Hi folks! This is my first time posting here - thanks in advance for your support! I'm looking for some advice on a situation with a friend - who's also my ex-boyfriend. I'll call him "Nick." Hopefully you guys can help me out. I am a comfortably straight, 25-year-old woman. I was with Nick for a brief time in college; we'd been good friends for a few years, and he was my first boyfriend (we never had sex). He ended the relationship by citing some vague personal issues, not sharing any details, though it became clear to me very quickly that the issue was his sexuality. It was also clear to most of our friends that he was quite probably gay, though he never said anything about it (despite having a pretty obvious relationship with another guy). We managed to stay good friends, though our relationship went through a pretty rocky period with his unwillingness to open up - and, to be fair, my unsureness about how to approach him with the issue. I left to work overseas after college, and our communication was limited to letter-writing and the rare Skype conversation for two years. During that time, Nick came fully out as being gay, with much support from friends (because, well, we all knew already). He dated a couple guys, including having one serious relationship. Even with our limited correspondence, I could tell he was a thousand times happier and more at home in himself than he ever was in college. For me, it was a relief to see him so comfortable with his identity at last. I just returned to the US a few months ago, and we live in different states, so I still haven't had much contact with Nick recently. But just after New Years, he started posting a bunch of vague Facebook updates about some sudden spiritual renewal he'd had; that God had set him free and healed him, that he was never going back to how things had been, etc. He's always been a committed Christian, so this sudden spiritual outpouring confused me. Then, while looking at his profile, I saw he'd changed his "Interested in" preference to "women." So. Apparently my gay ex-boyfriend is now my ex-gay ex-boyfriend. I'm really not sure how to respond to this. Like I said, he's a dedicated Christian; on top of this, he comes from a pretty conservative right-wing family. I also know he was abused/molested as a child, although I don't know any of the details. My suspicion is that his sexual insecurity and foray into homosexuality was an attempt to deal with what happened to him as a child, and the uptight religious environment he was raised in. However, he also really comes across as being gay, even to people who don't know him or his history. I still wonder myself how I'd managed to not see it to the point of wanting to date him...Though, to be clear, I no longer have any romantic attraction to him AT ALL. My concern now is simply as a friend. I'm really just curious about what happened to cause this sudden switch in his life. To my knowledge, he hasn't been through any kind of "ex-gay" counseling. Whatever the case may be, I'm ready to love and accept him. I'm planning to talk to him later this week, but I'm unsure of the best way to respond. I am a Christian myself, and "pro-gay." I have good friends who are very happily gay and Christian, and I don't see any reason for the two to be mutually exclusive. Dating screw-up aside, I had no problem with Nick identifying himself as a gay believer. Now, I'm not looking for any criticism of or negativity towards Christianity & homosexuality here. My concern is in how to express my acceptance of these two things to someone who's struggled through that mess and apparently come out on the opposite end of the spectrum. Has anyone here dealt with a similar issue, either themselves or with a loved one? Sorry this is kind of long. I hope everything I said makes sense. And I look forward to hearing some feedback!
First off, I would love you as a friend....This...."Whatever the case may be, I'm ready to love and accept him."...is priceless. Second, just ask him what's going on, what happened and all, and simply listen to him. And even if what he says sounds off the wall, just stick with accepting him and loving him. What's more important is you loving him for who he is, no matter where his sexuality is/isn't or whatever. Others may clobber me for saying that, but I think it's true... loving him would be the best thing ever.
Yes supporting and accepting him was awesome and so great of you. I only hope that he didnt get "changed" by some Christian bull shit. I think all you can really do is be there for him. And if it comes up that him being gay was wrong. Just tell him that he was being true to himself and its not wrong to be gay. I know so many men that lie to themself and say that being gay is a sin. So I only hope that he gets through this with his mind still in one peace. I know those " Christians" can really mess up your head with the being gay thing. And yes would love to have you as a friend your so nice.
I think you are an amazing friend. When it comes to your friend I think the first thing you need to realize is that people dont go from being gay to suddenly being straight. It just doesn't happen. Period. I think it would be best for you to just be there for him and support him no matter what, but for you to also make sure he knows that there is nothing wrong with being gay and that no matter how much he wants it, god isnt going to "take the gay away".
It's quite possible that he came under pressure from some external influence (whether that be family, his friends, or the church) to find his 'straight' side. It's possible he could be a Kinsey 4-5.5 or so, so he's strongly towards guys, but still could have feelings for women, hence, he can be 'healed'. (Really, he's only emphasising the straight part and shutting down the gay part of himself). Short-term, he'll be convinced, but sooner or later (the former if he doesn't find a relationship quickly), the feelings for men will come back. However, regardless of whether he decides to be 'straight' or 'gay' (or whatever he decides to label himself as), you need to keep being a lovely, supportive friend, like you have been to him in the past. If you start trying to force him out of the closet, or try and 'make him gay', it will just make him more depressed - because no doubt, somewhere in his mind, he's suppressing his 'gay thoughts' and it's quite possible he is very depressed.
I think the key is in the statement about "spiritual renewal." He may have gone to a revival meeting or something where the minister offered to "have God heal anyone's problems" and listed homosexuality among the "sins" or "illnesses" that could be healed. Especially if he is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, that definitely can confuse one's preference , but it does not affect orientation, which is hardwired. The problem is, the simpletons who run and promote the ex-gay ministries and "reparative therapy" programs don't understand the nuance of how sexual abuse impacts men (straight and gay) and mistakenly believe that it is possible to "cure" someone who is gay and is an abuse survivor. Those cases do happen, when someone is an abuse survivor whose sexual preference was toward men, but whose underlying orientation was always heterosexual. But those cases are exceedingly rare. And this is a really tough situation. A guy who is the former editor of XY Magazine and the founder of YGA Magazine (both magazines aimed at gay youth), and who was a very highly visible gay rights activist, had some sort of a "spiritual revelation" several years ago and decided that he was straight, and that the whole gay thing was just BS... and worse, he has been going around telling everyone that being gay is awful and abominable and gays should be rounded up and all sorts of nonsense. All a result of what is likely internalized self-hatred about being gay, and probably influence from ex-gay types. I would say with near complete certainty that if your friend thought he was gay, came out, and was happy, that he is, in fact, gay. And I can also guess that his, uh, "conversion" will probably be relatively short-lived. The problem is, once he figures out that he was scammed, it will be really embarrassing/humiliating for him to try and acknowledge that he's "flip flopped' again. So if you can have the conversation and make it clear that you accept and love him regardless of any of that, and maybe gently open the door to say "All I care about is that you're happy, and even if you decided this wasn't really the right thing for you and you realized you really are gay, that wouldn't impact how I feel about you at all" then maybe you gently sow the seed for him to be able to talk to you about what he's feeling. I feel really bad for people who are stuck in a situation where they feel like they have to pretend (or convince themselves, even) to be something they are not in the name of religion or familial acceptance. All we can do is try to educate, and be there for them, and be ready when the inevitable phonecall eventually comes in. It sounds like you're pretty close to him, so if you have the social contract to have a deep discussion, I'd maybe gently approach and talk to him about what he went through, and see if you can get him to talk deeply about what he felt when he was out and gay, and what he feels now in terms of attraction toward women vs men. This isn't to do so with the intent of changing his mind, but more to understand where he's coming from.
Wow, thank you everyone for the great advice and support! You've really helped me get into the right frame of mind to talk to him (we've set a phone date for Thursday). I think (and really hope) that he hasn't been through any kind of "ex-gay" therapy, mainly because the nature of his facebook updates makes it sound like this was some kind of immediate, overnight transformation - not the long, painful process you'd expect with counseling. I know he's currently involved with an evangelical church that preaches a strong message of rebirth, spiritual healing, and "making broken vessels new." I don't know this church's stance on homosexuality, but I strongly suspect his involvement there is what led to this. On the other hand, I've always known him to be a very intelligent, open-minded and accepting individual, so I'd be shocked to learn that he's made a leap all the way to the far-conservative side. Not long after the two of us quit dating back in college, another openly gay friend shared with me that Nick had admitted to him about feeling sexually attracted to other men, but saw himself eventually falling in love with and marrying a woman. To me, this means one of two things. One - he's really gay, but he's been so socially conditioned by his traditional religious upbringing to view heterosexual marriage as the correct, blessed-by-God path that this is what he's learned to hope for; or two - he's really straight, but his inability to deal with the scars of childhood molestation in an uptight conservative environment have led him to process things through questioning his sexuality. If the latter is the case, I can see how coming out as gay could feel like all the weight of suppressed emotional damage is being released. I can also imagine how he might've gone to church recently, had the opportunity to openly face that abuse, reach forgiveness and healing, and finally feel able to leave the whole struggle behind. But all that still feels like a huge stretch to me. Even if he really is straight, that's still a ton of emotional damage that's gonna take more than a single "conversion experience" to fully recover from. I'm very anxious and eager to talk with him in a couple days, and to find out exactly what's been going on. I know there's a lot in his life over the past couple years that I'm unaware of, thanks simply to my living so far away. I'll let you guys know how things go. And thanks to everyone here for giving this straight gal the room to vent and work through some things! This seems like a wonderful online community, and I wish you all the very best on your own journeys!
In my experience, option two simply doesn't happen with uber-religious abuse survivors or those raised in very religious households. For them, the sin and disapproval is so great that it may make them asexual, but it won't drive them to the same sex for sexual fulfillment. What I have seen in very religious male abuse survivors (who are actually gay) and who are dealing with feelings of attraction to men, are all sorts of completely ridiculous justifications as to why they feel the way they do, blaming everything that's gone wrong with their life on the abuse issues, and an absolutely unequivocal denial that they could possibly be gay... even while they're watching gay porn, hooking up with men, fantasizing about guys, and so forth. A few of them may eventually figure out that no matter what they do, they can't pray the gay away, and there's nothing they can do to change, so they learn to accept themselves. A whole lot more just remain miserably stuck in an impossible bind between their religious dogma and their hardwired feelings that can't be changed. The aftereffects of male sexual abuse vary based on the age(s) at which the abuse took place, the sex of the abuser, the form of the abuse and relationship with the abuser, and the resilience of the child, but in general, where the confusion comes in is the blurring of boundaries. The child gets confused between getting attention and affection (which he craves) and sexual activity (which he knows is wrong, but sometimes messes with his head because it can in some ways feel pleasant, even if the experience is emotionally abusive and painful.) So what happens is the child associates the desire for attention and affection and love with males who shower him with attention and affection, and mistake that for sexual attraction. But that is very different from feeling sexual arousal toward men, fantasizing about men, and so forth. It's a complex and nuanced issue as I said above, but my guess is that your friend is dealing more with self-hatred and the perception of lack of acceptance by family members or fellow church members or something of that nature, and that's causing him to rethink himself. My sense is that the only thing you can really do is try to be as openminded as possible but at the same time, try and plant the seeds to remind him of how happy he was, and that you'll love him either way.
As someone who was sexually abused as a kid and bears the emotional scars of it today (and am now finally getting through it) I can tell you that it's likely the first case. It's been shown that although sexual abuse can lead to doubts about sexuality, the sexually abused never show arousal or attraction to the sex in question... unless they are actually that orientation. Chip covers this very very well... and I can really relate to what he is saying. Basically, my desire for a close male friend had nothing to do with feeling sexual arousal towards men, fantasizing about men and so on... but rather had to do with wanting someone who I could trust. I felt trapped, alone, and unable to connect to people of the same sex without fear that I would suffer a similar fate as my cousin did to me... conditions that would lead to the development of my mismanaged coping system and eventually to ocd. I read an interesting blog post that mentions how ex-gay programs have a high incidence of gay childhood sexual abuse sufferers because of the fact that childhood sexual abuse sufferers who are gay have a lot of difficulty accepting their orientation. Hell, most straight male childhood sexual abuse sufferers experience trouble with their orientation in some shape or another. Those who don't are among the lucky few.
great post. you are a great friend. i personally think sexuality is fluid in general with many of us on various ends or middle of the gay/straight spectrum. i think society forces us to think one if bad and one is good and it also forces very many of to lie and deny about where exactly on the scale we stand. take for instance, color. when we see the color blue, we really aren't seeing the color blue but we are seeing various spectrums of light and other colors that combine to "look blue". i feel this is the same with gay and straight. Humans are far too complex to only fit into 2 boxes. with that said, your friend could be attracted to women and could be attracted to men. personally it sounds as though with teh new church and new year, he has decided to turn over a new leaf and maybe leave the gayness behind. that's his choice to do so. often when being gay is introduced at the hands of a terrible act like molestation or rape, it makes sense why victims of that abuse would want to distance theirselves away from same sex attractions. did the moleestation cause him to be interested in men? who knows. some would say it was already there, some would say it wasn't some would way that it may have pushed him over to the gay spectrum. the fact is, as a friend, all you have to do is support him and his choice. just like you supported him coming out as gay, you have to support him going back in as straight. only he knows what he truly is. i too aggree with you that it sounds as though he has taken in some conversion doctrine that says he can be brand new and (straight). i'm not saying this is not true. All I am saying is that often people get really fanatic about this type of reconversion only to be deflated later when those old feelings and thoughts come back. they want desperately to be normal, they want to feel straight, they want to be like everyone else, they dont want the same sex lusts, they may have also felt that being gay never did anything positive for them and only caused them worry, shame, and hardships and broken relationships, so they try extra hard to do everything they can to rid theriselves of it. personally i think that it can be futile and that you like what you like and you are turned on by what you are turned on by. but it is their choice to live their lives as they see fit.
It is Option 1 which is the case. A lot of gay people (especially those discovering their sexuality around or after age 25 or so) find it very hard to 'change' from heterosexuality, because all their lives, they've been fed (and lived) a heteronormative life. Especially considering he goes to an evangelical Christian church. It might sound nice on the outside, but on the inside, things could be getting nasty.
Well, I talked to my friend Nick today - it was a very positive, constructive conversation, but also somewhat discouraging on my end. I won't re-hash our whole discussion here; I've already talked it through with someone else, and besides, it's really not my story to share. The essence of it boiled down to one statement he made, which he feels is something God revealed to him: that the opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality, but wholeness. Again, he's viewing it as God's message to him...however, I recognize it as a typical line spouted by ex-gay ministries (the one other friend I've discussed this with is a Christian who's also gay, and who has some personal experience with "reparative therapy," and he confirmed my thinking). When talking to Nick, I expressed my firm belief that homosexuality does NOT equal brokenness...there may be broken aspects of a person's life regarding sexuality, but one's sexual orientation in and of itself is not something that is broken. He agreed, but claimed that he saw too much brokenness surrounding homosexuality for him to accept it as a whole way to live that allows full access to a relationship with God. He said he knows openly gay Christian individuals, but even the ones who are happy have some serious brokenness in their lives that - in his eyes - are holding them back from the fullness of knowing God (which to me sounds like he's projecting a lot of his own issues onto other people). I told him I have some close friends who are authentic Christians and also happily gay. He stayed firm in his own conviction. He was baptized at his church last night (yeah, my timing with this conversation was awesome...), and is totally convinced that God has renewed him, removed all his old feelings & given him new ones. And who am I to argue with the truth of his experience? It does sound like this new church group has had a LOT to do with him reaching this point...but it also sounds like he's found some genuine healing with past hurts and experiences, which is a good thing. I told him at the end that I love and support him and am happy he's finding healing, and he appreciated my questions and desire to understand. However, I'm also left with the sense that he sees himself as having reached some ultimately complete spiritual understanding and point of contact with God that I'm not capable of understanding. Which, as a dedicated Christian myself, is somewhat annoying. But that's not the important thing here. The important thing is that I now know where he stands, and he knows where I stand, and even though we're not 100% on the same page, we're still friends. For his sake, I want to hope that he really has found wholeness as a straight man, and is on the right path. And yet...after years of knowing him, and the experience of trying to date him, I remain 100% convinced that he's not straight. Gay or bi, I don't know. But not straight. Well, I guess that's it. I'm still frustrated, but at least now I understand what's going on. I also know there's nothing else for me to do but keep supporting and loving him on whatever path he ends up following. Thanks, everyone, for your insights and advice. It can be difficult, as a straight person, facing this kind of issue with confidence. Knowing I have folks like you backing me up has been a huge source of encouragement.
Kirby, you are truly, truly beautiful. I am happy it was constructive in some ways and sorry that you were a little discouraged. I really believe, this is part of the fabric that will continue to make up your relationship with him. As difficult as it might feel, embrace him where he's at. In time, things will be made very clear in the way he is able to walk out his life; if it is in peace, then he is in a good place, if he is tormented, then you are still there as a loving friend. I can understand you feeling annoyed, but you remain as you have for him and it will be only to your credit. Really, how beautiful you are Kirby. Thank you so much for sharing this. (and man you really do have timing...baptism night?! lol)
You just brought tears to my eyes. Seriously...I cannot tell you how much this affirmation means to me. It's words like this that makes it a little easier to have hope and patience. Thank you so very much. In studying the whole gay/Christian issue over the past days, I've found many online resources that provided a great amount of information and encouragement, in particular BeyondExGay.com and the Gay Christian Network. I've been considering forwarding these resources to my friend (especially the former site) - NOT in an attempt to prove that he can or should be gay; but he also mentioned feeling called to reach out to other believers struggling with their sexuality, and I feel it would be good for him to at least become familiar with the other side of the argument and see how such "help" can at times lead to even more damage. I'm not sure if it'd be appropriate for me to do that...I don't want to come across as overbearing or pressing my opinion on him. What do you think? Seriously, right?!? Story of my life...
What I appreciate is that you are doing your homework and it's simply because you care. Beautiful. I am all for starting conversations and that's what you did. Where judgment can end a conversation unnecessarily, you remained open which allowed him to be open with you about where he is at. You mentioned that 'he appreciated your questions and desire to understand', but you also said that 'he stayed firm in his own conviction." If you feel sending a link might continue the conversation, then I don't see a problem with sending him one, but to further understand him, you may invite him to send you a response from an ex-gay ministry which most clearly illustrates his perspective. That being said, if both of you read the other person's POV it does have the potential to put a wedge between you two, him going on in his direction and you deepening your convictions in your own. However, if you both remain non-judgmental, it has the potential to assist growth in your friendship. You could also just send it and disregard everything I just said lol I know I didn't give you a firm yes or no, I really just wanted to give you some thoughts to consider. Thank you so much for your wonderful patience and support for your friend. It is truly a gift.
Others have already said it: You have really "got it" as far as being there for him fully, without judgement, and supporting his happiness. And in my opinion, that was totally the right choice. On to reality... not to rain on his parade, but I can say with almost complete certainly that in 6 months or a year or two years, he'll figure out that he got scammed. He will probably have a very difficult time acknowledging that, even to himself... and all we can do is hope that in the meantime he doesn't marry some hapless and innocent girl who ends up with her life screwed up by this debacle. But what you can do is just be there, and support him fully, and if/when you start to see indications that he's not as happy as he is right now, perhaps you can just be the sounding board for when (if ever) he's ready to reopen that discussion. I really hate to see people go through this bullshit and waste years of their life being unhappy, and this is the absolute most evil part of the bigotry that is pervasive in many Christian churches. But of course there are other churches who are open and welcoming, and plenty of truly lovely Christian people who are equally open and understanding, of which you're clearly one. Ultimately, the blessing for him is that you'll be there, regardless. And that's a rare and wonderful gift he has, whether he realizes it or not
