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Leave it to me...

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Tracy Lord, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. Tracy Lord

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    ...to end up being part of not one, but two, of the least understood and accepted groups on the planet. I couldn't just be gay; that would be fairly straightforward. My wife has been quite understanding. I'm sure we could have worked that out easy. We may not have even had to split. I could totally see us living together and continuing to raise our son in the same house.

    But I had to be attracted to both girls AND boys. The rejections by heteros was expected. The ignorance and, sometimes, rejection by gays was not. Just accepting this part of myself was hard enough. I have never really felt a part of anything in my entire life. I was kind of hoping that part of this whole deal would be finding a community or at least a social circle where I fit in. In just over two weeks, I have discovered that that's just wishful thinking.

    And as if that wasn't enough, I have gender identity issues as well. But even that couldn't be straightforward, as I didn't just wake up and realize, "I'm really a woman." I have enough feminine to make me considered not masculine enough by most people, yet I don't at all identify enough as a woman to be considered a T.

    I was so hopeful and so excited and so...free. And then reality set in and it all seemed to come crashing down.

    And then some a$$hole on this board decides to tell me how much easier I had it because I grew up straight and not gay and how mundane the joys I have actually found in this life are. So much for "safe." I can't even be who I am *here* without getting $hit from people.
     
  2. ArcaneVerse

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    The thing is when we are all trying to be ourselves its no longer a safe place for anyone. There are no safe places, everywhere has their own pros and cons and we are all guilty of providing those cons.

    Is EC completely safe? of course not but it is probably one of the few good places to go, don't let the opinions of a few outweigh everything else this place has to offer.

    Honestly there are a few people on here who I cant stand but then there are many who are so totally amazing that it makes it so worth staying. What you have to do is find the people here that you do get along with and focus your attention on them, ignore those that you don't mesh well with and move on with better things.
     
  3. Tracy Lord

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    I know, I know, I'm not generally this sensitive; I'm just so incredibly raw at the moment, that everything is affecting me quite severely. I feel like the boy in the bubble. I feel like I can't go anywhere without getting injured, but I know I can't back off from all this, I have to press forward, otherwise I'll go back to living in that internal tower of misery.

    I want to cry and that's the worst part; I've been told and have told myself for so many years that I'm not supposed to that that now...I can't.
     
  4. Mirko

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    Hi there! First off, (*hug*), and I am pretty sure that the member who talked to you and made the comment didn't mean to offend you.

    You know, coming out and having this life changing experience can cause a lot of stress and also cause an emotional toll on you. As you go through the process of acceptance, understanding yourself at a deeper level, and coming out, you will go through a number of emotional roller coaster rides (as you are realizing). Take it easy and slow. One of the things I always like to suggest is to take it day by day. Don't worry about the weekend or next week. Trying to take a step back and taking it slow, has helped me numerous times.

    If you feel or want to cry, do that. Let your emotions out. If you are angry at yourself, let the anger out. Take a pillow and give it a few good punches. Once you have done that, go for a long walk in a park or around an area that is quiet where you can collect your thoughts again. While you walk, take deep breaths (so that you feel them).

    You have mentioned a couple of important point, including that you need to move forward. That is important. You know that you needed to be yourself. You have started the process because you knew that you needed to be honest with yourself and with those around you. You are realizing that you also need to come to terms with your gender identity, which in itself is something important to realize.

    Things will take time. Building up a social circle where you feel that you fit in, will take some time. But as you keep working on that, you will eventually achieve that.

    Things will work out. (*hug*)
     
  5. Chip

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    I wonder if maybe whatever was said touched something really deep in you and perhaps got you in touch with some fear or anger about that issue, and that, in turn, caused you to get angry at the person or what they said as a projection to your own anger.

    I'm sure you know the 5 stages of grief (denial-anger-bargaining-grief-acceptance), so is it possible that the "grew up being straight" touched a nerve about the idea that maybe you *aren't* being authentic with yourself, even now? And/or that you have a strong fear about letting the emotions out, and anything that brings them up is, in itself, really scary?

    I agree with Mirko that, as much as you've trained yourself to not let the feelings out, you have to do so. It will feel foreign, unsafe, terrifying... and maybe the fear is, if you start, you'll never stop. That's very common amongst people in your situation. But of course, it's an unfounded fear.

    Keep communicating about what's coming up. Let people know (as you've done) where you're sensitive about things, and over time, I think you'll find yourself feeling safer AND feeling safer letting the feelings up.
     
  6. Tracy Lord

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    >I wonder if maybe whatever was said touched something really deep in you and perhaps got you in touch with some fear or anger about that issue, and that, in turn, caused you to get angry at the person or what they said as a projection to your own anger. >

    No, it wasn't about me and I don't wish to have to defend or justify myself on the point. If you have read the posts in question, I welcome specific comments (in a PM if that's more appropriate). I was vague in my original post because I wished only to express my hurt over the situation, not start a big food fight about it in public. That didn't seem the right way to go with it.
     
  7. Robert

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    Most of us are here to learn about ourselves, gender identity and sexuality.
    It is inevitable that people will initially not understand certain things to do with other peoples own personal experiences. We are all here to learn but we are also here to teach each other. I have only been around this forum for quite a short period of time but my understanding of my own sexuality and my understanding of the LGBT community has increased greatly. But, at the same time, I know that I still have a lot to learn.

    It is frustrating when people think they know something about you better than you do but it is, perhaps, in some instances, understandable considering the environment that exists in this forum.

    Basically, what I'm trying to say is that this forum is full of homo-newbs. Forgive them for they know not what they do.
     
  8. Tracy Lord

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    >Forgive them for they know not what they do.

    lol

    Fair enough, CS. Thanks...
     
  9. IanGallagher

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    Definitely know what that's like. When I was first coming out and interacting with guys, I thought all gay guys would be accepting. Then I learned about biphobia. It's not easy, but I've come to joke around about it thinking some people see me as mythological as a minotaur. That's about the best I can do with it. I've always been blessed with sarcastic deflecting wit whenever scared or hurt.
     
  10. Tracy Lord

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    OK, so things just got even more complicated (as if that were possible). It turns out that once the conversation moved from hypothetical to closer to reality, the wife has changed her mind about how she feels about everything.

    Through a weird coincidence, I ran into a guy this week that I knew. He's like something out of a D&G ad and definitely someone I want to get to know better.

    Well, I showed her his fb picture (per our discussion; she wanted me to be open with her about everything) and I guess that triggered a whole bunch of stuff for her. She is NOT as OK with all this as she originally said. Not that I'm upset with her about it; I totally get it. I was actually surprised that she was being as calm and cool as she was. Not that she was supressing anything. I honestly think she didn't realize how she actually felt until a real life situation came up. After all, it's much easier to talk about hypotheticals; it can be much more difficult when the actual situation arises.

    So I'm in kind of a bind here. On the one hand, I wouldn't sacrifice my marriage for anything; on the other, I don't know what it would do to me if I could never experience guys; it would feel like going back to repressing and supressing myself. That said, this is all pretty new and I'm dealing with a lot of shit all at the same time. I'm sure we'll figure something out over time.

    But I'd be lying if I said it wasn't killing my buzz a little bit (so to speak).
     
  11. IanGallagher

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    No idea. Part of the reason I'm starting young. I'm able to do whatever in my twenties, so I can remain faithful in my thirties. I guess you could tell her it would be a "one time thing" if you could do that -- not to play devil's advocate, but she'd probably feel the same way if it was a woman as well.
     
  12. Robert

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    Its a clear cut choice. Its either you stay with your wife and never have a sexual experience with a guy or its have sexual experiences with guys and lose your wife. No one here can give you a better answer than you can give yourself. But do yourself a favour and dont even consider that you can have sex with a man and then go back to your wife - in the whole history of the universe that plan has never worked.
     
  13. ArcaneVerse

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    There are other options that can and do work, provided everyone involved is on-board, If you want to experience sex with another man and still have your wife to come home to, there are two options I can think of.

    First one is having an open relationship with your wife (even if its temporary), now probably isn't the best time to bring it up but it is an option, just needs to be handled correctly and making sure your wife still knows you love her.

    Second option is a separation, that way you can have some time to figure things out for yourself and explore your sexuality without feeling guilty about it and also to give some space to your wife so she can sort out how she really feels about all this.
     
  14. Jim1454

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    I cheated and I wish I hadn't. I'd strongly encourage you to figure out what you want in the long term and base your decisions on that.

    Sex is optional. There isn't a requirement for you to be sexually active with either sex. So if you're attraction to men is so great that you're not sure you're going to be able to live with yourself (or your wife) then perhaps you're not as bisexual as you think. You perhaps lean to the gay side.

    Have you spoken with a therapist about any of this?

    I can totally understand your wife's reaction and I think you have it nailed. The hypothetical is one thing, but reality is another. Plus, she's had time to think about this.

    Remember though that it took you a long time to get where you are now. It's going to take more than a couple of weeks for you to work it all out in your head and with your wife.
     
  15. Robert

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    http://emptyclosets.com/forum/870458-post10.html <read
     
  16. ArcaneVerse

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    Your point?

    All that was said in that post is that his wife was freaked out when he said he found this guy attractive. Sure you could read into it that they had planned on having an open relationship but it wasn't clearly stated, so I didn't make assumptions and gave my advice accordingly.
     
  17. starfish

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    I remember that feeling. It is like coming back from vacation and going back to work. Though it is better to have had those feelings, then to have never had them.

    That last sentence is not true. You are the one that decides your gender, not anyone else.

    Others may try to force a label on you. They are the ones that are wrong not you. They don't have the right to choose your identity. If they don't like the identity you choose for your self, then fuck 'em.

    There is a school of thought, that I rather like, that we have two genders. The one that our physical body is, and the one that our mind is. These can be the same, or they can each be different. When they are different it causes us stress as we try to reconcile the differences. The way to deal with it is to reconcile the differences. What the differences are only you can answer. It could just be that you simply don't fit into the gender binary system, or it could be that your body gender and mind gender don't mesh at all. It could be somewhere in the middle or maybe you are both. To boil down my point, just be yourself.
     
  18. Tracy Lord

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    Jim1454: "Remember though that it took you a long time to get where you are now. It's going to take more than a couple of weeks for you to work it all out in your head and with your wife."

    I agree. She's got a lot of other things going on with work that's affecting her health, so there's that, too. Part of what can be difficult about marriage is balancing your pressing issue with your partner's pressing issues.

    We're both seeing really great therapists for our individual issues and I think it would be a good idea for us to find one to see together about this. The more I think about it, the dumber it seems to try to fumble around in the dark on our own with this.

    starfish: "That last sentence is not true. You are the one that decides your gender, not anyone else. "

    I get that, I do. What I meant by it is that it makes things that much more confusing when you *don't* fit a standard definition. If I realized I was simply gay, for example, or that I was really a woman, that would be more straightforward. While those paths are not easy, they do seem more clear than what I'm dealing with here. Which isn't to whine, just to say it's frustrating not being sure what to do next. So when you say, "To boil down my point, just be yourself," I'm still trying to figure out what my self actually is. And not only is it difficult for me, it makes it difficult for my wife, because she's having to ride this rollercoaster with me, not really knowing where it's going. As scary as it is for me, it has to be at least twice as scary for her.

    ---------- Post added 6th Jul 2011 at 08:33 AM ----------

    CS, check out this article that just came out in the NY Times Magazine when you get a chance. I think there are *a lot* more options.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/03/magazine/infidelity-will-keep-us-together.html?_r=2&ref=magazine
     
  19. Tracy Lord

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    Well, on the one hand, it's getting uglier by the day. On the other hand, we've agreed to allow our therapists (who know each other) to consult with one another. I hope that helps.
     
  20. Tracy Lord

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    In case anyone's interested, she had a rather major personal breakthrough last night. It's a long story, but she cried, I cried, and I think everything's going to be OK.