOL, more like a Freudian-Jungian-Liberal_Protestant-Catholic mix.
     
  6. Lexington

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    Maybe you should just change your name from Saul to Paul. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  7. Jay

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    There is nowhere in the Bible where it prevents or condemns the mere fact of being "gay". The Bible condemns engaging in irresponsible sexual activity, including gay sex. That is how I explain it and how I understand it, because God created me this way and I won't say that God made a mistake, since he never does that.
     
  8. BloodyRose3000

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    Well that's certainly the Catholic view, though, many evangelical churches seem to believe that being gay in and of itself is a sickness, among other things.
     
  9. Sicsemper79

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    Well, the Bible unfortunately does talk about "homosexuals" in Romans, depending on the definition and the translation you can argue all kinds of different stuff when it comes to the "clobber passages". The fact is though that Paul probably didn't like the gays all that much. Having said that, Paul didn't like women all that much either... or a litany of others.

    When I talk to born again Christians, I tend to bring up the fact that Paul is really not someone who needs to be teaching us about our personal relationships, and he should definitely be left out of the discussions that exist between husbands and wives or anyone else in a romantic relationship. Jesus never mentioned gays. It is only alluded to a couple of times in all of scripture... the fact that it has become, in the minds of some Christians a major sin and one that ranks higher than any other kosher law that no one follows anymore is beyond me. I think its rooted in insecurity among men in the church.

    Unfortunately the argument that it isn't in the Bible simply isn't true. It is there in Romans. But I don't think that it has any bearing on modern faithful Christians in any way. I tend to remind them that one of their mantras is that "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life". Didn't say anything about leaving out the cocksuckers. :grin:

    Having said the Jede is correct. The Bible doesn't condemn "being gay"... But that's not good enough. It leads to being celibate and you wind up blowing strangers in the park while having a wife and kid at home... not good
     
    #9 Sicsemper79, Nov 9, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010
  10. BloodyRose3000

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    Some people actually believe that Paul was specifically referecing the ancient greek practice where boys would take adult men as a kind of mentor, and in return they would sleep with them (as oposed to gay men in general). But that's a minority view.

    "the fact that it has become, in the minds of some Christians a major sin and one that ranks higher than any other kosher law that no one follows anymore is beyond me".

    In one of my theology classes we were learning about some ancient bishop that actally said that homosexuality was a sin worse than murder x_x. Can you say closet case?
     
  11. Sicsemper79

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    LOL! My own opinion, but if you are looking for advice on sex... I wouldn't ask someone who has sworn it off for life.
     
  12. TheEdend

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    You have gotten some good advice here.

    I can only tell you that you have to worry about forgiving yourself. Things change and we must learn how to accept the changes. I used to be a "homophobe" before I came out. The first reaction of people was that I was a hypocrite and just trying to get attention. I had to learn to just not care :slight_smile:

    Also, I don't know if you have seen the documentary "For the Bible Tells Me So." Its not perfect, but it definitely is interesting and makes you think a lot.

    Here is the trailer for it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s8YK4R5qa0
     
  13. Shevanel

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    This.
     
  14. MoiMoi

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    It may be the minority view, but you're going to interpret scripture correctly, you need to look at the historical context in order to be able to tell how it would have been understood by the original readers. To the original audience, the only kinds of same-sex sexual practices that they would have commonly known about were either pederasty (the whole mentor/young student thing) or temple prostitution. To argue that it's talking about gay men in general isn't consistent with what we know about the context of those passages, and no matter how many people insist otherwise or insist on using those verses as sledgehammers doesn't make it so.

    A far as the broader issue of your original post, in the end you can't beat yourself up about things you said or did in the past, you were a kid. We live in a society where we're conditioned to hold to certain ideas, and when you've grown up in a religious environment it's hard. It makes it hard to come to terms with not being straight, it can even make it hard to recognize that you aren't straight. I'm 30, I grew up in a conservative Christian environment where for a good number of years as I was growing up most of the people in my social circle were involved in the religious right big time. I didn't even realize that I was anything other than straight until a few months ago, and when I look back at some of the things in that environment I was in, I cringe. In the end though, we can't change any of our past, but what we do have control over is what we do and how we handle ourselves going forward.
     
  15. Jay

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    Not really, Catholicism also believe that being gay itself is an abomination. The comment I made above is what I believe the Bible says. And what I think is the best interpretation of it. One of the very little things I do not completely agree with my Church, the Catholic.
     
  16. BloodyRose3000

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    Define "being gay" then? They don't believe homosexuality in the sense of attraction is in and of itself a sin, but acting on it is. Therefore, the statement that "Catholicism also believe that being gay itself is an abomination" is true if by "being gay itself" you mean living a lifestyle where you would be having sex with a person of the same gender.
     
  17. Sicsemper79

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    I don't claim to be an expert on different religious sects... I will say though that Catholicism seems to be more based on "real world" action and protestant born again's tend to be more based or spiritual feeling... E.g. Catholics look for a real world confession ritual for the absolution of sin, whereas protestant born again's look for a personal resolution in the soul, less concerned with how many hail mary's one says and more concerned with how bad you feel about the sin committed.

    As far as the gay thing is concerned, it seems to me that both are equally against it. In my view though, there is no difference in being gay and acting gay... i.e. having sex with men vs wanting to have sex with men are either both sin or both natural. Either God made me gay and loves me for it or he didn't and doesn't...

    Personally, I believe in a loving God. I believe he made me this way... if that is true, then how can he judge me for acting on it.

    my own opinion... not cannon.
     
  18. mart83

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    Here is precisely what the Vatican says about homosexuality: gay and lesbian people are "objectively disordered" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2358) and the Bible "presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity" that "nder no circumstances can ... be approved" (paragraph 2357).

    Of course, I say that this is what "the Vatican" says because it is the overwhelming position of the Pope and other Vatican officials, but not necessarily the belief of all Catholics. Or even all Bishops. For example, retired Bishop Thomas Gumbleton has called the church's teaching about homosexuality itself "evil." (http://nationalcatholicreporter.org/peace/gumb021206.htm)

    I'm Catholic myself, and I tend to believe that the Vatican's interpretation of the Scriptures has taken its teachings about homosexuality out of context. The Catholic Church ordinarily teaches that the Bible should be interpreted according to the historical-critical method, that it should not be taken literally. (For example, evolution is A-OK according to the Catholic Church, and unlike a lot of fundamentalist churches.) Like MoiMoi explained above, I think reading the Bible in this way would entail understanding Biblical sexual prohibitions in a way more in context with prohibiting practices such as the prostitution and pederasty, not the monogamous, loving relationship with another adult man that I hope to have someday.
     
  19. GeorgeNorth

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    I completely agree. I don't think you should feel bad about being hypocritical, I think in some ways many of us take on those homophobic views as a means of deflection. I think what people do while in the closet is they will attempt to overcompensate in the face of the hetero-normative nature of our society. The problem is the negative connotations that have so often been associated with it, the feeling that it is wrong.

    I remember when I was in grade 9 I use to tease one of my friends about being gay (he wasn't), and he used to tease me back. I think though when I did do this it was often done as a means of disassociation, a way that I could escape any persecution that may come with being perceived as gay. It may have been wrong but it was sort of a defense mechanism that I had used. I think when and if you do decide to come out, your friends probably will not care about any hypocrisy, given the circumstances, the only thing a good friend will care about is your happiness.
     
  20. BloodyRose3000

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    Yeah, you're probably right :slight_smile: