gender-fluid

You say you feel like your gender is frequently changing, but never in your post did you mention any particular affinity for the male identity or taking any pleasure/comfort in assuming that identity, except for possibly when you mentioned wishing you could "switch back and forth at will". Do you find any pleasure/comfort/solace in the male identity? If so, then gender-fluid sounds like the right verdict; if not, well, we'll cross that bridge if/when you say it's there.

Now, you say that you are trying to create a sense of self that encapsulates both genders (or neither) but won't affect the way you present yourself. While these things are hard to separate, here's the key to remember: how you present yourself is a reflection, successful or otherwise, of your sense of self. It isn't the other way around: your sense of self is not a reflection of how you present yourself. Regardless of how you present yourself, whether you dress in a gender-typical way or a more stereotypically gay way or in a cross-dressing way or in a genderfuck way, that doesn't change who you are on the inside, and it certainly doesn't change your gender identity. Now, dressing in a certain way might give you insight into your gender identity as you gain practical experience with how you feel with presenting your gender in different ways, but that won't change who you fundamentally are.

I say all that to suggest that, for now, you narrow your self-searching to the task of creating a sense of self. It is, without a doubt, the harder of the two tasks you have set out for yourself, but once you do it, once you have created a sense of self that you are truly comfortable with, you just might find that your outward appearance just doesn't matter as much. And if that doesn't happen, if you care just as much about your outward appearance as you did before, your newly strengthened sense of self will make navigating that issue less mysterious than it is for you now.

 

I'm really sorry posting in this thread because I've basically just read the OP and am kind of rushed so I don't have time to read it all before posting, but I can really really relate to you on this Dhamma.

The first thing that made me feel "not straight" was me pretending to be a girl online. This was before I had hit puberty, and there was no sexual aspect, it was kind of like a butterflies in my stomach feel. It made me feel kind of tingly in good. I started to desire to be a female, and I still do, but the desire has kind of fluctuated, sometimes its UNBEARABLY strong. Other times its just a faint whisper I can barely hear. Yet I never really feel "uncomfortable" as I am.

I've considered doing drag, but whether I decided to do that, or transition, or anything of that nature, I would only do it if its convincing. Sure putting on the makeup and clothes is fun and all, but what I really want is to be PERCEIVED as a female.

Those are just my initial feelings though, and trust me Dhamma, I'm just as lost as you on this. Hopefully I'll be able to reply in more detail later tonight.

 

Hey sorry I was rushed earlier, and didn't really get to read anything besides your initial post. In your second one you discussed imagining yourself as a female while you are fantasizing. This is something that I used to do a lot too. While I was masturbating I would actually imagine myself being penetrated and try to envision myself actually like, using a dildo or something =/

I've always had a fascination with gender transformation stuff online, and have tried listening to stuff like gender transformation or feminization hypnosis.

I actually just went to a "fluidity" meeting for my school's GLBTSS group. it wasn't as helpful as I expected. There were only two other people there, and while I enjoyed talking to them, I was hoping they would have some advice or something to help me figure myself out, but they really didn't. I don't know what I was expecting but I feel more confused then ever.

 

All I can say really is that I feel more or less the same as you. Except for the part about being attracted to guys, which I am not. But the identity part describes me almost exactly.

A girl I met a while back at a public event is also in the same gender-fluid state. I have read her story and she also considered transitioning but decided not to in the end. There is a lot of us around in that state, and I think it is time to acknowledge this middle ground more and accept it.

The gender-binary is very dominant in our society even if it is getting a bit diluted over here now, much thanks to the gay community. Most of my friends are rather openminded and don't seem to care much about the binary, So times are maybe getting better? Plenty of people are pushing back at the gender binary at least. In the end everyone is better off just being themselves.

In any case, what annoys me the most at the moment is that I can't buy and wear the clothes I'd like to buy for the fall because they're for girls ... they get all the nice stuff! :tantrum:

 

My problem, I think, is that my gender expression as it is naturally is quite feminine while my gender identity is more ambiguous. Being physically male severely restricts my options, so in a sense I think I'd be much better off if I was physically female. But as you say, transitioning is quite drastic, so I am not planning on it even though I in many ways would like to.

... yeah it's complicated.

 

I can see how Buddhism plays in here. If I were to believe in a religion, I'd pick Buddhism for the hope of rebirth into a more appropriate body. It is very appealing. I'd like to believe in an eternal soul being reborn over and over in this universe, but I also realise it is more wishful thinking. Still I like to play with the idea, and as a SciFi fan, I always enjoy it when they do in SciFi too as they do in Babylon5 for instance.

Or just wake up in the morning as a girl ... yeah, been there a million times

My biggest concern at the moment is that I struggle with male-female relationships. I'm starting to believe I'd do much better if I was female. Now when I'm with a girl I have to be a guy and all that which comes with that. I can do it all right, but it's just meh.

 

Ugh, I can relate to you guys so much that its depressing. If I could wake up and be a girl I would chose that any day of the week. I just don't know if I'm truly transsexual. Talking in that fluidity thing yesterday reinforced that I'm probably bigender or something like that (100% sure I'm not gender queer because when I want to be a girl I want to be a GIRL!, something in between doesn't sound appealing...)

I just don't know what kind of lifestyle is good for someone bigender. Like, if the feeling of wanting to be female comes and goes, its not like you can choose to be female one day and not the next. I still feel like I'd be much happier as a girl. Girls have less social restrictions from my opinion. All the time I see things I wish I could do as a girl (make-up, dresses, etc) but I can't think of ANYTHING I can do now that I couldn't as a female. Not one. Plus not to come off as crude but I wish I could make love with my bf facing each other =(

 

Yes, I knew that. I am simply cherrypicking ideas that I like and jumbling them up. I am aware that what I wrote does not fit wholly into Buddhism

Absolutely. Unfortunately society limits our options in that sense it wants us to pick a box to crawl into :/

---------- Post added 12th Oct 2011 at 11:59 PM ----------

It is more about what basket I have the most eggs in I think. Being a tomboyish girls is probably my best fit. I've known a few of them, especially one I knew about 10 years ago. They're like soulmates or twin sisters to me.

It is not so much that it comes and goes. More like I ignore it for a while until it builds up. Also I don't think I agree girls have less social restrictions. On the contrary, as a whole they do not. However they have more freedom in ways of dressing. The socially enforced rule that masculinity is superior to femininity on one hand is horribly sexist, but it also restrict people like us in the sense that it is more socially accepted for a girl to be tomboyish than for guys to be feminine. I guess that last bit is the point you were getting at. However there is a huge backside to this little plus.

 

Veronica, what you said about it building up is pretty much exactly how I feel.

Also, that "little plus" seems pretty important to me. I'm not saying we don't still live in a sexist world, yet I'd happily deal with the disadvantages.

 

Hmm - just stumbled across this thread - new member and all of that Jazz..

Just intruiged me that I'm seeing a lot of the same names: JonSnow - Veronica and Dhamma in particular - cropping up whenever potentially trans/gender-fuild topics come up.

Now of course there's an obvious explanation for this - you all have some kind of personal connection to these issues, I'm just wondering how much it costs to buy a club membership, and why we don't have a thread to introduce all of us who are wrestling with changing genders, to one another.

The gay's of both denominations seem to be in particular force on this site - and good for them - , but I was thinking that it might be nice to have a thread just for gender-confused peoples - or maybe I'm just blind and there allready is one.

 

Props on your spiritual state of mind OP! You're not the only one here.

To explain to the other genderqueer, Buddhism is not a religion nor does reincarnation detail a specific YOU being reborn over and over again. At least my understanding, is that there are eternal states of mind and not a YOU or I. Language helps me explain that there are obviously varieties of human, two of which are you and I. But our minds are universal and our experiences shape us into something that meets a particular thing and feels a state of mind.

Whether it be concern about money, getting wicked munchies, or wanting to sell your keychain. Everyone is free to have that experience and it's not isolated to an individual. Hopefully that makes sense.

On the topic at hand, I don't really know what to say. I go through the same thing, am fairly feminine and find it kind of hard to accept this middle ground since it is not recognized in our society. Well it is, but we are labelled as confused or weird not as just another kind of person. I try to ignore having to take a side since I like how I am anyway, sans the five o'clock shadow and envying girls for having 100x more variety in clothes than men.

The only thing that scares me is getting old. I try to accept it but man it's really gonna suck getting gray and hairy and definitely not girly.

 

Well, I think this is one of the such threads you are discussing. It does seem like every so often someone posts a thread like this, and the same certain people jump in (myself included) but perhaps the problem is that there isn't one general thread for it. There's a bunch of ones and everyone kind of comes in, says how they relate and they wish they had more advice, and then the thread dies lol

 

*Directed at Jon Snow* *apologies for stealing the thread OP!*

Mhm, see that's what I suspected was happening. No offence to anyone of the myriad of different denominations on this site, but it does feel like the "T"'ers at least merit their own thread...Perhaps I'll start one once I'm done with these exams (final high-school exams) . It would be nice to just have a...mind-dump...of all the issues trans people are struggling with right at this moment, and see if we can help each other out, or at least lessen that sense of isolation that seems prevalent everywhere.

 

This is a great thread.

I was born a 'male'. I told my girlfriend a few months ago that I was a bisexual female, but i enjoyed having a penis lol, she did some research and found the term gender fluid, and i think it fits me perfect and so does she. It took me a long time , over a decade to finally figure out what i really was, growing up i had fantasies about being a girl, and sometimes i didnt. I like girls, and i like guys, I feel like a girl sometimes, and other times i feel like a guy lol, and im sexually attracted to both. I feel more physically male of course, but i mostly feel more mentally female. but it changes a lot .I don't have any urge to physically change genders though. I enjoy the male role in life lol,

anyway thanks to everyone who posted. Just one question to those who say they would like to change genders physically, are you bisexual and would stay bisexual if you did change?