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Sleepovers make you gay.....

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by kylegf2011, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. kylegf2011

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    I was talking with my mom, and we were discsing some stuff, and then I said that it was better to sleep over at a friends house if you were drunk or if it was too late than driving home. And she said it wasnt because many people turn gay in sleepovers, because they get curiouse and start touching each other, and like it. I told her that wasnt true, and she said that nobody is born gay, and that there are statistics that prove it. I told her to show them to me because I believe that isnt true (Ive never been with a guy and Im gay :dry:slight_smile: but still, are there statistics that prove what she said? and can I find others that prove the opposite?
     
  2. fedora777

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    personally i think you're either born gay or your not, you don't just turn gay. they really havent proven that being gay is genetic and they dont really know how it happens. personally, no one can tell you how you feel or what you think because that's you and no on can change that
     
  3. Sunsetting

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    you hit the hot potato of all time. there is no proof either way that it is nature or nurture. studies on both sides are somewhat skewed (i will get clobbered for saying this, but it is true), so until there is conclusive proof either way, this one is up for debate. it sounds like she is cautious... does she know anything about you?
     
  4. Chip

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    While there's no absolutely definitive data as to the origin or cause of same-sex attraction, there is some very good data, in the form of a meta-analysis done by the APA of every major study published in the last 60 years (over 100 studies), looking at attempts to alter sexual orientation.

    And that study was unequivocal: there is no credible data whatsoever that there is any way to alter sexual orientation. You might be able to get people to suppress it for a while, and pretend to be straight, but you can't make someone straight who is gay.

    So, if we extrapolate from that data, then we can say with equal reliability that if the best minds in the world have been completely unsuccessful in being able to change sexual orientation, using all sorts of interventions, then it's completely ridiculous to believe that something as simple as same-sex sleepovers could possibly change someone from straight to gay.

    Also, to address Sunsetting's post, if you're talking absolute scientific proof that it's nature or nurture, he is correct, we don't know. But that's a really misleading statement about current scientific thought on the subject because, while we don't absolutely know the cause, we do have consensus among every major professional association that sexual orientation is fixed very early in life, likely before birth, but certainly before 4 or 5 years of age.

    We also know that there's no discernable causation related to parenting styles, presence or absence of a male parent, choice of activities or toys or hobbies as a child, though there is a correlation with several of these things, and the difference between correlation and causation is a mistake a lot of non-science minded (i.e., homophobic bigoted types) make.

    Correlation: More people die in hospitals than any other place in the world
    False causative inference: Therefore, hospitals are very unsafe places to be.

    This is the sort of shit the dumbasses who try to say that orientation can be changed use to justify their arguments. My guess is that if your mom comes up with data, it will be the horribly flawed studies conducted by various people associated with the religious right. If she comes up with any citations, post them, and I'll be happy to rip them to shreds for you.

    The best data supporting your position is the unequivocal statements made by the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, and the National Association of Social Workers, all extremely credible organizations who have looked at this issue extensively over the past 40 years.
     
  5. Browncoat

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    Unfortunately neuroscience is still a relatively young science and there cannot be strictly conclusive studies at this point, but the vast majority of research strongly suggests that the origin of homosexuality (and heterosexuality, for that matter) is a combination of biological, genetic, and hormonal components.

    Anyone feel free to correct me, as I am no expert, but it appears that the most likely theory is the abnormal exposure of prenatal sex hormones to a fetus during a particular stage of brain development. This would alter brain structure such that one is given a biological imprint that, with the onset of puberty, triggers hormones that cause us to be sexually stimulated by the same sex instead of the opposite.

    There is absolutely no research stating that people "turn gay" when they fool around with people of the same sex. Your mother is just using a logical fallacy there... If a guy fools around with another guy and likes it, it's because he is gay/bi - not that he was presumably without a sexual orientation and then suddenly became gay. That's not how it works. If A (one is gay/bi), then B (you will enjoy being with men). Not if B then A.

    There are many studies of LGB individuals recounting their sexual identity formation if you want some hard copy statements. It's fairly universal and accepted by the researchers in those studies that awareness of same-sex attraction almost always precedes any sexual activity with the same sex.

    It sounds like your mother is just grasping for any reasoning for denial she can find though. It's just a stage - I'm sure she will accept you for who you are, in time :slight_smile:
     
  6. Sunsetting

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    "if you're talking absolute scientific proof that it's nature or nurture, he is correct, we don't know" i appreciate this
     
  7. castle walls

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    Sunsetting does have a point. To my knowledge, there is no conclusive point that can only be interpreted as meaning people are born gay but that doesn't mean you have no argument. In fact, you have a great argument once you look around. I wrote a paper a few years ago for a college neurobiology course on this topic. (I got an A). I can't find it now but I remember a few of my sources. There is some proof of a correlation (don't forget correlation does not equal causation) between fraternal birth order and sexual orientation. This may have been proven false recently. My paper is a few years old.

    Also, there were some MRI scans that showed that a gay man's brain resembled a heterosexual female's brain. In the early 1990s, they found a difference in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men. This shows that there can be biological differences. The issue is not much is known exactly when the biological differences start or why. Googling (I know it's not technically a word but it should be) Simon LeVay might help you out too. If I remember correctly, he believes that there must be at least some biological component to sexuality. These examples may not be much but they are a start

    If I find that essay, I'll post some of my old sources if they're still correct. Science changes so fast. . .
     
  8. Lemony Lime

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    I don't really think that it's possible for someone to have any sexuality at birth. I think it's most likely developed over time. (But not in a one time event, like a sleepover, lol.) It may also be possible for it to be influenced by genes, though. Also, as you guys have said, there's really no way to know for sure, nor does it really matter. People that say things like that do so because they think that being gay is bad, which it really is not.
     
  9. Sunsetting

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    i believe the one problem with the hypothalmus study, however, was that all the men had died of aids and they were unsure if the enlarged hypothalmus was as a result of complications with aids or homosexuality
     
  10. castle walls

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    That was true of the first two studies. The one done by LaVey and the second one done by Byne. A third (or maybe it was the fourth) study was done but less people were involved. I'll try to find that paper I wrote for the info
     
  11. Sunsetting

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    cool, cool, thx
     
  12. Mogget

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    Until fairly recently it was very unusual for someone to sleep alone in his or her bed. People almost always slept with someone else in bed, and unless they were married, it was someone of the opposite sex. At home you might sleep with a sibling, when visiting a friend you probably slept with your friend. For thousands of years this was the norm. Beds were too costly and rooms too cold for any other arrangement.
     
  13. kylegf2011

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    No, well she kind of suspects it, she has asked me like 4 times and the 4 times I have denied it, and then one time she just said homosexuality was wrong, and she hoped I wasnt gay because of it being a sin, eventhough I had denied it all those times.
     
  14. ukeye

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    Talk about can of worms OP haha.. I am staying out of this.. I just thought I would say that I agree with sunsetting.. the findings are skewed on both sides.. we don't understand the brain nearly enough to the degree of pinpointing much of any thought processes.. and all people are different with different synapses.

    I have had these thoughts before, but I would rather discard anything that is not based on fact.. People are people, full stop.. these kind of thoughts lead to people thinking in circles and its no good for anything.
     
  15. Sunsetting

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    yeah, my mother suspected it with me too. what do you think about just admitting it to her?
     
  16. Ianthe

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    Deep down, your mother knows that you are gay. But she doesn't want it to be true and she is in denial about it.

    The truth is, she thinks that you are gay, and therefore if you have sleepovers YOU are likely to actually "become gay" by having some kind of sexual encounter with a same-sex person. She is obviously not thinking rationally about this: if sleeping over with a same-sex friend made people gay, there would be a LOT more gay people.
     
  17. Mad Man L

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    The reason why one might see sleepovers as a place where people 'turn gay' is in fact, because it is the place where people can have same-sex sexual experience and avoid getting shit about it for the following months.

    They don't turn gay, rather, their 5-10% homosexual side (if it exists) will come out - i.e. a fleeting moment of bicuriosity. But it seems more so that she thinks sleepovers are 'gay factories', and she suspects you could be going to sleepovers for gay sex.

    I've had to sleep in the same bed as another male on a school trip (I was out to the people I slept with at the time), and I've overcome the problem by sleeping head to toe. (As in, their feet are in my face, and vice versa). It just avoids awkwardness. And really, none of the people I knew had an issue with it.
     
  18. mnguy

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    Lots of kids have sleepovers and most turn out straight. Maybe sleepovers after a certain age cause us to be gay. Just kidding, but your mom might think something like that, however, she's wrong.
     
  19. Zontar

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    brb inviting some hot straight friends over tonight
     
  20. kylegf2011

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    She is too homophobic, and gets carried away for the smallest things, imagine what this would be like :confused: Im not saying Im never going to tell her, but I dont think her reaction (or my dad´s) is going to be positive at all