Women - where do MTFs land for you?

I would be okay with dating someone that is MTF if I am attracted to her and have feelings for her. I have thought about this before and I think I'd be okay with it. I think if you really love someone it shouldn't matter.

 

I wouldn't say they aren't real lesbians, sexual orientation is complicated. In general, most people don't see what someone's internal gender is, they see that person's presentation, and that is what their physical attraction is to. Women who identify as lesbians may do so because they are attracted to female-bodied people, rather than to people who identify as female, and that is completely legitimate.

As a gay man, I'm not physically attracted to men, I'm physically attracted to male-bodied people. It doesn't matter to my sex drive whether that person identifies as male or female, what I'm interested in is the shape of their body and the nature of their junk. I imagine the reverse is true for many lesbians. Could I fall in love with a female-bodied man? Certainly, but I would probably feel only the slightest amount, if any, sexual attraction to him.

 

I know I'm not female or lesbian, and therefor what I have to say isn't pertinent to your situation, but I speak from the perspective of someone who likes women:

I would date an MTF. Or anyone who is not quite one gender or the other. And I think, crucially, I wouldn't date an MTF as a man, but a woman, because thats what she is.

But I suppose since I'm pansexual and FTM, it doesn't really count.

 

Generally speaking, our culture defines sexual orientation based on the bodies of the people we are attracted to. A woman who identifies as a lesbian, and not bisexual, does so usually in part because she is not attracted to male bodies.

What particular physical cues are most important will vary between different individuals. For me, some subtle things in the facial features are a lot more important than any other particular body part. The masculinization of the facial features that happens during male puberty makes people less attractive to me. Actually, one of my big, "wow, I am really gay," moments was when I realized that the effects of testosterone on the facial features of transgender men made them markedly less attractive to me. Like, the same person that used to be attractive to me, isn't any more because of it, or is much less so.

Unfortunately, anyone who has been through a male puberty will have masculinized features, which transgender women sometimes correct through surgery. MTFs who receive hormonal intervention before puberty are more likely to be attractive to me.

This is something I have learned about myself through observation. I don't have any objection to dating a trans person I'm attracted to, I just know that I am not very likely to be attracted. I would still date a man if I was attracted--but I won't be.

Since sexual attraction is not voluntary, there is not really anything I can do about it. Having gone through the process of coming out to myself, I am pretty aware of who I am and am not attracted to, and I am only willing to date people I am attracted to.

As a "woman," I'm sure you realize it's rude to put other people's identities in quotation marks.

 

What you have in your pants doesn't matter to me, to put it bluntly. This is not exactly the same situation as yours, but I think it's worth mentioning. I am not physically attracted to males, by which I mean that I am not interested in having something put in me. But the person I have always liked is FtM, and plans to get the surgery done once he is in college. I didn't always know that he was FtM, and I met him as a girl when he was not quite considering it yet. I like him for who he is, and not because he has boobs. Of course, if we were to have a relationship, it would only be romantic, but that still doesn't mean I'm going to abandon him completely because he no longer has the same "equipment" as myself. As for MtF, I would see it the exact same way. I like you for who you are, and not because of how you look, and I think that is the way people should see it. If you are a girl, then you are a girl, no matter whether or not you are stuck inside a boy's body.

 

I don't think it really matters. I have thought about it before and I could TOTALLY date and even have a long term commitment to a MtF. Infact, I think I might be more attracted to a MtF than a bio Female...

I understand the wanting kids thing. Have you thought about freezing some of your "boys" so after you have everything finished and have yourself a woman that your child / children will have your DNA? Just a thought

 

I really don't appreciate the implication that I am shallow.

It is not shallow. Because sexual orientation isn't voluntary. Sexual and romantic attraction aren't even voluntary. They're either there, or not. It isn't shallow to refuse to date someone you aren't attracted to. If I thought it were, I would date the men who've been hitting on me lately.

You can't just make some philosophical decision that you SHOULD be attracted to certain people, and have that work. None of us gets to choose.

If bodies don't matter at all, and thinking they do is shallow, then transitioning is also shallow. If bodies don't matter, what's wrong with the one you have? Even if you aren't personally transitioning, do you mean to imply this about people who are?

I did my best to answer you honestly, based on a lot of thought that I've given the subject. I notice all the other replies are of the "of course I would date someone like you" variety. Maybe that's what you wanted. If so, I suppose I just shouldn't have responded.

I am generally most attracted to very masculine women. I have pretty good evidence of this having been the case even in childhood. That being the case, I am acutely aware that both a persons body and their gender expression and personality play a part in my attraction. I don't think I should have to be called shallow for something about me that is inherent and involuntary, and that has been true of me since at least age 10 (but probably longer).

It's not like I ever made a rule that I just refused to consider other potential partners. It just so happens that everyone I have ever had any strong interest in has fit that description--even though such people are relatively unusual, and I sometimes went years without really meeting any. (Sometimes I wondered if I was just incapable of those feelings.) I'm just doing my best to report the genuine answer to your question.

I know that these things can be hard to hear, but I believed, perhaps mistakenly, that you wanted honest answers. And since I have given the matter a good deal of thought, I thought I'd share what does and doesn't make a difference to me in my attraction to someone.

Everyone is different, and there are plenty of people out there who don't care about a person's gender expression or their apparent physical sex in considering who to date. I think that most of them probably don't identify as lesbians, though. You might consider that lesbians are possibly not the best pool for you to be fishing in.

For most people, when we are attracted to someone, it is to the whole person overall, including both their body and their personality.

The only reason this is a problem for you is that you plan to change your body drastically in the future. In specific, you mean to change some things about your body that are fundamental to many people's attraction. So, a person who would be attracted to you now might not be attracted to you after you transition, and vice versa.

It's not fair, of course, but since nobody gets to decide who they are and aren't attracted to, it's also not fair to get angry with people for something they have no control over.

I have a friend who is a lesbian transwoman, and she has a girlfriend. There are people out there who will date you. I am not one of them, and it isn't wrong--or "shallow"--for me not to be one of them.

Why did you think lesbians would be less "shallow" than other people anyway? We are just regular people.

I think there is a serious possibility that, in the future, I could be in a relationship with someone who will decide they need to transition FTM. When I realized what the effects of testosterone do to my attraction to a person, I was really upset about it. I really didn't want it to be true. But it is, anyway.

I worry a lot that I might have the very painful experience of finding that I can't be sexually, or even romantically, attracted to someone anymore, even though I care deeply about the person. I think that situation would be very difficult, and I am afraid of it happening to me. I think it would be horrible, for me and my partner both. Basically, I would end up in a heterosexual marriage, and it wouldn't work for me any more than it would if I had married a man knowingly, back when I didn't know I was gay.

I wouldn't end the relationship unless I was really not able to have those feelings for my partner anymore. I hope it wouldn't happen, but I think it probably would, based on what I've observed about myself. The whole subject fills me with a horrible kind of dread. I don't want to feel that, or to inflict that kind of pain on my partner.

Someone like you, who is a feminine person in a masculine body, I am just really not likely to ever get involved with in the first place. Neither of those works very well for me.

(I'm going to assume that, when you said that you believed lesbians wanted people who were "fem in spirit" you did not mean to imply that butch women were not real women, or that the people who are attracted to them were not real lesbians. Because, you know, that would be offensive.)

 

I'm sorry that you've had that experience dating, it's hard to find someone in general, and it's harder for us in the LGBT community.

I do think that I'm more attracted to women with feminine features but if a MTF woman is attractive to me, I'd be up for it. I am normally not attracted to butch women or anyone with a lot of masculine qualities. But like I said, if there's a MTF individual that I find attractive then it might be able to work. You're right that there's more to a relationship than just physical attraction. I think physical attraction + emotional connected-ness work together. For some people one of those is more important. But for most people both of them are at least part of why people are attracted to each other.

I see what Ianthe is saying about attraction, I'd be more attracted to a MTF woman if she has feminine facial qualities. I really like girly hands if that makes sense. And girly eyes and female bodies in general. Curves, long hair, soft facial features, etc. There are MTF people that I might be attracted to but it probably would be harder. Who knows, maybe I will date someone that is MTF one day. I don't think people are intentionally trying to discriminate. I hope things get better for you soon. (*hug*)

 

My girlfriend is MtF and has undergone no surgery, and I love for who she is, so it doesn't matter to me. What does matter to me is how one presents themself, because that is who they are.