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just sorting out my feelings

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by jddvtm, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. jddvtm

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    i originally signed up to this forum and started this conversation: http://emptyclosets.com/forum/anonymous-discussions/50235-questioning-myself-real-now.html.

    in weighing my writings, i realized physically i am bisexual with a lean towards more comfort ability with a man for several reasons. the first reason is i don't feel judged as much, and its easier, and more laid back, and less pressure about a relationship, at least from my perspective. I also like the hook ups with no strings attached horniess. I like that. I am also open to things without emotionally being ethically challenged. i also don't have all the baggage in the background of kids, family, marriage, infidelity, religion, and all that other stuff when it comes to sex and commitment.

    when it comes to women, i enjoy sex with a women, and it takes me some time to trust women sexually. the more comfortable, the better the sex. i have to be comfortable, because i do tend to fall in love with women i sleep with and i also tend to not be the hook up type, i do, but i think its wrong because of what I was taught as a kid with women, however women want to hook up just as much, but it feels like a landmine sometimes because I never know what I am going to get with a woman emotionally, so although I may love her, it may just be challenging. once i sleep with a woman i feel like i own her in a biblical sense where as with a guy its pretty much equal and understanding if that makes sense.

    when it comes to porn i can get off on either or, but i tend to focus more on gay fantasy than straight for a variety of reasons. for one, a lot of sexual fantasy online with women is just really unreal to me. with men it seems more realistic and more likely as with experience it has happened. sex seems more easily available so i lean more towards the idea of gay sex fantasy, which I enjoy. i do like looking at women models and can get off on women, but it is less exciting. i do like things about women, legs, face, breasts, and overall sexiness and soft feel.

    i realize two things when reflecting on this because of my confusion. the first is my honest homophobia. i never realized it but i am extremely homophobic and need some direction in not being homophobic towards myself or others without fear. the second one is, i care to much about what other people think of me or my partners and i need to stop doing that.
     
    #1 jddvtm, Aug 22, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2011
  2. Marlowe

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    I think you bring up two really important points that I think many people face as they try to understand their own sexual orientation and what this means for them as a member of a broader society. The former was one something I struggled with and the latter is one that still burdens me.

    It is a great start that you have recognized that you have an internalize homophobia. Your skill at self-reflection and awareness will help you a lot in trying to overcome this. First try to figure out what you mean by “homophobia.” I read some of your older posts, and I doubt you mean it in the sense of calling people derogatory things based upon their perceived sexual orientation. Rather I would suspect that you, like myself and many others (there are plenty of threads on this), are uncomfortable with the stereotypes and expectations society has cooked up for you as a male as and separately as someone who is not straight.

    My problem was that I was a guy who happened to like other guys. I didn’t want my homosexuality to define me. It was just a small facet of who I was. I was also unattracted to the culture of more flamboyant gays who were the most visible subset of gays. Media portrayals often make gays flamboyant and have their homosexuality as the central aspect of their persona. Furthermore, the gays you probably notice are the ones that stick out rather than blend in. It took me a while to accept the idea that I didn’t have to change by accepting myself. Until this happened though, I had a lot of hateful feelings toward myself and toward others who reminded me that I was gay, even if I never did or wanted to express them.

    As for worrying about other people, I think it is genuinely true that you have to accept yourself before you can feel comfortable about what others think about you. I used to worry about what other people would think once I came out, but as I accepted that I was gay more and more I realized that a lot of my fears were just projections onto others of my own inability to be cool with being gay.

    Keep trying to figure out what is going on. Writing it down helps a lot. As I stopped being in denial, I started writing in a journal and the act of writing forced me to put into words abstract thoughts that had been stewing in my mind.
     
  3. jddvtm

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    thank you for your response and the compliments. this is a long reflection and rant.

    when i say homophobia, I mean fear of me being gay, in a way a shock, a, I can't f****** believe it. No way. No, I can't be gay. Hell no. Crap, I hope nobody finds out. Then who am i supposed to talk to? I feel alone and I can't talk to anyone about this (this comes from family background and mr tough guy identity). Also because of being gay it would some how make me weak and it would explain all of my life failures some how.

    I remember the first time it happened. Gay jokes have existed since I was a little kid from my grandpa's ww2 tough guy to my Dad's tough guy steel working mentality, its just the family i come from. i was a little kid once and my grandpa, i remember being a jerk about me being left handed because it would mean i was gay. and i remember at the time, just as a little kid thinking, wtf? I understood he meant like boys. One time, I had a friend spend the night and rather then clean up the top bunk i said sleep in this bunk... I didn't think anything of it in a gay way, but i did like the companionship, I was younger than 15. I am an only child. I once saw mud on a friends butt and i told him, and he flamed me for looking at his ass. I never thought I was gay, I just thought, man that's weird, the guy just had mud on his ass, I would want to be told if i had mud on my ass. Then again maybe he knew and I was some how subliminally supposed to know that. guy code i guess. never look at another mans body parts hence your gayness.

    In my high school there were a couple of gay guys. I was curious about them. One guy was a weirdo, no pun intended but he had some issues, and I didn't like him because he was friends with some rival kids down the street, and naturally I did kind of sort of use that against them. I think i was more jealous of him because he had more girls than I did. I don't really remember that conflict so much. The other guy was pretty cool, just did his thing and had some good female friends. I don't think anyone screwed with him. Shocking as I come from a rough neighborhood/high school.

    back to the homophobia. the first time i experienced a gay sexual encounter was on a chatroom as a teenager (15). After I got off on the experience, I was shocked and scared, in complete disbelief. The man told me to check out another chat, and I did out of natural curiosity to my arousal and response and from there I continued the experience of cybersex to phone sex to physical on occasion. I could never tell my mom and i hid it. After the chat, I have always felt robbed of my sexuality because it was sporadic, and it just kind of happened, there was no leading up to it. Afterwards, I continued to do it, and I enjoyed it, but was afraid, and am afraid to tell other people i enjoy it.

    when i reflect more on homosexuality, i think more about the things that would make you gay. for example, i probably slept with a lot more women to prove something to myself, although I enjoyed it, I probably didn't need to be flighty in my choices, or as easy as I was. I remember rushing to get my penis in, just because I was worried about losing my sexual arousal with a woman and being identified as, "different" or "not a real man". Yet, I still enjoyed it, but was and am very anxious about it. In college it was norm to drink and hook up and if i wasn't I sure was beating off to gay porn and calling myself gay for being a failure. I know its sick, but its the truth. I would beat my little dick like crazy.

    when you look at the attributes of a manly man, that ideology in my head where I have failed screams to me in my homophobic state of mind, the fear of being gay more than anything against gays. For one, my idea of a manly man is a hard man, tough, emotionally strong, witty, and a man who gets any woman he wants, a leader, someone who rarely fails, a fantasy, big strong muscles, great looking, and perfect, really inhuman, a god if you will, someone who is invulnerable to reality and life's harsh environmental contract. some men they ride motorcycles, they go to strip clubs, they date hot women, they act arrogant, they like sports, such as football, ufc, soccer, they are in the military, all these ideas, if i don't measure up to any of these conditions, if I want to read the book titled, "left neglected", I ask myself is this something a real man would read, a non gay one? when i am out at a party, in my head i think, "man I hope, I don't look gay", "i sure hope noone finds out about my gayness", "man I bet she thinks I'm gay", if I say the wrong thing in a group, I bet those guys think I'm gay. Or I better gloat about my toughness and toot my own horn.

    when i go to look at motorbikes with a friend with no problems in the sexuality department, and a fantasy in my head and they are all looking at bikes and they crack a joke when i am looking at a moped, do i take offense and go look at a motorbike i cannot afford or have no real desire in because I don't really care? do i pretend anymore for the sake of proving my masculinity? It's like the alcohol in college, you know guys egging the other on to, drink more for the sake of masculinity! or is it when a friend whispers in your ear, "would you fuck her", and with no feelings or though, you respond, "yes, absolutely, I would f*** the shit out of her".

    seesh. its almost like a fire in the belly. in the past week I had two homo incidents. One guy said homo to be and a friend walking down a walk where there are tons of people together after dinner. I wanted to say, "hey man there was this study done that said the guy who is the most homophobic is the gayest". He also during dinner had this pathetic joke about a roommate being gay, almost gloating about it, and now that I think about it, I kind of question his sexuality, I mean who cares and why do you have to one up the guy? He's a one upper. Wanna be alpha male. Next, I think I mentioned it before but me and a friend were out having a smoke outside of a bar, when a co worker and her husband walks by and he say's homo's. In my head I thought, yeah if I was, what would you do about it? I didn't say anything of course, but now I'm kind of thinking I need to say something and I want to say something when it is randomly thrown out like that. It is one thing to say it jokingly against each other in a light hearted manner, but out of nowhere, I think I need to set some boundaries from now on for the difference, and there is a difference.

    In reflection I feel two fears, acceptance from non-identifying homosexuals and bisexuals, and rejection and turning off women based on who I am.
     
  4. Filip

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    Well, I don't think it's homophobia so much as the overwhelming urge to conform and to fit in. It's hardly unusual and a lot of people have it. And I guess it's especially strong if you come from a rough neighbourhood where you risk actually getting beat up for not conforming.

    And maybe there's a bit of trying to overcompensate for a lack of confidence there too: you don't feel confident about (being accepted as) who you are, but you feel like these idealised men are totally confident and at ease, so you're trying to mimic their behaviour in the hope of becoming as confident and at ease as they are.

    But the thing is: if there really are guys like that, and if they are really confident and at ease and in control (instead of angsting about it late at night hoping no one will find out it's all an act :wink:), then that's not because of what they do, but because they live life the way they want.

    So, as Marlowe said, ideally, this is what you might want to do too. Instead of sitting at home, telling yourself that no one should ever find out, look in the mirror and say: "So yeah, I like guys. Guess that makes me bi or gay. And really, I don't f*cking care what the rest thinks of that. Anyone having a problem with that can go sod off for all I care!".
    I fail to see what's weak or not confident and in control about that.

    Much the same with coming out (though there's no need to rush coming out either). If you treat it like it's no big deal, friends are likely to not find it such a big deal either. Before coming out, I had regular weekly drinks at the pub with my friends. We met up for hanging out. We wrestled each other to the ground in judo practice. We used to talk about all kinds of stuff. And after I came out... nothing much changed. I still do all of these things. Only I don't have to pretend I'm into girls, and they don't seem to mind what I do in the privacy of my own room and whether I do it with girls or with guys.

    In short: don't hold yourself to an imaginary standard: try to be who you are, and confidence and acceptance will follow from there!
     
  5. jddvtm

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    @ FLip - you are right, just be cool about it. :icon_bigg