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The Divide

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Owl47, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. Owl47

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    Recently, I've started to notice my habits when choosing where to go, what to see, and what to do. The choices I make are, many times, blinded by one characteristic that seems to overshadow all others. That is, of course, homosexuality.

    I attended a couple of frat parties with a friend that were hosted by Delta Lamba Phi, an LGBT type of fraternity. I noticed that my interest in joining the frat was much higher than my interest in joining others, even though I didn't get along with the guys and share as many ideologies as much as I did with some of the "straight" fraternities.

    When watching Youtube videos and subscribing to users, I noticed I tend to subscribe to gay users over straight users, even if I enjoy the videos of straight users more. It's just the fact that one user is gay that changes my opinion.

    When doing things and playing sports with friends, I noticed I say "you just got owned by a gay man" waay too often.


    There are so many more examples, but I'm trying to change all of this, and not put so much weight on me, or things, being gay. Of course, I thought about the "common interest" argument, and realized that being gay is only one characteristic of me(though at the time it may seem a BIG one); there are many others that compose who I am. I feel as though I need to get over the whole "this is gay, this is straight" type of mindset and become less worried about whether something is or not. I see it in the community a lot as well and feel it's a bit of a trap we can all fall into. . .

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Mirko

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    Hi there! I think you are 'worrying' a bit too much about that. :slight_smile: Does it really matter if you subscribe more often to users who are gay? Not really.

    Maybe there is something else that drew you to join the fraternities that you did. Sure, them being LGBT probably had something to do with it, and perhaps the fact that you can identify more with LGBTs than with others, but there could have been also other reasons.

    You know that there is way more to you then being gay or your sexual identity. I'd say, keep joining in on things you like doing and interest you, and keep doing things that will allow you to feel "this is me" without worrying as to whether the group or persons are LGBT. If you get too much caught up on it you might lose out on things that you could have enjoyed.

    That said, it sounds like that you would like to have a 'balance' where perhaps the common interests are not so much defined by something that is LGBT related. Often times when we start coming out and embrace our sexual identity, we feel drawn to everything that is somehow related to our sexual identity. In other words, we are seeking things out because they allow us to have a confirmation that this is "me" so to speak. Being part of LGBT groups and having a connection to others who are LGBT can often provide reassurance, and help us to become more comfortable with ourselves. Maybe, and now that you are more comfortable with yourself, you don't need that so much anymore.

    If you have realized that you don't have all that much in common with the members of the Delta Lamba Phi, try joining another one as well where you know that you would have more in common with them.
     
  3. Filip

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    Interesting topic! Permit me to write a whole wall of text, as it's a topic I spent some time thinking on.

    I must confess that I have somewhat the same tendency. If I know someone's gay, I'll usually at least try a bit extra to find a way to like them or what they're doing. And if they're behaving obnoxiously, I'll usually (subconsciously) try to cut them just a bit of extra slack.

    Personally, i chalk it up to the ideal of "belonging" somewhere.
    Sure, there's the fact that gay people are just as diverse as straight people. Some have vastly different ideas or hobbies. And the GLBT world has its fair share of assholes too (even though, as I'mtyping this, I'm already making excuses for the assholes I know personally :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:). So objectively, whether or not someone is GLBT should just be one of many factors in how you assess people.

    Except that, for lack of a better word, gay people just... "understand".

    When I'm at a bar with my straight friends, and the topic drifts to schoolyard crushes from ten years ago, then I can perfectly bring up that one guy I obsessed over from grades 8 to 12. But they always need some exposition on just why i never even tried to find out whether he was gay. Why I never told them. How confusing it must have been... and even after all the exposition, I'm left with a feeling that they still don't quite get it.
    And there's other, less intuitive topics too. From the revelation that I didn't drink in highschool and uni for fear of drunkenly outing myself, to the fact that I avoided one of my friends for half a year because I couldn't cope with the fact that he had come out and I couldn't. Being gay informed a lot of my choices, and when it comes up, they just do not seem to get that without an explanation.

    Mind you, my friends are awesome. They're honestly interested while I'm explaining all of this. They sometimes bring it up just out of interest. They're never uncomfortable (not that I can detect, at least). But they don't instinctually understand, and that stings.

    Compare that to socialising with gay guys. They do "understand". When I'm talking to a gay guy about awkward schoolyard crushes, he won't need an explanation about all the confusing stuff. I don't have to explain just how it was being closeted and the anxiety before coming out. If a reference to that comes up, I won't have to look at a blank stare and launch into exposition time.

    They might be assholes, they might not actually be my bestest of friends, but they have been through the same thing, and they would at least just understand without need for explanations or complicated metaphors. And even with all other things considered, that counts for something. Even if I never talk to a lot of gay people, the idea that they would understand informs my appreciation of them.

    Maybe a much simpler thing would be to compare it to soldiers having served in the same war. They might not see eye to eye on politics, social issues or religion. They might think the other is an asshole. One of them might have been in an entirely different part of the battlefield than the other. But there is some sense of community in saying "I was in 'Nam", and the other just knowing what that means.


    "Belonging" might partially be an illusion, but it is a powerful one, and it's hard not to look favourable on someone who had a lot of the same hardships and experiences. You start off understanding them a bit more than the first random guy you'd meet in the street.



    As for getting over the divide, there's really only two things you can do, I guess: staying aware of it and spending more time out of the closet. The more I'm open to my straight friends, the better they understand me, the less I feel like the odd one out, and the more I feel like I belong (I never quite had that before I came out).
    And just knowing of your own prejudices does help too. Not knowing their own prejudices is probably what causes GLBT people to fall into this "pitfall" as you describe it.

    The above is just some musings, and not exactly helpful advice, I fear, but I hope it can be of some help!
     
  4. Owl47

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    @Mirko
    I have noticed that, since I came out to most people, I've been needed a bit of confirmation about who I am. It's really a process of discovery and experimentation, with things like friends, personality, choices, etc. I think now that I'm starting to get over most of that I want to be more well-rounded and balanced in all aspects of my personality.

    I agree with you, Filip; I think knowledge of this(and knowledge of one's own faults in general-the basis for my Jungian signature) is the most important step in trying to overcome the negative aspects associated with it. When I think about it, "belonging" is a huge driver of prejudice and discrimination, but it is also the fuel for community, friendship, and union. As we are made up of several characteristics, there is a number of "groups" that we can "belong" to. I think it's important to remind ourselves not to fall into the trap of alienating others, as we have all been the victim of that in one way or another. . .
     
  5. Jim1454

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    This might be just a phase as well. Certainly when I first came to terms with being gay, I was very preoccupied by the whole issue. It was something that I imersed myself in - almost 'catching up' for having been in denial for so long.

    As I became more and more comfortable with myself, and being gay moved back a bit from being at the forefront of my mind, my preoccupation witih all things gay also took a step back.

    So perhaps you just want to give it time. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
     
  6. Gumtree

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    It's rather late for me, so I haven't read the other replied, but here's my thoughts.

    It seems from exerience that when people start orientating parts of their life around 'gay culture' beyond sex/love, it's for 2 reasons.

    1. Insecurity in their persona as a whole; leads a person to seek circumstances where they have an unfaultable personality trait they can fall back, so as to maintain a feeling of connectedness and acceptance.

    2. Still slightly linked to the above insecurity, I've found that people that are still not 100% accepting of their sexuality, or have not yet come out completely, are the ones that surround themself with queer culture. To me it seems likely that this because those that are not 100% accepting/comfortable with their sexuality, still fear the potential alienation that could result from ones mannerisms/tendancies in a non-queer dominant environment. Kind of like treating queer-culture is a stepping stone in between the closet and the wider society.