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Help needed desperately!

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by unknown12, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. unknown12

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    So I always knew I was different ever since I was in middle school, but I never knew what was different about me. When I was little this one girl had a MAJOR crush on me. she made her feelings know, I went over to her house occasionally, it was almost like we were dating. All my guy friends would always ask “why are you not going out with her, do you not like her?” After this happened, I came to the conclusion that I did not have feelings for her. I shrugged off incident until, mid middle school. I kinda liked this one girl, only because I wanted affection, because I was being relentlessly bullied. She agreed to go out. after a week or so, she said the same words the other girl said “you are different than any of my other boyfriends”. I did not get why at the time, I played soccer, went to church and participated in youth group at church.

    I did not know what could be wrong, until I fully hit puberty. I began to experiment, I kept on being in denial and saying that this was a phase and that it would end soon. But nothing changed until today. I still only watch gay porn and has a weird attraction to guys. my mom also caught me looking at guys when I was in middle school, she look of disappointment on her face about made me cry. i told her that I would stop. I tried for a week and caved in. She does not know that I caved in, she thinks that it was a phase that i overcame a long time ago. I just do not want to see that look on her face again, but then the notion of unconditional love comes into play. Anyways, I went to college and after being in denial in High School. went out with a girl in college for 6 months and still felt not sexual attraction toward her and same goes to this other girl I dated in college. I loved her, but not like a wife.

    I have became so worn out with all these emotions for guys and contemplating if i am gay. I like can’t even flirt with girls anymore because I guess something inside of me is telling me this isn’t who you are or maybe that it me. Can this still be a phase if ive been feeling the same way for years? Could I be exaggerating about everything? Could I have have something such as HOCD? I am really confused right now, because my counselor is really pushing me to come out, but how can I come out if i don't even know who I am? My counselor says “im fighting it”. And this is the most important question: Can you date/merry a girl who you have no sexual attraction to but still love her?
     
  2. Lexington

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    Welcome to EC!

    >>>Can you date/merry a girl who you have no sexual attraction to but still love her?

    It certainly happens. But why would you do that? Wouldn't you rather marry or settle down with somebody you love AND have sexual feelings for? And isn't it fair to the woman to let her find somebody that loves her AND has sexual feelings for her, so that she can have a complete relationship?

    When I first started having thoughts that I might be gay, I thought as you did. That it was a phase, that it would play itself out. But after several months, and noting that my sex drive went way up when I thought about guys rather than girls, I figured this "phase" wasn't going anywhere anytime soon. It was then that I started working towards coming out.

    You've stated your situation pretty plainly. And to be honest, all the evidence you've put forth seems to suggest you probably are gay. So here's something I'd suggest.

    Try it out.

    Seriously. Just "be gay" for a week or so. See how it fits. Look in the mirror and think "I'm gay" in the morning. Feel free to think "gay thoughts". Feel free to (surreptitiously) check out guys if they catch your eye. Look at gay porn. And not in that guilt-laden, "my shameful secret" sort of way. Get into it. ENJOY IT. Sex is supposed to be enjoyable, damnit, and there's nothing shameful about looking at porn. :slight_smile: So look at porn, jerk off, and get into it. And when you're done, don't quickly close the computer down and feel guilty about what happened. Enjoy the afterglow. Sit there with your sticky hand (and whatever else) and think "That kicked ass". Because solo sex is still sex, and sex DOES kick ass. :slight_smile:

    Go ahead and give it a try for a while. See how it fits. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  3. Chip

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    Hi, and welcome to EC. First, it's clear you've been thinking about this and trying to work through it for quite a while. And you're far from alone with the feelings you have and wondering where you stand.

    Based on what you've said, I think your counselor is correct (though I strongly disagree with the idea of pushing you to come out; that is something you have to do on your own time schedule, as you feel ready to do it.) From everything you've described, it is very unlikely you are straight, and pretty certain you are gay.

    The "phases" that people talk about with regard to sexual orientation are mostly wishful thinking; healthy, normally adjusted heterosexual boys don't suddenly go through a "phase" where they feel attraction to boys which then magically dissipates and they feel attraction to girls again. What does sometimes happen is that heterosexual boys might masturbate with their male friends a few times, but if they are heterosexual, they never feel right about it, and stop doing it because it feels uncomfortable.

    And the so-called HOCD is, quite frankly, bullshit. It is one of those bogus diagnoses perpetrated and perpetuated by the ex-gay movement to try to convince people that they can change their sexual orientation. But there is absolutely no credible scientific literature that sexual orientation is fluid or can be altered; most literature seems to indicate that orientation is fixed either before birth or very early in childhood (before age 5.)

    The other important piece here is the understanding of the processing of any significant loss (in this case, the loss of your perception of yourself as a straight man.) Whenever we encounter any severe loss, we go through stages accepting it. The stages are denial-anger-bargaining-grief-acceptance. It sounds like you might still be in the denial stage now, which is pretty normal. The anger stage is "Goddamn it, why do I have to be this way" or "Fuck, I don't want this" or things like that. And bargaining is something like "Well, maybe I can like guys and girls too" or "Well, maybe if I marry a nice girl, I'll develop feelings for her." The stages aren't always sequential, so perhaps you have some elements of those first 3 going on for you simultaneously.

    Finally as for the last question... EC has a lot of members who convinced themselves they could do exactly what you're suggesting. It never works, and it usually results up in a much more disastrous situation (an angry or upset wife, when the husband eventually figures out and accepts that he's gay, sometimes 5 or 10 or 20 years later, having to break up, possibly dealing with kids... etc) So I'd suggest reading about some of their experiences before considering that possibility.

    I and all the rest of the advisor team are here to help you if you'd like to talk individually, or you can feel free to continue to post here at EC. But please keep us in the loop, and make use of all the people and helpful posts at EC that can help you as you move through this process.

    I can promise you that as you work through it, you will eventually get to feeling a lot more comfortable with yourself and get to a place where you can be happy and well adjusted. :slight_smile:

    Edit: Lex posted as I was writing. He's given you some great advice that should really help. I highly recommend doing what he's suggesting :slight_smile:
     
  4. Ianthe

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    Well, I think you should still work on coming out to yourself, rather than coming out to other people. (That's what you are doing right now that's taking so much energy.)

    Phases do not last this long. I'm going to have to agree that the evidence you have put forward seems to indicate that you are gay.

    Take Lex's advice and see what happens if you just allow yourself to be gay for a little while.

    I don't really understand why your counselor is pushing you to come out so soon. I think it's a much better idea to have achieved a measure of self-acceptance first. Or is he only trying to get you to admit it to him? What exactly does your counselor want you to do?
     
  5. unknown12

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    Thanks Chip and Lexington and Ianthe, I am trying my hardest to accept it. I come from a conservative family who calls homosexuals moths. The only person who I told that I'm probably gay is my sister, she is pretty accepting of it. But as I accept it, I am becoming more feminine and she does not agree with that so she tells me to stop acting feminine. And all my friends are really conservative. So i know that if i come out, then i might loose everything. I am sick of pretending and want to be real with everyone, and be comfortable with myself. I cant seem to find comfort in being Gay.
     
  6. Lexington

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    If you haven't told your sister, she needs to be told:

    That "normal" U12? The one she's used to? THAT's the act. That's the one you've worked hard to maintain over the years, and it's getting to be too stressful to do anymore. The more effeminate U12? That's the real one. The one that's finally getting a chance to emerge. And there's nothing more liberating than "being who you are".

    There's a slight (but real) possibility that yes, you might "lose everything" in the coming out. That friends might drift away or desert you. If they do, so be it. Because that's not what friends do, and if their answer to your coming out is to say "enh, no thanks", then they aren't friends - they're "people you hang out with". And it means you can replace them with people who like you for you - not for the mask you've felt the need to wear for the last however-many years.

    ...moths? I guess I've been called worse. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  7. unknown12

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    Ya, I know I might loose everything too but i just wouldn't be able to move forward if my parents shunned me form the household. I am trying to accept it but that's taken a huge emotional and physiological toll on me and my grades at college have followed suit. I thought about pretending to love and be into a girl again, but that's going to take a even greater toll than what i'm going through now. I just don't know how I can be comfortable with it. I tried to feel comfortable with it by hooking up with a guy, but that brought little solace and more questions than answers.
     
  8. Ianthe

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    Um, moths is a new one for me, too.

    Maybe you should make some new friends that you can depend on to be accepting. Like, you know, liberal friends. Better yet, artsy friends. Are you interested in any of the arts? The arts are a fantastic way to meet accepting people.

    ---------- Post added 7th Nov 2011 at 04:28 PM ----------

    Notice that you tried having relationships with women, but only a hookup with a guy. Not really an equal comparison. If someone told you about a one-night stand he had with a woman, would you be surprised that he didn't "find solace" in it?

    Solace and fulfillment are found in real relationships, not in hookups.
     
  9. Lexington

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    >>>I tried to feel comfortable with it by hooking up with a guy, but that brought little solace and more questions than answers.

    Unless your question is "what's it like having sex with a guy?", or your problem is "I desperately want to lose my virginity", hooking up with a guy isn't the ideal solution. Post-orgasm, your parents still are looking down at homosexuals, and the guy you hooked up with presumably isn't interested in hearing your backstory - he showed up for the hot sweaty mansex, not to play counselor. :slight_smile:

    I'd keep working with your sister, and maybe she'll continue to come around. At that point, you'll have an ally in your corner, and you won't have to attempt to tackle your parents alone. Until then, I don't see any reason to feign interest in the opposite sex. Just say "My studies have me pretty swamped" or something - parents eat that up with a spoon. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  10. insidehappy

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    yes you can date someone you love but you really need to be IN LOVE with them to make things work. sometimes people think that loving someone will make the relationship work. well loving someone can make things last but really for how long. intimate relationships require some level of intimacy and passion. if you do not have these feelings for someone then its not likely to happen in a second or even after some years. you can learn to love someone but you must be attracted to them in some way to create the sparks necessary for intimate relationships. sometimes people are not initially phsyicalliy attracted to someone but their personality is soo cool and you feel so loved that the physical feelings come later. what you are saying is that you have had tehse types of relationships but no physical feelings every sprung up. what is missing in your post is information about any situations with men. have you experimented with another male in real life (non video or magazine). if so, how did that feel to you? did it feel the same as when you were with women? which did you prefer. these answers will shed light on what you feel as though you truly want. it does appear you are not ready to accept your orientation or possible orientation and that's ok. you should not be forced to do that by anyone but you should challenge yourself to ask yourself your own questions regarding what you like and what you don't like and try and make some peace with that internally.

    ---------- Post added 7th Nov 2011 at 05:27 PM ----------

    what is moth by the way?

    hookup: some people will tell you to hookup and that will helkp you figure out everything. right for some people; wrong for many others. hookups only tell you what your body responds to or doesn't respond to. and sometimes if there is no connection with the person, it wont even tell you that. hookups dont tell you what you mind wants and needs and usually doesnt settle the conflict you have going on in your head. for many people its a quick high and aftewards they feel like crap. so take time and give yourself space (there's no rush) to determine who you are and who you want to be. if you are gay that doesn't mean you have to subscribe to some "image" you may see of what gay people are. you only have to be yourself and who you are doesnt have to change just because of the gender you may like. good luck.
     
  11. unknown12

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    Well I have found someone who I really care for. I met him at a park one day. Me and him hit it off and talked. I thought he was a really cool guy and kinda suspected he was gay.

    As our friendship strengthened, we began to causally drink. One day, while drinking, I opened up the idea to masturbating. We did, he also admitted he had sex with a guy. I was the only one he has told that. And After one time while drunk he told me "my @$% is bigger than yours" It felt like he wanted to see it. and after that, he felt my private area and held my hand. My life felt complete. And he calls himself a red neck and listens to hard rock, but all of a sudden he listens to pop and rap. I told him "well that's a bid change" he kept quiet.

    i don't know whether he is just sick of rock or if he is trying to tell me something. I feel as if me and him went through our life drama together that we would be complete. Do you all think there might be a possibility my friend might be gay?

    Moth is like the bug. It's basically means that gay's are annoying.
     
    #11 unknown12, Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  12. Ianthe

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    Um, let's see, had sex with a guy, masturbated with you, put his hand on your "private area"... Yeah, him being into guys is a serious possibility.

    If pop and rap are what YOU listen to--that is, all the sudden he's taking an interest in things that YOU like--then there's a good chance he's interested in you, for more than just fooling around.

    I think you should come out to him (although how this can possibly be necessary, I have no idea).

    Alternatively, you could just regard the situation as "since we are doing sexual things together, obviously we are gay," and just pretend like you already came out to each other.

    Since the fact that you are both interested in men is pretty well established, you could frame the conversation as being about whether either of you is interested in women. You could also ask him if he would ever be interested in having an actual relationship with a man, as opposed to it being just for kicks. But he'll know where you're going with that last one.

    Of course, I think I should point out that the whole thing with his hands in your "private area" would probably have carried on if you had, you know, reciprocated.

    Maybe you should just try kissing him. If he won't let you kiss him, he's probably not ready to have a relationship with a guy.

    Keep in mind too, he's just as confused as you are, because he still doesn't know that you are gay either.

    (Boys are so weird! With lesbians, there would have been kissing by now. And talking. Lots and lots of talking about what it all means. I mean, I'm having really serious difficulty imagining a scenario where a girl has her hand on my crotch but there hasn't either been some kissing leading up to it or else a conversation about it in advance.)
     
  13. Lexington

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    We're not the moths. We're the flame. (You'll have to imagine the wrist snap - partially because I'm not there, and partially because I'm not very good at it.)

    As for your redneck hard-rock-listening friend...

    I listen to rock.
    I wear T-shirts and jeans about 360 days a year.
    I have season tickets to a contact sport.
    But me likey the dick-y, which means I'm gay.
    And I think your friend just might be as well. :slight_smile:

    >>>Boys are so weird! With lesbians, there would have been kissing by now.

    There would've been a U-Haul by now. :wink:

    Lex
     
  14. Gravity

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    I'm a bit late to this, and it sounds like you're getting some good advice already, but I wanted to point out one thing:

    Given this, and given the context of what you were describing, I think you owe it to yourself to explore this a bit, regardless of what you choose to do with it publicly in the short term. After all the years of pretending to be something that doesn't make you feel good on the inside, if just this one episode made you feel something like that, imagine how you'd feel if you followed up on it and could be honest with people around you about it.

    True, you might find that you lose some friends along the way - maybe even several of them. But you'll meet new people along the way (you might try going to college or community lgbt meetings, they can be very helpful and comforting, especially when just starting to come out - many people are in your same situation and will be sympathetic). I lost a few friends myself when I came out, and to be honest, I'm still glad I did it. It's unfortunate that they couldn't accept me for who and what I am, but the sheer happiness I feel just from being honest with myself and others more than makes up for it (I still haven't gotten over it, 11 years later!)

    And, yeah, to follow up on your friend, he's probably gay. :slight_smile: He's also a perfect demonstration of the fact that being "gay" can mean whatever you want it to mean.
     
  15. unknown12

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    thankyou for all for the feedback. i just needed confirmation that I am gay and that my "friend" might be gay also. Reality is finally settling in that I am Gay now, and after posting on the forum, I feel 100% confident. Now i just need to find the balls to tell my friend how I feel about him. Or I could just keep what ever we have between us like it is and let the cards fall where they may.
     
  16. Lexington

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    Some people play the "gay-not-gay" game, sometimes to great lengths. They'll hook up every night for three years, but so long as neither of them says anything about it - you know, it just "happens" - well, then, it's not gay. It's apparently only if you say it out loud that it somehow becomes "gay". Speaking solely for myself, I think that's such a bizarre way to go about things, and personally, I don't think I could go down that route myself. If I like getting the sheets sweaty and sticky with you, I don't have any trouble saying "I like having sex with you - let's go do that some more" rather than sort of vaguely hinting and hoping that I can get the point across. But then again, that's not me. Other people have to operate within their own comfort zones, and if either of you don't want to cross that line of "talking about it", then you presumably won't.

    So feel free to not say the "g-word" in his presence, and feel free to not accuse/suggest him of anything along those lines, either. Just nudge him along. Have a few drinks (but stop short of getting drunk), bring up the fact that he wanted to see your dick, and ask if he still wants to. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  17. unknown12

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    So I just got off the phone with my sister and I am going to come out next weekend. I am super nervous and and going to need alot of support! Please keep me in your thoughts.
     
  18. Lexington

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    Excellent! The only suggestion I'd give is to OWN this. It might be frightening, you might be scared to death of what your parents might think, say or do. But the more confident you sound - "I'm gay, and I feel you should know this" - the better a response you tend to get. I don't think you'll need luck, so I wish you confidence instead. :slight_smile:

    Lex
     
  19. malachite

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    Lex, Chip, and the other are pretty sharp so I'm not gonna waste your time repeating what they've already said. I will tell you how similar your story is to mine. I didn't (and stll don't) fit into any gay sterotype, and that confused the hell outta me for the longest time when I was growing up. I knew some gay boys and they were flamboyant and loved to dress in drag. I figured I couldn't be gay since none of that interested me.

    As I got older and wiser I realised that sterotypes are no way to base your sexuality on. Being gay is NOT who you are, its just a part of you. So, go figure that out before you worry about all that other stuff
     
  20. unknown12

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    thanks all. I am actually going to now come out to my parents next weekend, because I have a few exams next week. I will try to stay confident but my sister also told me that my mom said she would be supportive, but would cave if my dad would not be alright with it. So I hope he would be ok with it!