Out vs Closeted

Such is one of my biggest fears. Coming out should always be on the terms of the individual, not what others decide is right. It comes down to respecting the rights to privacy. Should gays encourage other closeted men and women to come out? Absolutely, so long as there is a viable safety net and support network. I know not everyone has that luxury or option, but as a segment of society that is often marginalized and frowned upon, it is in our best interest to build up, not tear down, one another.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but a lot of out gay people have come a long way in their own life to get to that point and now that they're out NEVER want to be forced back into secrecy. Being friends with or having a one night stand with someone still in the closet is fine (at least for me and a lot of others I've talked to about this), but being in a relationship, even a casual one, with someone in the closet can be super distressing. Suddenly the individual who is used to being open about their orientation and romantic life finds themself in a position where they have to be secretive and not tell the whole truth. It can bring one back to the days when they were in the closet themself and that's very hard.

In the end it comes down to shame. For a lot of guys, being closeted is directly linked to a feeling of shame and once they shed that, they will do anything to stay away from it.

 

From a health perspective studies show being open about your sexuality results in you being a healthier and happier individual. So from that point it makes sense to be open. The thing that i think sets a lot of lgbt individuals off is the idea that being closeted seems to result from shame over ones sexual orientation. Some people view closeted individuals as people who perpetuate the idea that LGBTness is shameful rather than viewing them as someone who is not ready to come out.

I personally don't agree with outing anyone before they are ready however i do believe in encouraging people to come out when they are ready.

I notice you have problems "being associated with the gay lifestyle/culture." I'm assuming you mean the promiscuous or party scene. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your already part of that promiscuous scene with all the online hook ups (and it's not a bad thing people shouldn't feel shame for being sexually active). As for the other things that "define" gay people no one said being out meant conforming to that. You can just as easily be out and never go to a gay club or bar and live life exactly as you do now, the only difference being you are not hiding part of your identity.

Also a lot of individuals hate on all the stereotypes about gay people and don't want to come out because they don't want to be associated with it (i could go all night about why there is nothing wrong with the effeminate gay but i digress) yet they themselves hold the key to breaking that stereotype just by being an out or active LGBT individual who does not conform to it.

A lot of down low culture revolves around the idea that closeted men don't want to politicize their sexuality but the fact is that our sexuality is politicized wether we like it or not. Laws being made are effecting you and your future and by being in the closet you stay silent while it is happening.

I think part of you wants to be able to be honest about your sexuality or you wouldn't be on this site, and i don't think it is right for anyone to try and out you or tell you that you need to come out right now, or that being in the closet is a terrible thing. I do believe however that you should consider what it would be like and what possibilities would be present for you if you where an out individual. I stayed closeted up into senior year of high school and tried the whole closet scene thing and trust me life is a lot better on the other side of the closet door, sometimes it can be a rough ride to get there but it is worth it to have pride in who you are as an individual.

 

i dunno, its completely understandable why gays would hate closeted people, but there are many perspectives and not just one

example is knowing someone is gay and in a marriage and is having extra marital affairs at sex on public venues such as bath houses etc, wouldn't you also despise that kind of closeted gay?

or even the ones who take part in gay bashing to hide their own insecurities and hate because they themselves wished they were opening gay and living happy

or the ones in government who are creating and supporting anti gay laws

and the last is that most openly gay men have been through alot of hardship and despise the fact that closeted gay men are living the quiet life so long as they are in the closet, after all hate is something you wish you had for yourself or something you hate to see within yourself.

 

true there are probably plenty of gay guys who view you as "taking the easy road" and are being assholes because they forgot what it was like in the closet or never had the chance to be in it.

---------- Post added 23rd Feb 2012 at 02:11 AM ----------

well i'd be careful of mistaking being out with being "part of the gay lifestyle." Also i'd challenge you to define the gay life style. It really isn't a thing, all gay people are individuals who lead different lives and everything that is "the gay lifestyle" i guarantee has a heterosexual equivalent culture that people neglect to recognize as "heterosexual culture." As for how it will make you more happy i don't know. I just know they have looked at people who are in the closet or partially in the closet and found they are less happy and fulfilled. To me it makes sense because i know i didn't like having to hide things about myself because of worry about what people would say, do, or think. I guess it really comes down to the only reason you would be in the closet is you are ashamed about being gay or worried about the ramifications of being open. All being out entails is not lying about who you are. Also i know lying about and hiding who you are in a relationship can put strains on relationships and creates complications that can weaken and cause problems in most cases.

part of being human is connecting and sharing yourself with other people thats all being out entails. All it is is pride in your identity and honesty with yourself and others nothing else.

 

in general i think you have some stereotypes about what it is to be gay and some stereotypes about what it is to be effeminate and some negative connotations associated with effeminacy that you may want to challenge.

---------- Post added 23rd Feb 2012 at 02:19 AM ----------

and don't get me wrong i don't think its wrong at all for you to stay in the closet and i think it is each individuals decision. It's like if you loved basketball but never wanted to tell anyone or let anyone know. Life would just be so much better if you could just be honest about your love of basketball and if you could just openly talk about and practice basketball after all you fricken love basketball lol i am entertained by my analogy

---------- Post added 23rd Feb 2012 at 02:19 AM ----------

also 100% supportive of bi dudes i'm queer so i don't fall all the way on one end of the spectrum either

 

When these guys met you, it was just to hook up, and it didn't matter if you were closeted. But the problem is, they started to like you. So they invited you to me more a part of their lives. But you couldn't do that, because you were closeted. So you rejected their offers.

They were not mad because you were closeted, but because the fact that you were closeted caused you to reject them, and they were hurt by it.

It always feels horrible to have someone you like tell you that they are ashamed to be seen in public with you--I don't care what the reason is. It's really hurtful.

For most gay people, outing someone who isn't ready is kind of a taboo. You'll notice that one guy, when he was hurt, threatened to out you--but neither of them actually did. And my bet would be that they won't, either.

The closet it very harmful to you psychologically. In order to stay in the closet once you are actually meeting up with guys and so forth, you have to actively conceal what you are doing: it's not a matter of just not telling anyone, at least not in the long term. And, your sexuality is part of your core personality, so when you conceal it from people, you feel like they don't really know the "real you." It undermines all your relationships with friends and family. It causes you terrible stress.

You clearly aren't ready to come out--but for your sake, I hope you are one day.

 

i agree with Ianthe although i'd also like to point out that there is a difference between treating sexuality as being no one elses business and actively working to hide and conceal ones sexuality. one is a matter of just enjoying your private life being private and if people find out your gay or it comes up somehow well it does and no biggy move on. The other option is more like "oh my god i hope no one finds out. I gotta make sure no one knows. I can't take my BF out in public with me, i better watch out about when we are affectionate. I can't tell my parents if im dating anyone. Let's just keep the wedding a secret no one will be invited." etc, etc.

---------- Post added 23rd Feb 2012 at 02:32 AM ----------

also i'd like to add that you can now wear your basketball jersey in public to my basketball analogy. Because in the end liking men should be no different than liking basketball…

 

because they are the definition of "messy gay". look it up in the gay dictionary and you will see their face. they are spiteful, dramafilled gays that have so much hurt and rejection adn insecurity that the only thing they can do it make theirself feel better by outing or gossiping or forcing someone out. they are a large part of the reason why men stay in the closet because its hard enough to try and figure out yourself and sexuality and then have their added drama added on. they feel like because they are out, everyeone needs to be out. NO, EVERYONE DOESN'T NEED TO BE OUT. it doesn't work for everyone's situation or timing. i think they do it to prove that point that "see, other guys are gay too that are masculine and its just not me". so immature.

---------- Post added 23rd Feb 2012 at 12:24 AM ----------

why is it that when anyone challenges anything about gay lifestyle that is negative ( and trust me there's plenty out there) people act like they have never seen or heard of it or act like its an isolated incident. also, they start to suggest that people are homophobic or have sterotypical images of all gay men. look, its ok to be gay, its ok to be proud of your gayness, and im sure you know many healthy non promiscious guys that are relationship oriented and want a golden retriever and a husband. that's nice. but i dont think people should have labels thrown at them like they are gay haters or femme haters when they are just making observations. its like if you dont drink from the koolaid here you get smacked with a label.

 

Where did Beachboi use any kind of label? He observed that nycbiguy seems to have some stereotypes about gay men, and negative associations with feminine men. There was no name-calling.

I'm pretty sure that on this very website, there are gay guys--including some just as masculine as you, and some feminine guys--who already have the husband and the dog. Just FYI. And people like that, well, they get offended when people talk like they don't exist, like being gay means living in a way they DON'T live, being wildly promiscuous and so on.

It's actually the people who have not fully accepted themselves and come out that are the most likely to engage in self-destructive behavior, such as excessive promiscuity.

 

I'm dating a guy right now that is completely out and I'm half out...well more like less than half. And I feel like the relationship is stuck where its at for that reason. I feel it is unfair to him for me to be in the closet because we can't fully enjoy eachother. Like I can't invite him if my straight friends I'm not out to or there....its horrible. I've made it a point to try to speed up the coming out process so I can be with him completely. It's only fair and I would hate to see him drift away from me for something as trivial as that

 

Ah, I wish that I could be so certain of things that I could so neatly condemn the life choices of others without even knowing them. It must be nice to be that dense and simple-minded.

 

I had a really long post i was gonna put up but i'll just leave it at this.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being in the closet or keeping it a secret as long as you feel the need to. I don't see anything wrong with being in a secret relationship. I'm not judging you for thinking bad things about gay culture, of course there are bad things about gay culture, there are bad things about every culture. I would never treat you differently for being in the closet if i knew you other than to make sure i didn't do anything to out you.

My stance is simply this. I am a firm believer that being fully self expressed and completely yourself without any fears or reservations beats keeping secrets any day. I believe the representation that people have of what it is to be gay is totally screwed because people never look at "normal" gay life and they always demonize "stereotypical" gay life.

I was in the closet once, and was determined never to come out and totally keep it a secret for the rest of my life at one point just live as gay and it would "be nobodies business". But i realized that like i said there is a difference between keeping your private life private and hiding something. I've had all the same fears, thoughts, feelings, and reservations as you as a relatively masculine gay man. And i'll even admit i'm a little jealous that you managed to be in a relationship and all of that without being out because that wasn't something that was available to me. But i'm not saying you should come out because i'm jealous. I'm saying it because i've been where you are I know what it's like and i am now proudly on the other side and i see that as a possibility for any person in the closet.

It's a rough road and it takes a lot of work to go down it but it is worth it.

And i'd implore you to consider that as a bi guy who is afraid to go near anything gay, you may not have as good of an understanding of gay culture as you think you do. In the end being gay means one thing, loving people of the same sex. Everything else is up to the individual.

 

@ian....i never said beachboi labeled anyone. i was speaking in general as it does occur on this site whenever people do not fully support the notion that all is happy and well with being gay. although he never specifically labeled nycbiguy, sayign that he had some stereotypes about gay men, and negative associations with feminine men was really in my humble opinion misguided because nycbiguy never really said anything about fem men and it sounded as he was talking in general about guys that chose to out poeple and not all gays. however, like i said, anytime someone says anything about the realities of what actually happens in SOME gay situations that are negative, its a feeding frenzy here.

 

Just an addendum to this discussion: some of us feel like we need to come out, but have no viable option to do it. Someone mentioned a safety net needed. In my case, for example, if and when i come out ... my life will be completely and irrevocably changed. I will lose my family, ALL of my current friends, church and other associates. My work will even be altered because it being dependent on family. I have trouble even thinking of one person in my current life that would be there if I came out. It's not an easy decision to be true to yourself when you're contemplating such radical changes.

Obviously, not all closeteds are in the same exact situation ... but some of us have nothing and nowhere to turn to. I would imagine that's the reason for a lot of DL behavior and probably some suicides as well. Thinking there are no options. Which, for some, there really aren't.