Hi, I guess I should say thank you for having a place to come and think "out loud." It's pretty difficult to begin this conversation after so many years of either avoiding it or trying to work around or through it. The short version of a rather long story, is that I am 27 year old man, who has come a long way in battling a lot of issues in self-worth, value, and acceptance, but that has never really identified or embraced my sexuality. I am physically attracted to men, and emotionally and romantically attracted to women, but I don't know if either of those circumstances are due to ruling out the flip side of the equation. Part of the problem is that I have always lived in my head and have had a hard time trusting others and myself. I've basically spent a life in fear of myself and others. I've had to grow up a lot in the past 10 years so I've missed out on the "normal" parts of life, and I admit that I get very lonely. I'm also very independent so I am at odds with my emotions when it comes to needing/wanting people. To top it off, I am bipolar, stable and well adjusted at this point, but far less emotional. I will go through large periods of life where everything is fine as it is, and I don't have any huge aspirations, but then I will also have these intense longings for whatever's next, whatever is real. Lately, I've just been frustrated with life. In many ways I feel stuck, and I wonder at the possibility of love and all that comes with it. I fell in love for the first time and had to deal with having my heart crushed with no explanation or even a word of goodbye. This was to a girl who I would have said was my best friend in the world. I ended up feeling used as an emotional crutch and tossed aside, severely screwing up my gains in trusting others and feeling "normal" I have been cycling in my bipolar disorder recently which has me feeling the more emotional needs of loneliness in my depression and the physical/sexual needs in my manic stages. I think the overall need to feel love in any form is just taking its toll lately. I don't have anyone I feel close to anymore, and I'm tired of being the same. I want to connect with someone, but I have a hard time trusting people. I want to have my first kiss, to touch and be touched for the first time, to see and feel what someone else looks like. To take that in. But I don't know where to start. I know I'm not alone, I know there is no "normal," I just feel like a freak. Developmentally stunted, you know? It'd just be great to have a mentor, a friend who I could work with to figure all of this out with, without making bad choices. Thanks for letting me share. Sorry it's everything at once.
First and foremost: Hi! And welcome to EC! I hope you'll enjoy your stay and at least be able to find some useful advice here! :smilewave I don't think you should feel like a freak at all! What you describe sems rather typical, actually. There's a lot in that description of your life that I recognie from mine, and I'm sure others will step in to share similar experiences. It's quite normal for GLBT people to take some more time to get to grips with love, relationships and emotions. As someone who mainly lives in his own head, I don't think that feeling of dissatisfaction you're feeling is a bad thing. I've actually come to welcome it as a needed catalyst for change. Maybe that feeling takes a bit longer for more introspective people to come on, but all you can do when it comes is use it to actually make a change instead of just pondering about it. You seem to already know this, but it does bear repeating: love can't be rushed. It's quite easy to get to just kissing, touching and sex, but if you want to have the full package, then it's going to take some time and effort. The first step of that is to expand your horizons and meet more people. Since you seem to want a trustworthy mentor first and foremost, I'd say you should look to locak GLBT groups first. Even googling for [your location] + GLBT can already help in finding where the local groups are. Most cities in the US have at least a couple. It might be tressful going to one of those for the first time, but wen you get there, you're bound to find at least some people with similar experiences, good advice, and hopefully the right set of character traits and interests to make for good friends. You shouldn't be looking for the perfect soulmate right away, but more for people to build up a friendship with. Even if you end up dating someone, it's always best to start off as friends instead of rushing into things. Since you mention being bipolar: are you seeing a councilor right now? If so, does this person know about what you just told us? Even if it isn't their area of expertise, they might be able to give some good pointers too! And also don't discount online friends. It might not be the same as face-to-face communication, but all of us are here to listen to your thoughts and offer our opinions. So if there are things bothering you o if you're in doubt, never hesitate to post!
Heya, I've gone through some of that stuff myself and it really gets pretty heavy.(I'm not bi-polar or anything but I have had that want for some company too.) I think it'd be very helpful to just let it go for now. Having a moment of peace would really do some good if you're under so much stress all the time. It's not about letting it go and giving up, more of just looking inward for a place to rest. I'm not sure if that was useful or anything but it's always easier to have a fresh start than just toughing it out. Who knows, you might just find what you were looking for after you clear out all that smoke, right?
Thanks for the kind words guys. A lot of my current feelings are stronger because of the cycling. I'm actually on the way back down, which is more "comfortable" for me, but I do enjoy the intense emotion at times. Filip, You asked if I had a counselor. I have for a large part of my life, and had to step away from all of it for a while to just get a feel for not always being "on the couch." It's been a while, but I feel that it may be time to resume. The only problem now is that I don't have insurance, nor can I get insurance because of my pre-existing condition, so I can't really afford that kind of care. I do see a PA at a mental health clinic for free, but it really just consists of him prescribing my meds. He and the clinic are severely understaffed, so I've never made too much of a point in taking up more of his time than needed. I'm pretty high functioning for someone with my disorder, so I like to be mindful of getting in and out so he can treat as many people as he can. It'd be good to catch him up on my symptoms though, as I haven't really done that in a while. I do need to find friends and connections in my community, I just am not good at it. I'm also afraid of being labeled when I don't even know what I am. I know that's petty, but I'm sure all of us have dealt with that at some level. I'm one of those guys who straight guys think something is off, but not enough to think I'm gay and I only really got attention from gay men when I was a teenager and didn't really know what it all meant, so I often just feel invisible. I don't have any gay male friends (nor many guy friends at all), I do have many lesbian friends, but I honestly need a guy's perspective and male friendships, regardless of sexual orientation. I'd like to talk to my friends about all of this, but I just don't think they'll understand. For example, a good friend of mine from college and I have a very close relationship, and we had once talked about dating, which I could still being a possibility. but if I said, "You know, I could see being with you and being emotionally, romantically, and maybe sexually attracted to you." I think that would just come across as "you're really just gay and don't know it." Which I feel like is unfair, but granted it's all hypothetical, it's all in my head. I just have a lot to come to terms with. It's just choosing what takes precedent. Right now I am lonely and want intimacy, which I've never had, I've never felt close enough to anyone to be unguarded, I've always been repulsed at the idea of touch, but it my lesser moments, there's the voice in my head that says, "use sex for intimacy" but honestly, does that work? I know the answer is no. But the repressed part of me wants to say, "what the hell? Go for it!" But I know that's not safe. It'd be very easy to just hookup, or at least I assume it would be, but the risks of violence and disease are very real too. So I don't know. I guess the important part for now if to just be having this conversation at all. I think a large part of me figuring out my orientation will be something like in AA, where you say, "Hi, my name is Justin, and I..." but instead of saying "am an alcoholic" it's something like, "and I like dick, I'm just not sure how much." I don't know. Sorry if that's crass. I'm not sure what the etiquette is. Thanks,
There's remarkably little etiquette, actually. I have no qualms typing openly that I like dick myself. On some moments I'll tell myself in the mirror (out loud) that I'm gay. Getting stuff like that out in the open helps a lot in making it less of a big deal! I found EC is pretty good as a gays anonymous group. Before I came here, there were precisely two gay people I knew, and while we got along well as far as hobbies went, on the gay front we couldn't be more different. They were more into clubbing and dating (okay, hooking up with) older guys, I'm more of a homebody and old-school romantic. No wonder I was confused whether I was truly gay. But just posting around and reading stories from guys with all kinds of different backgrounds, all pretty regular people who just happen to be gay, helped me a lot to find out more about myself without feeling the urge to conform to friends or stereotypes. I am wondering though: your RL friends might not completely understand. But would they be supportive? I mean: my own friends didn't really understand me either. It took a lot of explaining when I came out to some of them. Some still can't shut up about it. And I think a couple still are wondering when I'll turn stereotypically gay, since a straight-acting gay guy is outside of the realm of the possible for them. But they were supportive to a man, and even when I was much less self-assured and much more doubtful, they were always open and interested and willing to hear me out about my doubts. That's not me saying that you should come out as doubting (yes, you can come out as not sure too!) to your friends. But you might want to consider the possibility of telling one or two. Talking to them can help you formulate your thoughts better and gain a better understanding of yourself. Finally: I don't think hookups are the way to go. Not for what you want, at least They are pretty easy to come by, but from all I've heard (and all I have is hearsay), it's more like a really involved form of masturbation, rather than real intimacy. Both you and the guy you hook up with would be pretty interchangeable to the other, after all. I do hope this talking about it is already helping you!
Thanks Filip, I thought I has typed a response a couple days ago, but I guess it didn't save. We sound very similar, which isn't something I have ever been able to say, So thank you. It's reassuring to know that we're not all resigned to stereotypes, which is something I know in my heart, but don't feel or see in life. If I'm going to be honest about any of this, I should say that I did make a mistake the other night and hooked up with a stranger for the first time. And it was as you suggested. I want wholeness and intimacy, I felt like having physical contact with another human being for the first time in life would just bring clarity - or at least a place to start: Like okay, what's the verdict on it? In my head, heart, and body, I just wanted to know. And the whole time, I felt more like a prostitute than anything else. Outside myself, saying what I thought he would want to hear, doing what I thought he would want done, but not really taking any of it in or enjoying it. This guy was just so sad and lonely, and I just didn't care. I was there for me, and to him, I was there for him. It just felt like such a waste. I just wanted to get it over and get out of there. I just felt nothing. He smelled like cigarettes, his hands were rough, every time he said something, it sounding like it was something he thought I wanted to hear. like something out of some bad (or any?) porn film. Now I'm just feeling stupidity... and disgust at myself for letting myself be so shallow. Now I have to wait a few weeks to be tested, and then a few months for HIV. I always pictured my first time with whoever it was starting slow, fireplace going, on the couch, first kiss, going slow, ending slow, raw and passionate, tender and sensitive, falling asleep in his/her arms, waking up the same way, and not going anywhere. Does that happen? Is that real? I actually called a good friend of mine that I haven't talked to in years. We met in a similar setting to these forums, but just connected. He probably has one of the most beautiful hearts/souls out of anyone I know, he's a friend and brother more than anything else, and no, there's no romantic feelings or attractions there if you're wondering. We fell out of touch when we decided to go different ways in our journey as we worked through our sexual identities. I had just started and he had been trying for years. Anyways, we had a good two hour conversation, he knew I was talking in circles, and just asked what was going on. He couldn't give any answers, but at least I know that I have a voice I can talk to. We've both had our hearts shattered in the past year, and were trying to process heartbreak, mine with a girl I'll call "R" and his with someone he really cared about. It was a good conversation. No real answers, just knowing I'm not alone. He suggested that I take a journey, somewhere by myself, and just be. Oddly enough London and Switzerland have always had that pull. ... gosh sorry to carry on Filip. I forget how easy it is to just keep going on when writing. Thanks, Justin
Never be sorry to carry on when describing things! First of all, I like long posts (really, just look around and see the walls of text I routinely write ). And if you can't express yourself in text on a forum, where is the world going? First off: don't feel too bad about this hook-up. Sure, it was a mistake, but it was an idea that you seem to have been playing with for a bit, and it's always hard to let loose of those. Especially since hook-ups are so easy to come by. But don't let it weigh you down either. Just see it as a valuable lesson in what you want and don't want. And do get tested, obviously. Odds of catching anything are not as big as some horror stories make them out to be, but you want to make sure anyway. As you strike me as a thoughtful sort, I trust you used the necessary protection? And maybe do also remind yourself that 1 is just a number. There's this ridiculous expectation that the first time you do anything sexual must be the right time, and everything must be perfect and you both have to perform like olympic athletes and... That's all really hogwash. When you meet the right person, and after due deliberation move on to sex, you can just decide that moment is the new first time, and that this hook-up was just an undressed rehearsal. That romantic first time might yet happen and at that time, you probably won't even care who does what and how. If you're close enough, then you'll be busier trying to give each other a good time (genuinely caring, this time, and not just doing what you think is appropriate in a porn movie). And whether it is your fantasy or hilarious fumbling, it'll be rather perfect! Calling that friend seems to be the right decision. It's good to have someone to talk to, and especially if you're feeliong vulnerable, it helps if there is no attraction (no, I wasn't wondering, but it's good to be sure ). To date, I'm still glad there was never any attraction to my real-life gay friends either. It made them better able to be a good sounding board. Having a friend and having an online place like EC sounds already like a good support network! We might not have all the answers (no one has, though), but it helps in working through things. I hear both London and Switzerland are rather nice this time of year! Though they're quite different settings. If you can afford the time and the voyage, travel can help in detaching yourself from the daily routine, so I think your friend was right on the money! I think I've outdone your post for length, now, so I'll stop here, but not before giving you a (*hug*) and assuring that things will be OK!
Thanks, and no, I wasn't smart about things. To say I acted on impulse would be an understatement. The best way I can explain my experiences with mania is that (if you are familiar with Freud) that the Id has free reign, and my rational self is floating about 2 inches outside of my body, watching everything, but not really able to intervene. Not the best explanation (or excuse), but the best I can come up with. I'm not beating myself up more than what I should, I mean, actions have consequences, and I just have to wait till I can find out. In other news, I had this rather epic Nicholas Sparks-ish dream about a guy I had a crush on in high school. He was actually the first person to ever flirt with me, though I didn't really get what was happening at the time. I've actually thought about him a lot over the past 11 years, wondering what it would have been like to be friends, but he was older, and left home after graduating. All I had to go off of were those few passing conversations, many smiles, and a vague message in my yearbook. Anyway, the dream was really sweet. I may write it down and flesh it out. I don't know if saying it was encouraging is the right word, but I woke up feeling very touched, and peaceful. I've often processed a lot in dreams - both good and bad So we'll see. Maybe It'll pick up where it left off :icon_wink:
So I've thought about it a lot, and I think I'm going to give this a try. I've decided I'm not going to rule out love, whatever it looks like. I want to let my guard down and be seen and known by someone else. So we'll see how it goes. It just makes me wish I hadn't made the mistakes I have. I'm committed to looking for real relationships, in church (and online with clear intentions - love, life, family), so I'm hoping those kind of guys are actually out there. It's surprising how peaceful I feel about all of this. Huh...
sounds like youve been going through a very difficult time. it seems to me that you are lonely and just longing for a friend that you can count on. (&&&) luckily, you have come to the right place. EC is a great site because it allows lonely people just like you to talk about whats on their minds without judgement. Every one here loves and supports each other. i wish you the best. please know that we are always here for you.
Well your interests in men and women are the same as mine so I am in the same boat except for the fact that I am a little less than a decade younger and not bi-polar so other than that I deffinitely will say just chillax and go with the flow things will happen as they are meant to
