hello!

Welcome! We're a friendly group, as you know. And the great thing is that it's anonymous - the only things we know about you are what you put in your profile and messages.

From that it sounds like you are close to accepting, although I've seen what you've written further down.

I know that situation very well. You feel that it's just a phase and that you'll meet a young lady then all these gay feelings will disappear........

It's great that your friends have taken it so well. They know you are still the same person, they just know a bit more about you now.

Well that sounds reasonably conclusive to me!

You can be certain because you know and trust your feelings. I asked myself exactly the same question, and even went as far as dating a couple of girls. That should have proved to me that I was not into girls, but I still kept wondering.

I think what you said above and near the beginning shoould be enough to be certain. But it know how easy it is to keep questioning yourself and trying to deny it, even when the truth is right there and undenyable. I spent 10 years doing that......

Straight guys are not the best at giving advice on gay feelings, partly because they don't share and understand the feelings, and partly becuse they aren't generally good at discussing emotions generally. Also they often see it as no big deal, and don't think there is anything to discuss and give advise on. It's great that they support you though - they sound like good true friends.

It's always difficult trying to work out how parents will react.

One thing you could do: Next time she makes an unpleasant comment about homosexuality, wait until you get her on her own, remind her of the incident and ask if she really reels that way. She may be going along with the comments of others for an easy life. Or she may be trying to test the water with you and seeing how you react (though that seems less likely).

If she asks why, and don't want to say, you could mention that a friend of yours is gay, that he isn't anything like she says, and that her comments upset you.

She may still think there is more to this than just a friend, but it's OK to plant those seeds in her mind.

The good thing for her though is that you have two brothers who will hopefully bring her the grandchildren she wants.

But ultimately you have to be yourself, and live your life in the way that's right for you. Yes, it may shatter some of her dreams. But's so much better to do it now than in 10-20 years time when you have a wife and kids etc. you are only shattering dreams, not lives.

Don't bother to tell him then. If he has no interest in your life, why should you volunteer any information about it? Do you tell him about anything else in your life? If not, then there's no reason to make an exception for this news.

Discuss it with your mum though, once you've come out to her. I don't know whether your parents are together or not, but either way she would know him better than you and could advise on whether it's worth coming out to him or not. Maybe she could tell him for you, if you both agreed thaat this was the best approach?

I really don't think he needs to know, at least not yet.

That's what we all ask and what we all want from life. There's no easy answers to that one.

Well I've tried, and I'm sure others will be along with their thoughts too.

One little thing - your message would be a bit easier to read if you broke it into a few paragraphs where you change subject. I know what it's like though, when you have a lot to say and your thoughts are flowing faster than your fingers!

 

Well looks like Paul took every last shread of the good advice and bet us to it but i would still like to welcome to our humble little community...*whispers*...Tell your friends so we can make it not so small....

 

Hi there,

First off, welcome to EC... I'm sure there are lots of other people just like you who quietly read what everyone else writes and finds it useful, helpful, and just plain heartening (which is not the same as plain yogourt).

The questions you've felt or had about whether you're "really" gay are totally normal. They're basically a result of "heterosexual hegemony" or, more plainly, heterosexism, which is basically a social phenomenon where monogamous heterosexuality gets constructed as normal, natural, and better than any other kind of sexuality. In fact, it generally is deemed the only true, acceptable form of sexuality, and all others are thus deviant. It leads to a variety of very subtle, institutionalised discrimination (in contrast to homophobia, which is generally virulent if not outright violent), the best example being the whole notion of "separate but 'equal' (ha!)" "civil unions" vs. full-blown marriage for partners of the same gender. That is, by promoting civil unions for gay people but keeping marriage exclusively reserved for straight people, various politicians and governments are basically saying "you're okay but you're not quite as good as us so we get marriage and you still don't."

More relevant to your particular case is the whole "being gay/bi/non-straight in general is a 'phase'" discourse and the whole fact that while some are busy searching for a gay gene, you don't hear about people busy searching for a hetero gene, the underlying assumption being that a gay gene is a defective version or mis-expression of the "natural" hetero gene.

To share a personal anecdote, when I started coming out to people as gay, I wasn't really 100% sure I was 100% gay myself. But I knew that if I didn't "come out with guns blazing," as it were, that some people would pick up on whatever small hesitations I had and try to, effectively, talk me out of it. So I very consciously decided that however unsure I might still be (and I think that lack of surety was a result of all the things you brought up, like I'd never been involved with a girl), I would not in the slightest admit to that uncertainty.

But yeah, how do you know without experience? Same way 99% of all straight guys know they're straight without any experience with other guys. And perhaps more strongly, you know because (Western) society is set up in such a way that being gay is still a major stigma/struggle for most people and if you were actually just going through a phase, you probably wouldn't be freaking yourself out trying to figure out how your mum was going to react--you'd just be straight. I sincerely doubt there are many who are perverse and masochistic enough to be convince themselves they're gay simply for what? The attention? And for those people who do adopt, say, bisexuality as a kinky fad, I doubt very much they agonise over telling their loved ones because deep-down inside, they know they're full of hooey.

As for the reactions of loved ones, specifically your mother, it's really tough to gauge. It is true that coming out to a parent usually is pretty hard on the parent, simply because they've watched you grow and put all these expectations on you (often subconsciously) about how your life is going to be and what it's going to look like and very few parents imagine a possible future where their child is non-straight (which is heterosexism at work again). It's also true that often people who badmouth homosexuals change their tune pretty quickly once they encounter real live loved ones who are gay. The acceptability of making fun of sexuality difference is also a result of heterosexual hegemony--it's the background default way of acting that doesn't usually fall away until challenged because it's so ingrained in us we don't realise we're doing it.

It's really great you've got friends to stay with if your situation at home becomes unworkable but I understand what you mean about not wanting to get kicked out of your own home. Of course, given your age, that home is not going to stay "your home" for that much longer anyway, so maybe that (hopefully unlikely) possibility is not actually as bad as it seems.

I know how hard it is not to be open and honest with your mum. I'm also very close to mine and things between us were definitely rough as I was trying to figure myself out. But she reacted okay when I did come out and we're probably closer than ever at this point (several years later). What is perhaps the most important thing to realise is that when you tell someone, especially a parent, they start dealing with it then (unless they go into denial, in which case who knows when they start dealing with it *grin*). That means that you've had umpteen months or years of a head start on them in terms of coming to terms with it, whereas they're starting from scratch. So it's good to assume it's going to take them a while to get comfortable with the idea and in the interim they are likely going to say inappropriate things or ask inappropriate questions.

That was one of the weirdest things for me, that having to be calm, rational, parent-like person who had (more of) the answers than my mum. But it's really quite common: in many respects, you become the parent and they become more child-like, including the occasional tantrum, which is truly bizarre.

The other thing I try to remind people of when they're struggling with shattering their parents' expectations is that, at least for Western-raised people, you need to remember that your life is (ostensibly) yours, and that while you might be crushing their dreams, they are exactly that: THEIRS, not yours. I think that ultimately, putting other people's needs, no matter how important those people are, ahead of your own is an unhealthy thing, because it creates internal conflict within a person--it's like a recipe for being unhappy. That doesn't mean everyone should start being a selfish bastard but there is something to be said for doing an inventory of how much of how you live your life work for you and how much of it you're doing to please someone else at the expense of your own happiness. The (tricky) key is to find ways to fulfill both your own needs and to please others in the process, I think, which may be why so many gay people become psychotic overachievers, so I guess that can be taken to unhealthy extremes too! (I.e. well I won't necessarily have children but I will get two Ph.Ds. and be a world-renowned academic!)

So to sum up, everything you're feeling is pretty normal (which is not to say it's trivial--at all). There aren't really any good 100% solutions to your dilemmas... you just have to do the best you can do, which is all anyone should be expecting. One thing you might want to consider is explaining some of how you feel to your mother when you decide to tell her. She might not realise when you tell her that you're telling her because you feel like keeping it secret is driving a wedge between you guys.

Hope this (extremely short ) posting helps.

 

Ok:icon_eek: ....looks like i was wrong about the "no advice left" thing...wow joey...just wow lol....great advice everyone.....sorry i can't be of assistance besides support...i'm younger than you so i probably don't have any advice thats worthy to you...except never wear brown...i don't know why i said that but my friend has this hideous brown skirt and even tho i insist she burn & bury it...she however insists on wearing it twice a week.... ::shudder:: ...oops sorry about the random rambling...i just have no social life in the winter so i'm pretty much always on:icon_redf

 

Well first off, does he normally say stuff like "I love you; you're a great person?"

And then keep in mind that just like with parents, friends haven't had that much time to absorb what you've told them. Plus if they've never had anyone come out to them before, they might be really afraid of saying the wrong thing and not knowing what to say and just keep quiet instead.

I would give it some time before you decide it went all that poorly. Not everyone is going to throw open their arms and shout, "That's FABULOUS!" Which is good because that would get kinda old after a while.

 

It's not really good or bad....i'd say it's good that he invited you over...that means he's not totally against you or anything...if he didn't bring it up it's probably because he's still dealing with your come out on the inside...thinking to himself...it might take a while before the subject cools off and he is comfortable to talk about it

 

I would be disappointed too, but I agree with joeyconnick; it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think inviting you shortly after you told him could be a way of saying nothing's changed between the two of you.

Since he didn't mention anything about you being gay, it probably means he doesn't really need to do so. When a friend of mine did the same thing after I told him, I asked him why he reacted in an unattached way. He said that there was nothing to discuss, and that this subject was none of his business. A funny thing I noticed is that after that he no longer said stuff like "That's so gay," when describing something bad that happened.

I'm not really sure if your friend is reacting that way for the same reason, but if you really want to know, ask him. I doubt that asking him would compromise your friendship if you've known each other for so long. I'm sure asking a question like that would be hard, but considering how you just told him you're gay, it should be easy. :icon_mrgr