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so, this whole sex and relationships thing

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Toneth, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. Toneth

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    its a little hard for me, not that I have a problem with it, just that I feel like I don't know how things should progress with a guy. I used to escort (yes, I'm being polite) so I know that my views on sex are uh, somewhat off, and I always feel like I either move to fast, or move too slow, and I really don't feel like its important to me, I do it mostly to please my partner (and on some level to reassure myself).
    I know that every relationship progresses at its own pace, but i can't help but feeling that my prior "work experience" leaves me kinda clueless as to how things should work when there are emotions involved, and while I try not be overly analytical, which I am, I know on some level that I'm miss reading things, and I feel like some guys put all this emotion into sex, even casual sex, where other people, like myself, see it as being almost completely separate.
    anyway, I guess my question, is how important is sex in a relationship, and is there a good rule of thumb for how long a person should wait? cause i also feel like with a lot of my ex's that things go from being more emotional, to being more about the sex, and I kinda feel like even if a guy doesn't find me attractive as a person anymore, that since the sex is good, they stick around. or that most guys would like to have sex, but don't like me as a person, idk, I know I'm long winded, and I over think stuff, but some input would be nice. -thanks
     
  2. cardenio

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    I wouldn't worry too much about finding a "magic number" since there is no such thing. I think that the better question to ask is, how would you define a successful relationship? What would that look like for you? Are you more interested in establishing and forging emotional bonds? Are you more interested in keeping the sexual chemistry alive? Even if you are interested in a relationship that includes both elements, does one take precedence for you at the moment? Again, don’t worry too much about what is “normal” or what other people do; what matters most is finding what sort of arrangement works best for you.

    You say that sex is not an emotion-filled experience for you. That could be due to your past work, but the fact that you do not combine emotions and sex is not, in itself, a bad thing; it can only be bad if it precludes you from having the kind of relationship that you want. The way that you experience sex is not the issue.

    From what you’ve written, it sounds like what you want right now is to have relationships that go beyond the purely physical. Since you say that you have sex with people mostly for their own benefit, and that sex has kept some of your previous relationships going past their expiration dates, then perhaps you should take sex entirely out of the equation until you can establish the sort of emotional connection that you would feel satisfied with.

    Oh, and one last thing: don’t feel bad if you don’t have all the answers or you're not entirely sure what it is exactly that you want. Every relationship we have, I think, brings us one step closer to figuring that out.
     
  3. Chip

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    Escorting can really impact how you approach relationships. But often, the very willingness to do escorting itself comes from, and/or contributes to, deeper issues within yourself that were around before you started working in that field.

    One of the factors you've already identified: the dissociation of emotion from sex. Another is the boundaries surrounding the casualness of sex that is usually present in people who have been sex workers.

    To answer your question directly, there's no one, clear answer about how long you should wait, how quickly you should go. I think you've hit the nail right on the head in terms of not yet having the ability to connect on a deep emotional level, and, as a result, misfiring in terms of knowing when to move quickly into sexual experiences vs. go more slowly.

    So one way of addressing that problem is simply to go slowly and work on redeveloping your concept of what relationships are. Sex and relationships *are* separate, but they are (at least in healthy relationships) linked together. And where guys are in terms of what they want is all over the spectrum; some guys are happy and comfortable to hook up and have sex on a first date, while for others, waiting 3 or 6 months or more is appropriate. Most who are emotionally healthy and looking for a relationship rather than a hookup will fall somewhere in between (wanting to get to know you some first, and maybe progressing to sexual activity on the 3rd or 4th date, for example.)

    You may also want to pay attention to your own feelings, and get out of your head and into your heart... easier said than done. Very often, sex trade workers learn, unconsciously, that their value as a person is tied to their desirability as a sexual partner, and sex can become essentially a currency of self-worth. If that's the case for you, then consciously choosing to take a step back from sex could be good in helping you reconnect to the emotions. Maybe set a boundary for yourself that you won't have sex or other sexual activity for at least some period when you start a relationship... be it 3 or 4 dates, or 2 weeks, or a month, or whatever. That will allow you to focus more on your feelings for the person instead of mixing up the physical sensations of sex with the emotional feelings.

    It may also be sensible to consider therapy to work not on the issues left over from being a sex worker, but the disconnect between emotions and intellect, and the boundaries that separate sex from emotional relationships. The good news is, this is a very solveable problem, and the fact that you're addressing it now, relatively early in your life, rather than waiting until your 30s or 40s will make it a lot easier.

    If you would like to talk about this in more detail or in a less public setting, feel free to PM me.
     
  4. Toneth

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    @cardenio I am looking for more than sex, but I guess I'm just looking for that right mix?
    @chip, well I'm cool with being pretty out in the open, who knows, maybe someone else who needs the advice will read it, but I never really thought about the difference between emotion and intellect, lol, or at least never thought of it quite like that, idk. I don't feel like I'm emotionally damaged or anything, but I do hold a lot of self worth in my sexual desirability. I know that my instincts about when to go forward are kind of off, and I can't help but wonder if its effecting my relationships?
     
  5. Chip

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    The difference between emotion and intellect never occurs to those (including myself, before I worked on it in therapy) who spend most of their time in their heads. :slight_smile:

    I didn't mean to imply you're emotionally damaged, only that escorting by necessity changes the way we view and think about sex and tends to desensitize and intellectualize it. (Escorting isn't the only thing to cause this sort of problem, btw, and there are plenty of people who have never done any form of sex trade work who have similar issues.)

    I think it is very likely that your instincts are affecting your relationships. Though, to be fair, there are plenty of gay guys with misfires caused by other things besides sex trade work.

    As I like to say, I think that most gay men have more issues to deal with about relationships than our heterosexual counterparts, in part because nearly all of us have some unresolved baggage from internalized homophobia that comes from the environments in which we grow up, and the process we must go through in coming out. So in that way, you'll find that many gay men have intimacy issues, and challenges in getting emotionally close to our partners that must be resolved if our relationships are to be healthy and long lasting.

    Also, simply recognizing that you hold a lot of self-worth in your sexual desirability is an important step... because that isn't a very healthy place to be. It causes you to displace your worth as a person onto one aspect of who you are, and, in fact, an aspect that really isn't all that important in the long term. It takes time to change and shift that value onto the whole of you as an individual, but doing the work to make that change is important because it ultimately will affect the sort of people you seek out, and help you improve both the quality of your relationships, and the quality of the people you find yourself attracted to.

    It's particularly good that you're thinking about these things now, because the sooner you address them, the easier it is, and the more time you have to live your life in an emotionally healthy and happy way.

    One last suggestion I'll make: If you're willing to read, Joe Kort's excellent book "Ten Smart Things Gay Men Can Do to Find Real Love" is probably the single best book out there for gay men. The name is completely misleading, as it is a book on understanding yourself as a gay man, and it addresses some of the issues you've described, along with many others. It is currently out of print in the regular edition, but Amazon has the large-print edition in stock. I highly recommend it, and I think you will really benefit from what it has to say.
     
  6. Toneth

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    hmm, large print? I can do that, lol
     
  7. xequar

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    Two questions.

    First, are you in a relationship presently?

    Second, if you are now or were previously in a relationship, did you talk about any of this with your partner?

    That second thing is key. When I first met Mr. X and we started fooling around a bit, I told him straight out that I was pretty inexperienced and that sex was not a big driving force to me. We talked all of that sort of stuff out, and without divulging details of my personal relationship, I can say that we're still together over two years later.

    Communication is the key to a good relationship, even when it comes to sex.
     
  8. Toneth

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    not at present, I just recently ended the relationship i was in a few weeks ago, but no, we didn't talk about it
     
  9. Bryan90

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    Being in Toronto and knowing the tons of gay teens around, I can tell you ONE THING.

    THERE IS NO RULE OF THUMB as to how sex and relationships work. So I wouldn't worry if I were you.

    It's really all about compatability. I know some people who wouldn't have casual sex at all, and when it comes to relationships, they are a 'turn-on' for some, while also being 'turn-off' for some.

    And I know guys who have casual sex more than I masturbate, and again, when it comes to relationships, they are a 'turn-on' for some, while also a 'turn-off' for some.

    I find that relationships work differently for everyone. I find that the only disadvantage you have having been a sex worker is not your view on sex, but more of the stigma around it. So personally, I don't think your current approach to sex would put you at too much of a disadvantage unless of course you're in a very conservative community where every gay person is against premarital sex.