Hey, so, I just had a long conversation with my mom... and essentially found out that she is an "accepting" homo-phobe. She doesn't know about me, and based on the preceding conversation, I am keeping it that way for now, but I managed to get some information that is actually really troubling me. Okay, my whole family was raised Catholic. I knew that. And out of 30 some-odd cousins, I am fairly sure I am the only one who may be gay... (I say may be because, well, I am still insecure myself.) Anyway, I steered the conversation where I wanted it to go using my openly-lesbian's friend's situation as a road to get there. I mentioned how her parents aren't the most accepting, and my mom said she could understand that. This is when things got tough. 1) She said with all of the people saying they are gay around here, there must be something in the water... :dry: (Which she thought she was being cute. Fact is, actually, around here, there are a lot of people who say or think they are and then realized they really aren't. Living in Vermont during all of this got weird because of the whole gay marriage right movement... A lot of supportive people got so wrapped up in it they though they were but within a year or two realized it wasn't for them. It's why my school isn't really a safe place to come out in; people don't really believe you unless you can back it up. Backwards, right?) OH! forgot to mention, she works in my school.... 2) She used ME as an example (Because of how certain she is that I am straight) by saying that she really wouldn't believe me and would just say I was confused... or trying to find myself. 3) She said she would need to "cope". 4) She says that she was just raised that way and it's a generation thing, but she's glad I have an open mind and can accept others for it. 5) She doesn't believe in gay marriage. She says civil unions are fine... but she compared a gay couple getting a marriage license with a kid who can't read at a 6th grade level getting high-school diploma. Okay, I know how bad that makes her look, but at the same time, I am being accepting of her and I don't want to be bad-mouthing her or anything because, as she made it very clear, it's the generation she grew up in (Graduated 1969 from high school). Thing is, before I can have a talk about ME, I am trying to work on a way to have her look at things a new way a bit. See, I just don't want to become a problem... and at the same time, I really don't know WHO I am in all of this. It's still hard for me to accept this because, well, I had the same views as her right up until I was going through this. I would be lying if I said I ever "wanted" to be gay... especially considering the denial I put myself through. It's still hard saying it because I always wanted to grow up and have kids and stuff, just like she still thinks I want and still do, even though it's something I may have to let go of. I dunno... :help: (I need more advice about how to deal with that mentality... not how to talk to my mom right now. Really, I don't think I'll know what I want in life until I can break the idea that I have to do what society tells me. I'm beating myself up a lot. I think I like the "Idea" of a wife and marriage... but it just wouldn't go well the way I look at, well, not girls...
I think you HAVE given her a chance to look at things a new way. You forced her to verbalize her thoughts, which many people don't bother doing. She in fact said she'd "need to cope", and realizes that it's a "generational thing". Many other parents just say it's wrong, so you're several steps ahead of that, at least. It's weird - I don't ever recall "society" telling me to do anything. Yeah, I saw things in TV and movies and commercials. I saw men coming home from work to wives making dinner and children playing with blocks (hell, I WAS one of those children), but I never considered it training. Just as I didn't think Thundarr the Barbarian Saturday mornings was teaching me I'd best find a magical sword, and a warrior princess and a scantily-clad Mok to hang out with once the earth was devastated by some comet. It was just some show. And no matter how many TV shows or movies or commercials I saw of happily married heterosexual couples with 2.5 kids, I never thought that that was what I was supposed to do. I certainly could, but I never thought it was required. And there's nothing wrong with liking the idea of marriage. If that sort of life appeals to you - house in the suburbs, white picket fence, married with 2.5 kids, two SUVs in the driveway - then aim in that direction. It's totally within your grasp. The only difference is your wife is gonna have a penis. Lex
(All of this was typed on an iPod.) Sorry, I suppose my use of "society" didn't communicate the right message. I more mean that I grew up surrounded by the Catholic mentality, went to Catholic school, and was surrounded by a lot of people who have told me the kind of life they picture for me. Media played a very little part in how I was thought I was to grow up. It was more the responses of the people around me to than media that did I guess. My society is a small rural town in the dead middle if nowhere. I suppose I wasn't exposed to much before high school because I never knew more than 50 nearby people at a time. Sorry about that miscommunication... It's just everybody I or my family knows us either in a serious heterosexual relationship, married, or looking looking to go down that path. Any one who's not either has excuses made for them or my extended family does not seem to aknowledge there existence ( I pester to find out... Illegitimate children, unjustified divorce, abnormal views... All of those seem to be good enough reasons to become unmentionable by the older set of my family). So maybe when I say society I guess I mean the old Polish-catholic and Irish catholic communities my family came out of (New England still has those old towns and sectors with the majority being of one race, religion, and ethnicity.) I guess that is "my society" and I'm so far off from the rest of the world up here I never really looked at it the way mentioned above. So, yeah. I guess I meant upbringing rather than society. Woops. But I get your point, just now I need to try and look at my family the same way. They are the only people I'm literally hiding from. Everyone else, I just haven't found need to tell.
Well, if you'd like to stay closeted to your parents for the time being, that's up to you. As I said above, I do think your mother will come around eventually, but if you'd rather not deal with the hassle while you're under their roof, that's understandable. Once you're out of their house, you can presumably come out, and if people choose to put the blinders on and pretend you don't exist, they're more than welcome to. I'm guessing you'll be far too busy enjoying your new life to really notice. How do you avoid talking about it to your parents? Same way you don't talk about other things. I'm assuming you don't discuss your masturbatory habits with them, and they don't talk about their sexual goings-on with you. Lump it in with that - it's something you simply don't want to talk to them about. Lex
If your not sure of what orientation you are, be it gay, bi, straight or anything in between, and your mum has told you that if you came out to her she wouldn't believe you, maybe you should wait until you're more sure and secure of who you are before you come out to her. She may be more likely to be convinced that you are just confused and trying to find yourself if there's already some truth in that. But it's all down to whenever your ready, when you are, I'm sure you'll know. I think what your mum has said is positive really. She said that she would need time to cope, I would say this suggests she's thought about being in that situation, and believes that she would need to be the one to change her views, rather than think that you would need to change. The fact that your mum is glad that you are open minded kinda says that she thinks your open mindedness is the right way of thinking, but she isn't quite there yet. The good thing is you've basically got a really good idea of how your mum would react, when the time comes you'll have a better idea of what to expect, that might make it easier to come out. In terms of changing your mentality I'd say perhaps you'll also need some time to 'cope' in a sense. But you're only 16, you know at least that you're not quite straight and you've found this site. Time's on your side.
I actually think your mom was really supportive about it all. Before I came out my mom would make faces of disgust about gay kisses on tv and send all the homos to hell. She did come around once I came out though and I'm pretty sure yours will too Oh, and not only are we a catholic family, but she was raised in a catholic country as well. She also didn't know much about any other religion until we came to the US. Just saying that its possible for a mom to come around.
Ichi, I like your mom.=) She's funny. And I agree with TheEnd, I think she was quite supportive... She even said she would have to "cope" with the matter if you were... That is more than what some pple get.
Okay, I get what you guys are saying. I mean, I know she will still love me and everything, and she will know that it's my decision. Maybe its just that I'm more worried about disappointing her than I am of her being upset with me. Up until now, She has been supportive of everything I do, not because I am her son (because she disapproves a lot about most of my sister's stuff), but she seems to usually agree with me. My family has always had that set up of "good kid" and "bad kid", and my sister any I usually would go at it just because we were so different in our lives and how we dealt with out parents. A couple years ago, it seems the fighting between us stopped when she got sick of following my parents rules, and now, all I hear about is every time she makes any bad decision or choice and how it's "killing" my mom. I see that a lot of it really hurts her, and according to my her, there were nights when my mom has said she would rather just "end it all" because nothing was going the way she wanted... I'm not afraid of her not tolerating me (I AM however, afraid of the older set of my family not tolerating me....) I'm afraid of dropping the last bomb. At the same time, there were very long spouts where I've felt the exact same way; like I should just give up, and ironically, knowing how much that would hurt her IS what made me drive those thoughts back. (Okay... now, this is the weirdest thing; Somebody else actually said the exact same way I was feeling which is why I started searching around for someplace to talk and ended up here...) <<< I think I need to add this because I am screwing up communicating I think. So, I was channel surfing one day and I found E! (never watched the channel in my life) and there was this show "Kendra" on... never saw it before and was changing the channel and this guy Eddie came on and started talking about needing to come out of the closet to his parents... and he said everything I was feeling; he was the good kid, he never wanted to disappoint them; he was afraid. And that was when I realized that there was actually somebody else in the world feeling exactly like I did, and I realized I needed to look for more people like that. Well, I didn't, and then, a week later, I was channel surfing again, and I found the same episode, different time and everything. And I watched it from beginning to end, and that's why I got on the computer and started searching (weird, huh)... but the thing is, if I can't manage to explain what I feel well, I think the episode was called "Come out as you are" (I looked it up because I was like "S***!" and felt I had to). Anyway, I just feel like I am not saying it right; so if anyone else saw that, maybe you would get what I mean a bit more. I usually live in a world of nonsense. Real feelings are NOT my specialty. I also don't want to be a pain here. I just feel this constant need to justify myself because if I don't I start driving myself crazy... and I'm afraid things will change between me and my family. (Change for the worse, not the better. It would be hard to change things for the better considering my parents seem to think personality wise I'm perfect... which I hate. If I didn't feel I have to be so perfect for them, I think I would be a much happier person.)
I go to a school where there are 2 openly gay kids. As you can imagine, the environment is pretty harsh when it comes to talking about homosexuality with the populace of Christian farmers. I am the "golden child" of my family too. My younger brother is a little rebel. It's hard thinking about what others might think if I came out. I'm practically the stereotypical Top 10, video game-addicted, AP course-taking nerd who can do no wrong. I had a chance to come out two years ago, but I didn't take it. Back then I wasn't as sure of who I was as I am now. Basically, my mom said she would still love me, and that I was her "good boy." The rest of the car ride (I felt so trapped! :icon_redf) we just sat in silence crying. I, of course, vehemently denied her questioning. I guess what I'm trying to say is, yeah, it's hard being the "good one" out of your siblings. But really, if you don't even know who you are or what you like yet, don't stress out over it. Maybe your preferences will change over time. If this "older set" of your family makes a big to-do about you, let them. It's them who will be wasting their time being angry and confused over something nobody can change. Seriously, you'll be out of the house (hopefully) in a year or two. If you don't want to talk to them, you can cut all ties. Only see the people you want to see. Lots of other people have come out a Catholic or otherwise strictly religious background to embrace who they were. Wherever you turn, there will be somebody who either is experiencing or has experienced the same feelings as you. I hope you can find some answers.
Wow... way to sound like me. Creepy. (My chance was, however, given to me when I was 12 and I had no CLUE what was going on. I denied it because, well, I didn't think I was. Now, I just wish my mom would repeat that conversation with me so I could change the answer.) And the thing is, I'm comfortable saying I'm gay... but it's that feeling like "wait, what if there is at some point a girl I find in life that I DO find the ability to be attracted to and fall in love with?" I don't want be called a liar or attention grubber because of it... (My sister would be the one saying that I think). So, what I mean is, so far everything points to me being gay. I just would still rather keep my options open, especially if I were to talk to my mom about it. But she says she doesn't believe in bisexuality. Same with my sis who said "look, you're gay or you're straight" when I came out to her as bi, and so, to keep from fighting and to keep the focus on the important part, I went with gay for the sake of argument. My mom thinks bisexuality is all about hormones and eventually a person will settle on one side or another. I tried to convince her that I believed there was actually middle ground, but she wouldn't take it and it started a fight, so I switched the topic because I didn't want to be too argumentative for fear of being found-out. A lot of stuff is being tossed at me right now and I'm trying to process it all. I'm sorry if I don't seem to be the most cohesively minded person around, but I never can articulate how I feel until I talk about it a bit. In general, I'm just afraid of all the things that could go wrong. Even posting here I'm still afraid, but the thing that keeps me doing it is the knowledge that if I screw up or embarrass myself here I can just not sign in anymore. Life doesn't work that way methinks.
I have a few comments to make after reading through your posts. One is that it seems to me that your mother has considered the possibility of you coming out, and is subconsciously adjusting to it in her head. Which is why she's told you that she won't believe you, she seems to know but is somewhat in denial. With regard to your last post, on bisexuality, I think to a large extent your mother and sister are right. Most people do settle on being attracted to one sex or the other, but it doesn't mean that the term has no real world meaning. I think a reasonable definition of bisexuality is an ability to form romantic and sexual relations with either sex. This is really only true of a small number, but there are those who are genuinely bi, who after being seemingly quite clearly gay, settle down with a member of the opposite sex. Hormones do go all over the place for some people during the teenage years. For much of that time, I was bisexual, at times leaning heavily towards girls, but from around 22, settled to fairly much exclusively gay. I still occasionally find certain girls strikingly physically attractive, but could only imagine a relationship with a man (especially now that I'm in one). But I think the important thing to remember if you think anyone will turn back at you is that no one would come out as gay unless they genuinely felt an attraction towards men. If you do find that one woman you can fall in love with, then it would turn out that on balance you're bi. But until then, why put the more realistic prospect of something exciting with another boy at risk by not coming out and meeting other gay boys your age. The other thing is not to worry about being a disappointment. It may take a while for your mother to adjust, but she will after time recognize that it's who you are, it's nothing you've done, so not something she can be disappointed with you about.
If and when you do decide to come out maybe you could just explain that then, that you would identify as gay, but that doesn't mean your gonna restrict yourself from the possibility of ever meeting a girl in the future, 10 or 20 years into the future maybe, who knows. I genuinely think that if a gay guy was in a relationship with a woman for a while, it wouldn't really make him bi unless it was a frequent occurrence. Equally if a straight guy was with another guy for a time in his life, it wouldn't mean for the rest of his life he would have to identify as bi. After all they are just labels that we choose to identify with, and really just 3 labels, straight, bi or gay isn't really enough to cover all the bases.
Your mother talks about "ending it all" when your sister doesn't do what your mom wants? Is your sister a prostitute or something, or does she just not live under your mother's thumb? Threatening suicide is the ultimate emotionally manipulative behavior, and it makes your mom sound like a borderline personality.
OK, a few things 1. You obviously care about those around you, especially your mom. That's a great quality, but sometimes you need to think of yourself before those around you. If your sexuality is a burden on your mother for her to accept and come to terms with, so be it. She sounds like an open person. She'll still like you for all the things you're doing right. In the long term, it'll lead to a closer, more honest relationship between you two. Bottom line: sometimes, putting yourself before others is the best thing to do for everyone (even if it's uncatholic!). And you can't let anyone's BS affect you. If your sister thinks bisexuality is a myth, good for her, but that's her opinion. Which leads us to... 2. Figuring out exactly "what" you are is always tough. Gay? Bi? Labels are kind of stupid, but unfortunately they exist. When I was figuring out my sexuality, I started out by saying I was bi, since I loved girls emotionally and I certainly wasn't repulsed by them. A year later, I was pretty sure I was full-on, 100% gay. But that doesn't mean bisexuality doesn't exist! One of very best friends is a bi girl, and she's totally attracted to both. Point is, don't sweat it. Describe yourself as you wish for now. You can always change later. If people criticize you for changing or don't believe you, it's because they've never gone through this and don't realize how hard this stuff is! You don't need to prove to anyone your sexuality. If they don't believe you, screw what they think. I too was concerned that once I would tell people I was gay, there was no going back and that's would I would have to be for the rest of my life. So when I was coming out to people, I said, "I love a guy. I don't know what it means for the future, but right now, all I know is I love a guy." That was my way of working around labels. Best of luck and keep us posted!
I don't know if members of my family know what they are saying to be honest with you. I don't mean to make them sound nuts or anything, but, they make me that way. Sometimes, stuff gets said here that means nothing later to them but it sticks hard to me. I really don't know in all honestly. I mean, I really don't want to attack my family here. All I got, you know? But at the same time, I have NO idea what is going on in their heads, especially after a few too many drinks (I don't know if my parents remember saying the stuff they do after a few drinks....). Whatever. You guys have helped a lot though. I guess I sorta forgot that this topic is about me for once... not my parents. But at this point, I'm ready to let that conversation go. Next time I talk here, I think I'll keep it to whether I told her or not, because you guys all kinda proved that she could react a lot of different ways . Thanks.
Ichi, I can totally relate with what you are saying. My upbringing was very similar (only I went to public school) I always believed that what I wanted was to have a family and kids and such. I never thought that I was gay. Speaking from the other side of this equation, I did get married, have 2 wonderful kids, and only in the last 2 months realized that I'm gay. Had I known back when i was a teen, I would never have gone down this path, but at the time I really wanted a 'straight' life (didn't know there was any other options). So what can I provide to you in the form of wise words of wisdom: You don't have to make any descisions yet. Work at discovering who you are, and being comfortable with who that is. Don't worry so much about being an 'attention grabber'. Everyone enjoys being paid attention to. Your mom sounds a bit like a drama queen (no offence), a little old school. But she'll love you no matter what. Consider this, you may end up being a trail blazer for your family/community. Have pride in that. The path that you carve out, will turn into a paved road by those who come behind you. Oh and you can be gay and have a family as well. Hell, Elton John and his husband just had a baby.
