God, Me, Homosexuality

Being gay caused me to give my belief in god so much consideration that I have actually come to the conclusion that I do not think there is a god.

That being said, according to many Christians, the main message of their religion is love. Being gay is just about loving someone of the same sex, that's it. You are the same as every other person except that you are attracted to men. Would a god who is supposed to be all about love give you the great gift of being able to love, but then turn around and tell you never to act on it and that your love is bad? To me, that action could only be seen as extremely cruel, especially since the Bible says god said it is not god for man to be alone.

 

Point 1: Why does God selectively test the souls of some individuals and not others? Has this particular spirit somehow committed wrongs and promised to repent so then God sent him to test if he would repent?

Point 2: What is God's personal interest in the matter of lying with a man? An omniscious being has no personal interest because an omniscious being is not a person.

Point 3: The Bible's writers may not have thought to define whether the gay sex they were referring to was a pagan ritual. Consider these facts:
1. The official religions all around the world were some form of paganism before the Judao -Christianity came along.
2. It was socially acceptable for homosexuals to have sex in many of the cultures at the time.
How would you interpret this? Possibilities are that:
1. Maybe the Christians rallied against paganism by inferring that gay sex is a sin practiced only by pagans. Just like President Ahmadinejad of Iran said that "there are no gays in Iran".
2. Maybe the Christians were indeed referring to pagan rituals.

You will never know just as you will never be able to prove that God has a consciousness, or that we were somehow created.

Faith is exactly that, it is a leap beyond logic that you take upon yourself, and thusly take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the act of leaping. No one else can completely convince you, because Christians on both sides of the issue make compelling arguments based on the Bible and History.

A wise man once wrote: "The only sovereign I can allow to rule me is reason. The first law of reason is this: what exists exists; what is is. From this irreducible, bedrock principle, all knowledge is built. This is the foundation from which life is embraced. Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality--it is our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."

So I reiterate, you are free to perform your leap of faith, but you will not be free from the consequences of doing that, which includes your unhappiness.

 

I'm not Christian, but I'm a theist. I have a very strong relationship with what I would consider to be God, which is not exactly the same thing as the Christians believe. More like The Force, I guess. But I'm on good terms. I was born the way I was born, and there doesn't necessarily have to be a reason for me - it could be as simple as a cleft palate or Williams syndrome. I'm just not going to let it destroy my life, or my relationship with whatever higher powers there are. I'm a spiritual person because I had to depend on faith a lot growing up.

We all have a purpose in this world. I don't feel like my transgenderism is so much a test for myself (although it has been), but even more so, it is a test for others. It is a test of their tolerance, and their pride, and their fear. And I try to make it as easy for them to overcome ignorance as possible by just living a devout life aimed towards positivity, even if I fall short sometimes. I want to love and be loved, because that is a reflection of God's love.

 

I had the opposite experience, because I wasn't able to accept myself as homosexual until I had already turned away from Christianity, which I did on a purely intellectual level. Afterwards, I could accept who I was and I felt completely liberated. It's rather exciting to think that no one is listening to my thoughts when I had grown up afraid to think the wrong thing, especially since it was made so abundantly clear that thinking about guys in that way was definitely wrong. Now, I have absolutely no struggle with my conscience over who I am. It's a great feeling.

However, if you're determined to remain religious, you'll find the rare congregation that accepts homosexual people. However you'll also find a huge majority of Christians who would like to deny you your rights and demand your celibacy. So, it really all depends on the strength of your personal conviction I guess.

 

Ok I should clarify that I myself am not a theist. But i do not go beyond and say that "Faith and feelings are the darkness to reason's light. In rejecting reason, refusing to think, one embraces death." Because I believe that there is a mystery to faith, and when reason and faith conjoin together, it leads to a feeling that is wonderful, as long as you are rational enough that it does not lead you to embrace death, and commit suicide bombing or rampaging or something extreme like that.

 

First, can I say -awesome- question. I haven't been out for too long and feel that I am not that different from you. To me my Christian faith and my relationship with my Creator is something that is very important to me and I'd say, one of the most beautiful things about me.

I think, like you, I am determined to reconcile my faith, which I believe to be true, with my sexuality, which is undeniable.

I was born to a traditional mainstream Christian family that attended Church regularly. I remember as a kid, I went to Sunday School but around aged 9, began rebelling. I didn't like be dragged away to Church when I could stay home and play. But, this changed in my teenage years. I guess around 16, I actually became a Christian. Don't get me wrong I was baptised as a child and would have told people I was a Christian long before -- but I didn't feel God until my teenage years. Its really hard to explain to non-Christians... but you know when you first begin to feel a hunger for God/Faith? When you never really feel full or close enough to God and always want more? That's what I mean.

Anyway, not long after I began to have gay feelings, although I -never- would have labelled myself as gay. I tried to ignore it, I tried to pray it away, I kept myself busy so I didn't have to deal with it.

At the same time, (coincidence?), the Church began debating gay-blessings, homosexuality, gay-marriage, and was split on the issue. So although I knew that the church was traditionally against homosexuality, it was clear that many, including priests, bishops etc., disagreed with that stance.

Anyway, after university, I came to terms with my sexuality (or began to come to terms with it? Not sure where I am, exactly...). I was lucky, that my Christian family is pretty big into the whole Christian love -thang-, and have been welcomed with open arms. I hope yours is the same.

As for my relationship with God, it hasn't changed much. I still know that he loves me and I love the Christian message about love. (Yes, I know I said love three times in that sentence about the Christian message!)

As for The Bible, I think it is important for ALL Christians to remember that we are followers of Jesus of Nazareth, first. The Bible is helpful in knowing and learning about Christ, but frankly if it conflicts with the teachings of GOD (aka Jesus), I have a hard time taking it as God's word. Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't go so far to say that the Bible is wrong, but I would say that like Jesus didn't obey everything in the Old Testament, we shouldn't either. Frankly, if someone teaches something that they claim is what the Bible says, I ask myself, - Would the Jesus I know agree or disagree with that? And I go from there.

One thing I didn't expect and have found difficult with coming out and being Christian is parts of the LGBT Community. Don't get me wrong, the LGBT community is very welcoming of people of all sexualities, but from what I've found, once you say you're Christian... some people aren't ok with that. I have been asked how I can still be Christian after what Christians have done to LGBT people, and I have been told I am stupid/naive for what I believe etc.

Don't let Christians tell you that you are wrong because of who you love and don't let anyone tell you that you are wrong for believing in God and what He has in store for you.

I hope something from this has helped you!! And I'd love to chat more! Also, I am going to post the three best pieces of advice I have received from LGBT Christians... which helped me!!

Here are three BIG points that other LGBT Christians reiterated to me when I was searching. Each has helped me to reconcile my faith with my sexuality.

1. Regarding the “importance” of The Bible itself. The Bible itself says "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16) But like many other things in Christianity this is translated to mean different things to different people. Some believe that this quote means that we should literally accept everything written (fundamentalist Christians) and some believe that the book is “useful” for teaching and training about God & life (mainstream Christians).

2. There –IS- wide spread disagreement on all of the passages regarding "homosexuality" in the Bible, mainly due to the fact that there is no one word for "homosexuality" in the Greek language, thus it is translated differently. Conservatives Biblical theologians, suggest that all 6 instances of homosexuality in the Bible condemn it in all forms. While, Liberal theologians, suggest that the 6 instances don't refer to "consensual" homosexual relations, but rather, rape, bestiality, masturbation etc.

Example 1: Leviticus 20:13
“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.”
- The Hebrew word "to'ebah" is generally translated as "abomination." Many leading scholars interpret these passages as referring only to male Jews who engaged in same-sex behavior in Pagan temples. The term would better be translated as "ritually improper" or "involving foreign religious cult practice." Elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures, the same word is used to ban wearing of clothing made up from two materials (like cotton-polyester in today's world), or having a tattoo, eating shrimp, eating pork, seeding lawns with a mixture of grass types, etc. It is also important to note that none of the passages invoking "T'ebah" are valid for Christians or non-Jews today, according to St. Paul's Gospel in the New Testament.

Example 2: Romans 1:26-27
“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
- St. Paul directed this book to Christians in Rome -- a city known for its sexual debauchery. Earlier verses in Romans 1 describe how some former Christians, presumably all heterosexuals, had reverted to Paganism. They once more worshiped idols, and engaged in ritual sex orgies. In the original Greek, the phrase translated "vile affections" does not refer to passion or lust. it appears to refer to the "frenzied state of mind that many ancient mystery cults induced in worshipers by means of wine, drugs and music."

3. The Bible is a set of Covenants (Old Testament [Jewish], New Testament [Christian]) or 'Laws God set for His people', and while this is a common misconception – ALL Christians believe that God has changed these laws as people progressed through time.

A couple of quick examples:

Example 1. In the Old Testament (Covenant), God told the people to sacrifice animals to Him, in the New Testament (Covenant), God tells the people that His son Jesus is the ultimate and final living sacrifice for all, and animal sacrifices should stop.

Example 2. In the Old Testament, the Books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy set forth many laws which seem unsustainable and harsh (One example, is the Jewish dietary laws, no shellfish, pork, no wearing mixed fabrics and stoning for various crimes etc). However, in the New Testament, Jesus revokes many of these 'Jewish' laws when he begins to, for the first time, welcome non-Jewish/Gentile followers.

As we read the Gospels, we see that Jesus endorsed many of the old laws, but he did not follow others, nor did He require His disciples to do so. In later New Testament books, Paul and the other apostles affirm many of these laws to be good but indicate that Christians need not observe others.

Good Luck & God Bless!

 

I think a lot of how you ultimately decide to view your own homosexuality is based on Who you think God is. This especially relates to what God commands. In Judaism, God's laws are largely about purity, separating the clean from the unclean. Christianity rejects this premise, saying that God's commands are based on love. So, the question for you is, what is the most loving interpretation of the various injunctions in Paul against sexual immorality. Here's one take on Romans 1:26-27:

Another thing to consider is just how inerrant you consider the Bible. Abolitionism sparked a movement in Protestantism against inerrancy that lead to modern theories of Biblical criticism. If you accept the Bible as inerrant, you necessarily accept slavery as, if not moral, at least obligatory for slaves to remain so (I Timothy 6:1-2).

But, if you reject inerrancy, you are free to interpret what the Bible says not word-for-word, but theme-for-theme. A literal reading of Paul calls homosexuality immoral (and counsels against all sex), I don't shrink from this declaration. But a thematic reading of Paul merely condemns sexual immorality, and it is up to you as the reader to determine whether Paul's understanding of homosexuality as immoral, depraved behavior, matches yours.

I firmly believe that someone can be a committed Christian, regard the Bible as inspired by God, and be a practicing homosexual (provided that the practice is within the bounds of a loving, committed relationship). It's up to you to decide whether you agree.

 

I feel like, Christianity at its purest and best is about being a good person. It's about loving and caring and giving of yourself to help others. It's about recognizing that everyone on this planet is a person and worth something. I personally think that that is more important to God than following orders written by people thousands of years ago. I can't know that, but from what I believe about God, I would think that He values the goodness in you and cares not that much about the gayness.

 

From...

http://emptyclosets.com/home/pages/resources/links.php

God Made Me Gay - A Biblical Affirmation of Homosexuality
http://www.godmademegay.com/

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And courtesy of EC'er mnguy...

Gay Christian 101
"Giving voice to Conservative Gay Evangelicals" :eek:
http://www.gaychristian101.com/

How Can I Be Sure That God Loves Me, Too? A Sermon by Rev. Dr. Mel White.
http://www.soulforce.org/article/mel-white-sermon-video

Supplemented by...

Some background on James Melville White
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_White

---------- Post added 28th Jan 2011 at 11:25 PM ----------

This! ^ ​

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, pro or con. You'd think if it was that important, the avatar of God would have mentioned it at least once.

 

Ok, so you need to remember that religon is based on interpretations of the bible. No religion truly follows ever word of the bible. Leviticus also states that men should not shave becuase that is an abomination, as well as eating shell fish. Alot of religous leaders are hipocritical in the fact that they pick and choose what to believe and use the bible as a tool for reinforcing their views. There are alot of religions now that are accepting gays into their congregations, but there are still those that dont.

 

The politics of religion...

 

For me I find that the way I interpret the bible is that I interpret it to say that practicing homosexual acts as a form of a pagan ritual is the thing that is bad. To me it doesn't make any sense that a god of love would condemn a form of love. Also the Hebrew (original) version of the bible didn't say anything about homosexuals. The translations were mistranslated in my opinion.
Also to tell you the truth I could debate with you and show you that all the things the bible says about homosexuals are actually a misinterpretation or a mistranslation, but I don't really follow the bible completely and think that a lot of what it says is morally wrong in some way.
Like it says that women can be a form of property and it says that if a woman does not produce a male heir and her husband dies then she must have sex with each of her husbands brothers until she has a boy, now that is ridiculous, I don't know anyone who does that.
I also think a lot of what the bible says might have been true in the olden days but no longer apply now. Lets say that the bible does say homosexuality is bad. Well in the olden days the human population was a lot smaller and people wanted it to get bigger, and if someone was a homosexual then they would not produce babies would they? Well look at us now. If anything there should be a new bible coming out that hails homosexuals because of world overpopulation.
Well that is my two cents, basically I think the original bible does not say anything about homosexuals and I believe that the parts in the translation that do are misinterpreted. And I believe that the Bible is outdated.

 

You're right... but in fairness, there is a logic behind why they "pick and choose". Jesus "picked and chose".

This is my favourite part of

"How Can I Be Sure That God Loves Me, Too?" A Sermon by Mel White.

 

well not everything in the bible is really meant to be true and alot of the bible is based on symbolism rather than actual events.

Well Jesus never said anything on homosexuality. I never did believe at one time that you could not be gay and christian but now I believe someone could be both gay and christian