Hello everyone, just joined. I figured I had no one in person to ask, so I figured I'd come here and get some advice. THIS MIGHT BE LONG SO BEAR WITH ME, I APOLOGIZE. So I'm 22 years old. Bisexual, closeted, blah blah, etc. I consider myself fairly attractive, not trying to sound vain. But let's just say I have no problem attracting both sexes. So there is this guy that I've been friends with for about 7 years (lets call him Joe). He went to an all boys private school with my brother where they both played hockey. So I basically met him through my brother. Over the years I've become great friends with Joe. He's 8 months younger than me, so we're close in age, and we both have similar interests (working on cars, watersports, water-skiing, etc). We get a long pretty well... me and him actually seem to get a long better than he gets along with my older brother whom he was initially friends with. So for years, there have been weird signs that he gives off. He's had 2 longer term girlfriends. One in high-school, and one that he met in college (they've recently broken up). The thing is... Joe's best friend in high school (not my brother) was a gay male. At the time, he wasn't gay. Fast forward to college.. So Joe ends up living with said gay male friend in high school. They both live in the same house. Gay male is out at this point, has a boyfriend, and has his boyfriend over often. I remember coming over his house and his gay roommate would be engaging in sexual activity in his room and Joe would say "dude there like having sex, you can hear it, it's disgusting, I have to live with this". Kind of homophobic, or maybe just something an immature college student would say? Fast forward to recently... Even when "Joe" had a girlfriend, he was always touchy feely. A lot of times touchy feely with exclusively just me. He didn't treat other dudes the same. Thing is, he has NO IDEA I'm bi, since I am still in the closet. Sorry if this is going to jump around a lot. There are so many things that have happened, most of which I probably wont remember to post here, but I'm trying to recollect everything.... I can remember him years ago asking weird random questions such as: "I cant understand how dudes would want to get **cked in the butt, that's disgusting!" Or "I love women, I don't understand how anyone could wanna **ck guys." Stuff of that nature. So recently (especially since he's been single) has been VERY touchy feely with me. If I'm sitting next to him on a couch, he'll find any reason to touch me, playfully punch me... he even will rest his hand over my dick and keep it there, or he'll touch my thighs, playfully pull my hair, try to wrestle with me. Often times he'll even come up behind me and wrap his arms around me and rest his junk all up on my butt (with clothes on obviously) And whenever I talk to him and make contact, he's giving me that crazy "I'm looking into your soul" look that I would only do to someone I was surely interested in. The other day he was ripping on my brother for something, and I laughed, and he looked at me, smiled and said "I just wanted to get a smile out of you". :eusa_doh: It gets more extreme. The other day we were sitting around talking, bullshitting, my brother him, and I.... and randomly he says "You have pretty eyes" to me. It kind of took me by surprise. Didn't know how to respond so I just smiled and said thanks. Another instance, we were sitting around watching TV(we sit on couches a lot:lol and he jokingly says "I want you". And I kind of pretended I didn't hear him, so I said "what?" and he said "nothing". He tells me ALLLL the time, at least once or twice every time we hang out, that I'm gorgeous. He literally will say "You are so good looking"..."You're gorgeous". One time I had just gotten a really good tan from a vacation, and when he saw me he said ..."You're looking hot man, you might have to watch out, I'm going to try and take advantage of you". Awkward kind of? Not something that a straight man would say? Or is he that comfortable with his sexuality? Get's even weirder. He often times just rips his dick out of his pants and lets it hang out. At any random moment. He could be walking around, and he'll just pull it out. He'll be sitting on the coach, he pulls it out. And then he just laughs and puts it back again after we stare at him in confusion. This will happen even when my (obviously) straight brother is around. One time him and my brother were talking about having a threesome with a chick, and filming it. They were bullshitting of course because that's what they always do, but Joe out of nowhere looks at me and goes "then maybe I could bang you after" referring to me. Again I kind of just laughed it off...so out of the blue. Anyways, I hope many of you aren't thinking "dude your bi, so stop assuming that everyone else is bi or that every straight guy wants a piece of you", because honestly when I hang out with ANY other of my straight friends, we act just like any friends would, no attraction involved, no awkward moments. And sometimes Joe can be the polar opposite, when we all hang out he'll be in a bad mood, and act really cold, etc. I guess you could say I could be attracted to him physically, he's got a pretty nice body. But his personality is a bit wack. Me and my brother secretly think he's bi-polar because of all the outlandish things that he says/does. He's a mystery. Anyone have any advice? I guess what I'm asking is, am I being really dumb, or is this guy hardcore into me? And is this guy straight, bi, gay? BY THE WAY: NONE, I repeat NONE of this stuff is made up at all. There is actually a lot more things, I just dont have the time nor interest to share them all. I thought this would be enough information to go by.
Hi, and first off, welcome to EC. You've come to the right place, and I hope you'll stick around and join in the conversations. Now, on to your post. Um.... I would say that he's dropping every possible hint he can to indicate that he's at the very least questioning. One of the processes that people go through in accepting they are gay (or bi, or something other than straight) is their own self-acceptance. And part of that is accepting the loss of identity as "straight." In processing that loss (or any loss) one goes through stages that typically look like denial-anger-bargaining-grief-acceptance. The "Why would anyone want to have sex in the butt! That's disgusting!" is classic denial. (Though... it can also be someone who's genuinely straight. But in this case, with the rest of the pieces, it looks like denial.) The reaching out to you, fingering your crotch, touching you... is likely exploration. And most closeted gay guys have no idea that they are usually putting off subtle (or sometimes not-so-subtle) signs that other gay guys, closeted or not, can pick up on. So he may very well have picked up on the fact that you like guys, and be trying to throw out hints in the hope you'll pick up on them. Now... to be fair, there's a risk here. It seems beyond a reasonable doubt to me that he is coming on to you, wants you to acknowledge, and come out to him, and then maybe wants to try some stuff with you. But it's also possible that his conscious and unconscious are still wrestling with one another and so if you do broach the subject, it's *possible* that he might get exactly what he's been asking for... and run screaming back into the closet. But the bottom line is, he's extending, and I think it's pretty safe that you need to extend also. He really can't do anything more blatant unless he rips your pants down and starts sucking your dick, and I doubt he's going to do that So maybe you take him up on his hints. One way of doing that is, when you're alone somewhere, say something like "Look, I feel like there's an elephant in the room, and it's difficult for both of us, so I just want to get it out in the open. I'm bi, and I suspect you might be also, because of the comments you've made and way you've been acting. And I'm cool with it, but I feel like we're both sort of beating around the bush, and it's annoying." Or... you could come out yourself, but not say you suspect he is, and just ask if maybe he's ever wondered about himself (without mentioning his obvious behaviors) Or... you could do things entirely non-verbally. Next time he touches you, just put your hand on top of his and hold it... and maybe, slowly, reach over and touch him, or move slowly in the direction of his crotch and see what he does. The third approach might be the safest, but it also leaves more room for vagueness. If you have an "up front" relationship with him, then the first or second might be better. If you need more help or suggestion, please feel free to post more details. You can also feel free to PM me or any of the advisor staff. In any case, you're taking some great steps, and you should feel good about yourself and where you're headed. Please keep us informed!
Thanks a lot for the response. You touched on a lot of things and gave me a lot to think about. The problem for me to pursue this is... A) I'm not out yet unfortunately, and don't plan on coming out anytime soon (just my situation in life right now) B) sometimes he gives me vibes that he IS really just straight and fooling around either because he's has a playful personality, or like you said suspects that I'm into dudes and is messing with my head. The amount of flirtation that he engages with me is substantial. But like I said, sometimes he'll be opposite and act cold toward me, and not be himself...hence why we secretly think he is bi-polar or something. Either way, it's a sticky situation. I enjoy the guys company, he's a good friend. But he really leaves me puzzled sometimes. I guess the underlying problem is that I'm not out, which creates a barrier as to what I can do. But that's a WHOLE DIFFERENT topic, lol. I feel like If I were to ever try and return his actions, or make a move, he'd recoil and act as if I was crazy, despite all these clues he's dropping. I dont wish to lose him as a friend, surely. And I surely dont want him being the reason as to why I'm out now. He's one of the exclusive people I hang out with in the little group of friends that I do have. So, leaves me at square 1 really. Like you said, I also agree that he's pretty much making it blatantly obvious that he's into me, or into dudes, it's just weird because he seems like one of those people that will live their WHOLE LIFE in the closet, if you catch my drift. So to me, I'd think that he would hold ALL OF THIS STUFF that he does to me in, in order to keep his orientation a secret. Like I said, it goes both ways.. I feel like he could be a complete closet case, or that he could just be a little wacko and sexually open and free. But some of the stuff he does... come on RED FLAGS everywhere. I guess I'll never know until things escalate...but do I want that to happen? I'm glad I can discuss this with you guys though, I'm sure more details will surface. There are so many other things.
Well, I know you aren't out... what I was saying was, you'd be coming out to him if you pursue things. Now... if you aren't ready to do that, which I completely understand is a huge deal, then there isn't much else you can do. I think it's unlikely he's just messing with your head. No matter how open and free people are, they usually don't go all the way to touching your crotch and making statements that they'd like to bang you, telling you you have beautiful eyes, and so forth if they're just messing with you. Nowwww... it is possible that he'd recoil if you responded because he is probably just as closeted as you are. But even if he does initially, I think it's likely that he'd pretty quickly follow up on it and decide it's worth coming out, at least to you. People your age are getting increasingly more comfortable coming out, at least to their peers. There's so much less stigma than there was with older generations. Here at EC, we have guys who are out who work in blue collar, somewhat rednecky jobs, a high school quarterback at a large parochial school, even people in the military who are somewhat out to their squad and CO. So acceptance is growing at a phenomenal rate, and I think that people who, 10 years ago, would have spent their entire lives in the closet now feel like they have more options.
He has gay tendencies, thats for sure! But remember, guys like these do not like to think they have anything "gay" in them.They might feel very disturbed if somebody implies such thing or act on.And they can be agressive to hide out their insecurities.From fights to insults..or maybe simply out you.Honestly I think it would be better to find someone accepted himself..
To be honest, I don't think he's gay at all. I think he's comfortable with you. Yes, many of his actions are pretty gay, but after what you've said he's said; it seems clear that he doesn't really understand how guys could be attracted to other guys. IMO, you're pretty much best friends and he feels comfortable enough to mess around and act playfully with you. He also sounds like a 'touchy-feely' person anyway so that probably makes it look worse. I have a friend like this; she doesn't understand how I could possibly find women sexually attractive, yet she loves to grab my ass, hold my hand and cuddle with me on the couch, and I know that's she's completely straight. Maybe because he's comfortable with you, AND his sexuality, that he doesn't think "Shit! Better not act like that, people might think I'm gay!" because he thinks "I'm completely straight! Everyone knows that, and who cares what they think? I know I am, and that's all that matters." Just a different take on it.
Thanks again for the advice. You had a lot of good points, and like I said what makes it so hard is that I'm in the closet, and whether or not my friend is bisexual, he's obviously in the closet too. I think I'm just overall scared of coming out to him and expressing that, I really don't think he'd take it well...because if he isn't bisexual (even if he is) I think he react in such a way that would make me look bad. It might even ruin the friendship, which is what I don't want at all. So maybe my guess is to just keep my mouth shut, smile, and let him continue being "comfortable" with me. Or should I put a stop to it and let him know that it's bothering me. I'm not a toy. Yeah, he's probably not the best candidate for this kind of stuff. Closet cases (shoot, I'm one) are probably very uncomfortable with the idea of another guy coming onto them, or having another guy question his sexuality, especially since he's one of those "alpha male always in control" kind of guy (which he is). He has his soft sides, but mostly very dominant in the relationship. He thinks hes the one that has the final say. I really appreciate hearing it from another angle. And I almost wish that were the case here, but I dont think it is. Out of all of my straight friends, NONE of them exhibit traits and characteristics that this guy has. None of them are so blatantly gay. And all my straight friends are straight as an arrow. Sure, I guess things could be different if I came out and said I was bisexual. They'd probably treat me differently. But in their minds, at this point in time I am straight, and they've never even questioned me or called me out on it. And the whole "I dont get how guys could wanna eff women" thing... the thing that makes that so weird is he says those types of things out of the blue. We'll be talking about one subject, and he'll just randomly throw in a comment like that. It's like hes pondering so many things in his mind. Or it was almost as if he wanted our points of view on gay sex, that way if we said the same things he said, that it was "disgusting" then he knew that we wouldn't accept him. It's almost like when people need advice about themselves, but they pretend they're getting advice for a friend. Understand what I mean? Another thing... if he was comfortable with me, wouldn't I have to be just as comfortable with him...in order for him to act the way he's acting. The things he does make me feel almost uncomfortable at times. Sure I'm bi and into dudes, but not EVERY dude. Especially not ones that are claiming to be straight but practically treating me as if I were his love interest/crush. I'm not into playing with peoples minds, I can be a flirt at times, but nothing too intense that will get the other person more involved and interested than I am. Another memory just came to mind.. this was 2 years back, we were at a house party at his place, people were drunk, etc. I was a little dressed up, and he gives me the up and down look when I walked in and said ... "Dude if I werent gay, I totally do you"... I had to correct him..."You mean if you WERE gay." He seemed confused so eventually I just walked away. Sign? What I'm kind of coming to the conclusion is... he might not be really into me (which is good because I have no interest in dating a man anyway).... but he is slowly coming to the realizations and kind of using me to experiment those kinds of feelings/touching/flirting with a man. Like I said, maybe he does suspect I'm BI, and that would maybe make sense too, but if he did suspect that, that'd make him the ONLY one. So basically, I'm just gonna lay low and see what happens. Like Chip said, next time he touches me, fondles me, I'll do it back and see how he reacts. I think I'm going to take the non-verbal route, and just use touch. Based on what I see, then maybe I can explore this further. Again, I appreciate everyone's advice. This is a sticky situation.
I think the non-verbal route is a great idea. Go slowly and see where it leads. And promise that you'll keep us up to date on what happens
I have a friend who is straight as an arrow who does the same things to me. We are roommates and he calls me things like "sweetie" and "honey" daily and he always makes very blatant sexual remarks. However he isn't really too touchy-feely. In my opinion, i would say the best course of action, if you want to move forward, would be to do what Chip said and do the non-verbal route. That way you can actually see what happens, and if things get too far or out of control you could always just say you're messing around/teasing.
Thanks for the response Jonamo. Yeah I guess the playful sexual remarks arent what I'm concerned about. Just that he's so touchy feely with me and I'm the only guy out of our friends that he seems to do this with. Out of all my guy friends Ive never had one say I had pretty eyes, or tell me that I'm good looking. No one else has ever crossed that line but "Joe". But yes, I'm thinking the nonverbal route is by best bet thus far. I guess after that I'll go from there. I guess it's hard to really access this situation unless you know the people involved. You'd have to know Joe in order to understand my assumption that he may be a closeted bisexual. Because the feeling is strong.
Nothing much I can really add. The non-verbal route sounds like the best course of action. Just don't go too far too quick. It may lead to some less than pleasant encounters later on.
Thanks LOLguy. Yeah, non-verbal seems to be the least fail prone way. A couple more details: Even when he's had girlfriends he's always treated me this way. It becomes more intense when he's single. Since he commonly shows his penis, he's asked me on several occasions how big mine is, and has asked me to whip it out. He's gotten erections and pulled his penis out of his pants and just let it sit there. Something about his taste in music. It's not girly, just different. If I sit next to him on a couch, I notice that he slowly inches closer to me. I'll start 1 foot away, and after 10 minutes, our legs/hips are touching. Speaking of that, he OFTEN gets into my personal space. Like very close. He's bit my neck/ears playfully. If I'm not sitting next to him, he'll stare at me, or try to get my attention I guess there is no use asking over the internet if this guys into me, or if he's gay or bi. You have to be in the situation to know, but I really appreciate your guys' help. The way he's acting, would be totally okay if we were 12-17 years old. But we're 22. So something tells me that this guys' hiding something. Thanks again! Glad to be here!
Woah, very interesting. He sounds like perhaps an even more complex case then myself, lol. And almost too crazy to be true...
What is it you are tryin to get from it, do you wanna pull him? I know Iv been at parties, seen a guy and just doing shit conciously but not to obvious. example 1: guy sits next to me, and then moves very close so Im thinking lets try it, hand over chair to begin with and the casually just letting it fall, assess the situation. Hes seems cool with it so im practically hugging him, then its the gentle leg knock, just kinda rubbing against his just seeing where it goes you know, this kinda playing thing went on for a little while, ended up pulling. I didnt know the guy...so he couldve been straight, I know im awful. Guy 2: at a party random cute guy hardly know him, i was given him random playful abuse, he prob didnt think so at the time lol but then i went to kitchen where he was and we were bantering back and forth, and I think he tested the waters by puckering up first to bait me, I bit unfortunately...straight I think but kinda wish hadnt been lol Guy 3: same party as guy 2, sit next to him on couch, he is a friend of a friend who I knew, he told me he had seen me on a mobile "dating" app, anyhoo we talk about where we are at with our sexuality. He is a closeted bi guy, but not really up for a relationship with a dude, doesnt think he could do it and doesnt want to rock the status quo of his life. Anyhoo we continue talking and again its all about the contact, it was a small counch and we were kinda alone so we were kinda sitting all over each other, his legs over mine and stuff, and im just stroking his legs, and eventually we get up to some stuff. Im in a kilt so hence its not hard to catch a glimpse of the little guy. Anyway we ended up going back to mine to finish what we started. I did ask him on a date he politely declined...gutted, cant always change there mind. Sorry if that is a bit much for the younger users, but the OP has stated he is of age and I dont think it went into too much detail. Anyway like it has been previously said, non-verbal all the way, if he is straight he will back out, again it just leaves him to question why you didnt risky business. As for his behaviour I def think it is that of a confused young man, and I think he is trying to play up the masculine bromance kinda thing too much. The lady doth protest too much. If you are wanting a serious relationship with him if he is indeed that way inclined, I think it would be best not too try and jump his bones first, but come out and then see what happens. Is it not something you could talk to your brother about? surely you could trust him, plus your brother aint gonna let shit happen to ya. I think that since you are here, and the way you have been talking I think you are close to coming out. I wouldnt push anyone in a direction they didnt want too just my thoughts. Sorry if this is a bit incoherant, I do hope it helps a little bit. You did ask a lot and I couldnt remember it all as I was typing, and to lazy to go back and scan sorry ---------- Post added 13th Jun 2011 at 05:32 PM ---------- Also i hasten to add I was blazing drunk through these encounters, want to be him really relaxed liquer him up, maybe some strip poker lol I know ill get criticised for this aswell
Yeah, i'm with the non-verbal way. Seems like the best choice. And...something tells me your friend possibly has some kind of behavior disorder, randomly taking his cock out and trying to get attention all the time is something..very crazy Maybe he can't control his feelings very well, that applies at how he does stuff to you like...resting his hand at your package, and says all these sexual things. Good luck ^^
Jeez, you make it sound so easy 12tonowhere...does that sort of progression of contact work for assessing women's interest too or are these techniques particular to gay men? Problem is most the women I meet these days is through dancing and obviously touching is initiated with that...and I'm afraid of moving my hands anywhere but where they are supposed to be for proper dance frame/connection. Even when I was "dirty dancing" with this friend at a club and her hands were roaming all over my body I was afraid of doing the same, offending her by putting 'em somewhere I shouldn't be. LOL, I know I suck at flirting. Some guys it just seems to come so naturally...but I have no clue how. Oh, and it doesn't help that she already has a boyfriend so now I'll even be doubting those girls who act like they're interested me...which are few and far between.
Its just getting a good read on the situation, not saying Im super confident and get any guy I set my eyes on, its reading the situation and then laying your cards on the table. If your mate is all over you touchy you intimately chances are she might have a thing for you and she may be up for a pull. Thing is not to be afraid to strike out, just gotta be confident make her know you are worth having, alternatively, if you are wanting to fool around with guys I imagine its much easier lol ---------- Post added 13th Jun 2011 at 06:33 PM ---------- Plus dutch courage works wonders
After reading other posts and other times you mentioned, it now sort of seems unlikely that he feels comfortable with you now. And true, you'd have to be like that also for him to continue doing it, but some people don't really notice and do it anyway, thinking there's nothing wrong with what they're doing e.g in your personal space or hugging you etc. But what this guy seems to be doing is A LOT more than that. :icon_wink It really seems like he's trying to reinforce that he's straight isn't he? I've seen people do that before, they sound quite homophobic and constantly pretty much say "Have I told you I'm straight? Don't forget I'm straight!" when really they're just making sure that YOU know they're straight, even when they're not sure themselves. Maybe he does know you're bi and he thinks that gives him the green light to act close and 'gay' towards you. But yeah, I agree with going to non-verbal route. Just see how he reacts if you do it back and if he's all "Dude, what the hell?" Then you can semi-confront him and say "Well you do it all the time. Care to explain?"
