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Feeling left behind

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by technoddot, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. technoddot

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    Hello EC,

    :help:

    Let me start off with the basics: I'm almost 23, in college for engineering, and I enjoy it. Due to my interest area, my major doesn't attract many females. The ones that are there are already "taken," or I end up in the friend zone. I generally can nervous to talk to new people feeling for attractive people of both sexes. That probably started in high school. I've had my fair share of silent crushes on both guys and girls, but have only ever acted on some of the crushes on girls.

    A brief history on some girlfriends. In high school, I had a good girlfriend for about 3 months. We kissed a few times, that's it. She eventually broke up with me (I felt it coming, too) because "it got weird." I think this came just from how I don't know how to act when with girls. Anyway, at the time, this actually really depressed me. A few other things happened to me that school year, and I actually really wanted to kill myself, but never did that (obviously). Part of what I was going through was trying to decide if I was gay. That same year I was taking a health class, and there was a boy in it that I really liked looking at (very cautiously), but I never once approached him or anything. But all these little things (and other unmentioned events) came together that really depressed me at the time. I think I did a good job of hiding at from everyone, however. My grades were lower than usual that year, too.

    Moving onto college, my first year, I met up with a girl that I first met in first grade. We dated for a while, nothing major, but she essentially was crazy and really effed up on her part of the equation (a whole other story I'm not going into). I ended up telling her I seriously never want to ever hear from her again-- And since then no contact has been made. Again, though, questions came up about myself because this was actually my 3rd multi-month relationship that didn't last. I practically decided that I probably will never be able to hold a long term relationship.

    Then a few years ago, there was an instance of be getting completely blown off by a girl due to the friend zone situation I found myself in. I was actually OK with it at the time, and more focused on school to really get bothered by it. However, I've never spoken to her since (and we were really good friends prior to her blowing me off, which I found out was very premeditated).

    Fast forward to the last few months. I started noticing that practically all my friends are with significant others (hetero relationships). Some are engaged, some actually just got married, and some are probably going to get married. I started feeling seriously left behind. So, my best friend convinced me to get into on-line dating so I can meet people outside my typical circles. I met with one girl, but then never got to a second date. I met with a second girl and got up to 4 dates and thought things were going well, but then I got a text saying she felt no chemistry. I was OK with it for about a week. But then I somehow started just getting extremely frustrated with everything (even minor things), and it broke into a whole thought process about how I just can't act right around girls-- I try to be too nice and don't know how to appropriately interact with them other than talking with them, which may be a reason I can't keep a real relationship going.

    But moving along, that seriously brought up questions about my orientation as of last week. I was fairly depressed (but hiding it from everyone), and started researching on the internet which brought me here. I'm sort of trying to figure myself out. It almost felt like a quarter life crisis-- and I concluded I wanted to make some changes for the future-- including moving out of my parents house (but it's cheaper still living at home while in college :lol:slight_smile:

    Moreover, I find I look at about 90% gay porn (which I hide very well, of course). This is probably the largest red flag, but despite it I've tried to put those feelings away. Two years ago I even made a personal new years resolution to not look at any gay porn. I succeeded for almost 4 months, but also didn't look at hardly any porn at all in that time period. And my desire to look at gay porn probably just got stronger after that.

    I also recently found out that my best friend from high school came out about a year ago (he's at a different college). Back in middle school, this friend was actually the one that convinced me that being gay isn't a bad thing. Prior to that, I was actually strongly against "gay people" (which might have potentially come from bottled up feelings, but also because my mom is very anti-gay). I confronted him shortly after I heard he came out, and we talked for a good hour. Since he was still under the impression I was against gay people, he actually felt like I was going to bash him for it, but I assured him I was actually very supportive and he shouldn't think I'm against him. In fact we got together for some friendly beers a few weeks later. In this last week, I've been thinking this is the friend I would want to come out to should that be my conclusion.

    Overall, I don't know where I net out. In writing this I feel like I've convinced myself that I'm at least Bi, mostly since I feel attractions towards both sexes. I've seriously never put any of this in writing before now, so just writing this is a big step for me. I just wanted to hear someone else's take on my situation.

    (Sorry this was so long)
     
  2. Ethan

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    The way I see it...
    You said that you watch a lot of gay porn.
    That right there means that you are at least bi.
    The next part is up to you to decide.
    Do you enjoy straight porn? Are you legitimately attracted to women or do you only enter straight relationships because it is what society deems as "right?"
    Finding how attracted to women you actually are will help you identify your sexuality.
     
  3. ICTOAUN

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    i completely agree w nazo
     
  4. Filip

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    Hello there, and welcome to EC! Hope you'll enjoy the place and that we can be of some help!

    I think it's safe to say you're not straight. Regularly crushing on guys and a predilection for gay porn are pretty strong signs towards that. Whether that means you're bi or gay might take some more soul-searching to find out.

    However, some questions that come to my mind when reading the above that might be useful to ponder:

    - You mention getting stuck in the "friend zone" with girls. What I'm wondering is whether you really think you have a "drive" to move things forward? Did any of them (well, except for the crazy one, I guess :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:) ever push for moving faster and how did you react to that?
    To put the question into perspective: I'm told I'm good at flirting with girls. That's from a very small sample of about three girls, but apparently they thought I said the right things at the right times. However, to me, it was always a conscious effort. Enjoyable like a good discussion can be enjoyable, but except for causing someone else hurt feelings, I never felt like I would feel bad for just walking away. With guys, I have even less experience at being flirty, but it was always something that came natural. Something I really wanted to continue and keep going.

    - If you crush on guys vs girls, is the feeling any different? When you daydream about being with a girl vs with a guy, do you imagine different things?

    - This might be rather personal, but I'm going to put the question here anyway: what do you think attracts you mainly to gay porn? Do you ever imagine yourself in similar situations? And do you imagine yourself with a guy or a girl then?


    Regardless, I think the best option at working it out is to talk about it. So do stick around! Read some other people's threads and see if they resonate. 23 feels like a quarter-life crisis (or maybe a point where all engineering students get a crisis. It sounds rather similar to what I and a couple of my friends had in engineering school...), but there's no rush in coming to a conclusion.

    Otherwise, this gay friend sounds like a useful ally. It sounds similar to the first friend I came out to. He came out years beforehand, and I acted like a homophobic prick to him for months afterwards, but talking to him did wonders for getting to know myself. You don't even have to label yourself to him just yet. Just talking openly about the confusion might be of use. Being gay himself, odds are he'll understand better than most people, and he'll probably appreciate and honour a desire for secrecy.

    And last but not least, most universities have GLBT groups or clubs. Contacting them or attending a meeting might help you in being open in a non-judging environment. That can help too!


    I think I'm at risk of outdoing you for length, but I do hope the above can be of some use in figuring yourself out!
     
  5. technoddot

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    Filip,

    I've pondered your questions all day:
    - Actually, the crazy girl was probably the fastest moving relationship, and but she went crazy after like the first month, so not THAT much really happened. I may be somewhat oblivious to their pushing, I don't think I ever explicitly resisted "moving faster", though. I understand what you're saying getting at with this question, though.

    -Yes, daydreams are different. I'd say day dreams about girls are more of a long-term scenario, as in actually imagining where a relationship could go. I never really day dream really about actually being with guys. I'll continue pondering the significance of this question, though.

    -I am one of those freaks of nature that can eat anything, and never gain an ounce... I'm rather skinny. So, usually I'm looking for the same body type in my porn. I think that's how that habit got started. I imagine myself with both guys and girls at those times. One more note, though, when I said 90%, I think it came across like I look at it all the time. That isn't the case, it's just an occasional look at porn of any type. I didn't mean to draw too much attention to that data point.

    I hear you about engineering school. Right now I'm just working at an engineering position (part of my schools program), so I kind of have time to just relax here in the summer.

    Regarding my friend, I have no idea how I would ever bring the topic up with my one friend without sounding like I'm probing about it (and thus revealing where the conversation might lead).

    Yea, my university has a GLBT group, but I'm not usually a person for getting involved with such things. Usually when I go to meetings for clubs, friends go with me, and I know I'd never have the guts to go to anything like that without a friend, if nothing else than for the risk of being seen there, then labelled in some way.
     
  6. technoddot

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    (this is my second reply to this, first one never posted for some reason)

    Filip,

    I've thought about your questions all day. And it actually scared me that it seems so obvious to everyone that replied that I'm not straight. I felt rather depressed about that while I was at work today thinking about this thread.

    - I'm not sure if I have a drive to move forward. I honestly envision moving forward in the relationship. I think about how to deal with situations, such as what I'll say to them to try to move things forward, but then I never can bring myself to actually take the conversation in the direction I wanted to when actually interacting with them. I also can flirt well with girls, but only girls that I know already. I could never walk up to a girl that I don't know and just start talking to them-- far to insecure for that. I don't think it's natural for me to flirt with guys-- I joke around and get people laughing as well as the next guy, tho. I don't really put that into the flirting category, though.

    - The feeling is actually different between day dreams. When day dreaming about girls, I envision where a relationship could go. For guys, I really don't day dream much about them... but it's usually just about their physique.

    - On the topic of the porn, I want to start off by saying I don't look at it as much as it came across in my first post... it's just that of the porn I look at (from time to time), maybe 90% of it is guys. The reason I can come up with for that is that I'm a skinny guy-- I'm one of those people that can eat anything and never gain an ounce. So I tend to look at pictures of the same body type as myself. I do imagine being in similar situations as what I'm seeing, though. I feel like this data point probably was over-emphasised (or more attention drawing) in my first message.

    In regards to my one friend-- I really can't figure out how I could bring up the conversation topic without actually almost alluding to where the conversation could go. That makes me nervous-- although I think I would probably be able to trust him on the front of keeping it between us (about a 90% confidence level on that).

    My school does indeed have a GLBT club, but I truly can't see myself ever attending it. I don't usually get that involved with clubs and things-- and when I do I usually go with a friend-- Which I wouldn't be able to find for such an event.
     
  7. technoddot

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    (this is my second reply to this, first one never posted for some reason)

    Filip,

    I've thought about your questions all day. And it actually scared me that it seems so obvious to everyone that replied that I'm not straight. I felt rather depressed about that while I was at work today thinking about this thread.

    - I'm not sure if I have a drive to move forward. I honestly envision moving forward in the relationship. I think about how to deal with situations, such as what I'll say to them to try to move things forward, but then I never can bring myself to actually take the conversation in the direction I wanted to when actually interacting with them. I also can flirt well with girls, but only girls that I know already. I could never walk up to a girl that I don't know and just start talking to them-- far to insecure for that. I don't think it's natural for me to flirt with guys-- I joke around and get people laughing as well as the next guy, tho. I don't really put that into the flirting category, though.

    - The feeling is actually different between day dreams. When day dreaming about girls, I envision where a relationship could go. For guys, I really don't day dream much about them... but it's usually just about their physique.

    - On the topic of the porn, I want to start off by saying I don't look at it as much as it came across in my first post... it's just that of the porn I look at (from time to time), maybe 90% of it is guys. The reason I can come up with for that is that I'm a skinny guy-- I'm one of those people that can eat anything and never gain an ounce. So I tend to look at pictures of the same body type as myself. I do imagine being in similar situations as what I'm seeing, though. I feel like this data point probably was over-emphasised (or more attention drawing) in my first message.

    In regards to my one friend-- I really can't figure out how I could bring up the conversation topic without actually almost alluding to where the conversation could go. That makes me nervous-- although I think I would probably be able to trust him on the front of keeping it between us (about a 90% confidence level on that).

    My school does indeed have a GLBT club, but I truly can't see myself ever attending it. I don't usually get that involved with clubs and things-- and when I do I usually go with a friend-- Which I wouldn't be able to find for such an event.
     
  8. technoddot

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    bump. Had trouble posting originally, and now that it posted, I think I've ended up too far back for people to see the post.

    Also, can a mod delete the dup post? Thanks.
     
  9. Filip

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    Seems the forum messed up somehow... and I was away for the weekend, as I do have some semblance of a social life sometimes :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
    Anyways, glad I checked the pages past the first one and saw you replied.

    Some further thoughts:

    - First of all (for fear of making you uncomfortable by starting with this one), I do find your answer to the porn question an interesting one. I remember using the exact same rationalisation as you did: "I'm really more looking at guys who are the same as me. It's more of a physical insecurity thing than a sexual attraction..."
    Fact of the matter remains that, to put it bluntly, I was still getting off to images of naked guys :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
    Now, you might not watch a lot of porn, but I can't help finding the things people do when they're alone and sure no one's watching or judging rather relevant.

    - As for your friend: I was actually supposing that telling him would be the thing to aim for in the first place. To be frank, there's little chance of you trying to hint without him noticing. If people ask me how I knew I was gay, it's really only in one of two circumstances: I just came out to them, or they're really doubting themselves. So yes, if you ask him questions like that, he'll be on to you in a matter of minutes.
    That really doesn't have to be a bad thing, though. If he can keep quiet (90% sounds like reasonable odds), he still is a guy that knows your background, and might be able to pose the right questions or make the right observations.
    First time I talked to my friend about my confusion, we didn't even use the terms "gay" or "bi", even. Most of the conversation was really just me feeling rather vulnerable, and him affirming that, no matter how I'd turn out, it gets better. Which was just what I needed at the time, really.

    - It can be an interesting exercise to purposefully daydream about relationships with guys. No one reads daydreams, so you can indulge in them guilt-free. But yet, it's easy to block off certain directions and force ourselves into others. Especially for fear of "turning gay" even over indulging in gay daydreams.
    So, maybe just try indulging in one and see where it leads. This cute guy in health class asks you out, you say yes and.. etc.
    Again, maybe this line of thinkign doesn't go anywhere, but it could be one more useful piece of the puzzle

    - One other line of thoughts: why does the thought of maybe not being straight depress you? Are there rational grounds why it would be a bad idea? Or is there just a vague notion of "I'm supposed to be straight" or "it will be tough if people find out"?


    Rereading the above, I really hope I'm not coming across like I'm trying to "convert" you to homosexuality or bisexuality. That couldn't be further from my intent.
    Yet, I can't help but feel that (as you say in your preface) you pondered it, got scared about what you might find, and are now starting to reinterpret the data to look for clues of being as straight as possible. I spent years and years doing that myself, so I can't help but feel inclined to push a bit further.
    For the record, though: figuring yourself out takes time, but time is one thing you have in abundance. So there's really no reason to feel pressured or anxious or depressed here!
     
  10. technoddot

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    I appreciate the reply, Filip--

    I think just from the amount of thought I've put into "how things would be different," then more so the "how things wouldn't be different". What I mean by that is I could see still being terrible at the whole relationship thing-- not to mention how much more difficult it'd be to meet someone of the gay/bi orientation-- Fear of failure no matter what I do. That's probably my rational thought on that. But, as you said, there's also how people would accept me (or not). I think I'd be ok with most of my friends... but I could see some having problems with it. My family is definitely not going to be cool with it... and I would not approach that until I'm out of the house for sure, when I don't have to live with the constant ridicule (when I can stop caring what they really think). My social life could change drastically, and I don't know if I'd be ready for that.

    I probably ask "what if" too much. And I probably spend too much time doing that, then just conclude "whatever" and go with the flow, per say.
     
  11. technoddot

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    Happy Birthday, Filip.

    So, I met with my friend today for a few beers... I went into it honestly thinking I could bring up this conversation topic... but I completely failed-- I could not bring myself to even bring it up with him at all (even after a few beers). I'm actually disappointed in myself, because I really wanted to get his input on the matter.

    I just thought I'd ask for advice on how to even start talking about this stuff in person.