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Oi the confusing advice some people give...and me seeing myself take it

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by cscipio, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. cscipio

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    I'll try to be brief on the background so we can get to the point:

    1) Recently came out to my best friend who was super, super accepting.
    2) Best friend's parents are practically my parents - Best friends dad has a gay brother, best friend's dad has nothing at all against homosexuality whatsoever.
    3) I felt compelled to come out to best friends parents stating the following (the conversation was far more fluid, but these were basically the points)-
    a) I think I'm gay - I know I'm at definately bisexual because I have a far greater sexual attraction to men, I have very, very limited sexual attraction to women adn its usually only after I've warmed up to them considerably.
    b) I have strong romantic desires for women, I have little - if any - romantic desire for men.
    c) I don't know if my lack of romantic desire for men is socially induced or in my heart.
    d) I've avoided sexual encounters and dating since I was 18 years old because of my confusion, and my desire to live a straight life if I had the choice to do so.
    e) I've only had sexual encounters with men which was limited to exchanging oral sex. I've never kissed a man, I have kissed women.
    f) I've been with a very few number of women who I developed a sexual desire for, but, out of bashfulness, never persued. Or, they lost interest in me after a long enough period of time.


    Best friends parents love me dearly, are not very religious, are liberally minded but have deep conservative streaks, and are part of the biker community (the real biker community not the Wild Hogs variety).

    Best friends dads responses can be summarized in this way (he has a very humorous way of putting things and means no harm by the crap that spews from his mouth):

    1) You've never had sex with a woman so how can you possibly say you don't think you like pussy.
    2) You're 'sexual' encounters with men has been nothing more than "teenage mutual masturbation in eachother's mouths" - that hardly makes you gay.
    3) You say that you don't want a romantic relation with men, which means that if you persue gay sex then all you're after is 'big hairy Bruce' in the park down the road - that's a dangerous lifestyle and one that is surely to get you hurt in the long run.
    4) If you find out that you do want a romantic relation with men, which you said you don't, then I love and support you but you're looking forward to a hard life which will certainly introduce you to some pretty tough situations - "it hasn't been a cakewalk for my brother xxxx and his partner xxxx".

    His conclusion (after a long tirade about the wholesomeness of a relationship, a life partner, a best friend that you are deeply, and sexually, involved with):

    1) I think that you're terrified of sex with women and that you should "at least try pussy before you write it off".
    2) You don't have to, and shouldn't go get some 'bargoyle' to attempt to prove anything to yourself.
    3) You should go and try to date a woman.
    4) Find one that you are or may be sexually attracted to, "F*#%, go through a F*##ing hundred of them, I'll back you up."
    5) Put things out in perspective, tell her that you're not looking for some immediate sexual relationship that you want to build a romantic relationship. If it makes you happy, tell her about your past experience and that you've questioned yourself. Tell her that she is your first.
    6) It's easier for you to persue men because that's all you've had and you've developed a comfort in your mind. Ditch the porn, ditch the fantasies, and "Go get your dick wet" and if it just does nothing for you, and you prefer to masturbate with some guy then so be it, but...dangerous lifestyle if it's not a relationship...wholesome relationship (guy or girl)..."I don't give a shit if you're gay, but, you're choosing a hard life'..

    So....I don't know what to do. At this point, 16 more years of abstainance seems easiest :dry:
     
  2. TheAMan

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    Well you're definitely not gay you're bisexual. And that last guy gave you terrible advice. It sounds like he wants you to get girl just to use her to figure yourself out. At this point, your abstinence idea is sounding really good.
     
  3. olides84

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    Haha that guy talks a big game. Not sure what to say. Doubt that just getting your knob wet is gonna answer many questions. I would discount his "it's a hard life if you're gay" stuff because you are trying to figure yourself out, not figure out the easiest way to live in our society. And of course his first point about "how can you know if you never had sex with a woman" can always be responded to in the classic manner: "so, then you know you're not gay because you got fucked by a guy but didn't like it, huh?

    By the way, I do like the line that oral sex is simply "teenage mutual masturbation in eachother's mouths".
     
  4. cscipio

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    @Olides84 - I agree he runs up a storm with opinions. He means well, I don't want to take away from the point he's trying to make (though not necessarily agreeing with it). I really have no argument in the "terrified of sex with a woman." comment - deeply evaluating myself, I think he's right with that specific comment. I don't think he's right that once I get the knob wet I won't want penis again. I kept trying to get that point back across at him. For me, if I were to attempt to see where a straight relationship led me it would absolutely have to be in full disclosure, anything less would be cruel any future companion.

    You see, sometimes I think I would be resentful no matter which way I settled.
     
  5. Chip

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    As I've said on many occasions, it gets really complicated trying to come to a conclusion about where you are. And while sexuality is not at one extreme or the other for most people, most people cluster at one end or the other.

    Another thing that complicates things for you is the "I'm romantically attracted to women but not to guys." If I had a nickel for every gay guy that said that at the beginning of their coming out process, I'd be rich :slight_smile: In my experience, that is usually a part of the "bargaining" process in the stages of loss (loss of identity as a straight man). The stages are denial-anger-bargaining-grief-acceptance.

    So I suspect that if you did go out and have sex with a woman that it would likely be really unfulfilling and you'd go away from it with a "Meh" feeling. And I also suspect that there's an unconscious desire to reject being gay that's throwing up this "But I'm romantically attracted to women" defense, and that's really a red herring.

    So more than likely, from what I'm hearing you say, I would guess that you're not really so much bisexual as in the process of becoming comfortable with being gay. I'm sure your friend's father means well... but I don't think he has any clue what's really going on in this particular circumstance.

    Sometimes this is also something that talking to someone one-on-one can help you clarify. If you'd like to talk to me or any of the other advisor staff, feel free to PM any of us and we'll be happy to discuss further. :slight_smile:
     
  6. insidehappy

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    i think you have to ask yourself why you have no romantic interest in guys? you are obviously turned on by them and you can do sex acts with them, but you have no romantic/emotional connection to them? that sounds confusing to me. what i find is that many people like this have a BLOCK up regarding emotionally connecting to a man becuase in their mind, if they do it, then they will be GAY. they can do sexual acts and such and in their mind they are still experimenting or straight because they never allowed theirselves to 'love" another guy. this keeps them in a zone where they feel safe.

    it does sounds like your best friends dad has a bit of a point regading sex with women. why are you so afraid of it? you have been sexuallly aroused by it but it sounds like there is some doubt and insecurity you have with having sex with women. i think some of that stems from teh fact that if you have sex with women adn you do not like it or you do not perform well then you automatically will think you are gay and then if you are gay...now what? so in order to avoid that crossroads, you just avoid the sex and you can be in your mind an abstinant straight guy. either way, this celibacy is self imposed and a method of avoidance.

    i do not know if you are straight or gay or bi, only you do. however, i do know you are avoiding encounters and opening your heart because ultimately if you are gay, you are not ok with that.

    your best friends dad is right. if you are not having an emotional connection with guys and you do decide that you're gay, then that means you are only having random sexual pairings with men and that sounds like an empty and dangerous lifestyle. it does not sound like you are the type of person that really wants that because if so, you would have been screwing poieple right and left since 18.

    time to deal inside and internally buddy.
     
  7. casa5

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    I am not clear on my own identity, so take what I am saying with a grain of salt.

    BUT, you react to what you react to. Eroticism is a very complicated thing, and can become more aware to you over time, and that's cool. It is colored by negative emotions ("repression" is only one of them, but also fear, guilt, shame, disgust, etc.) as well as the positive ones.

    I know - for me - that I have found many things erotic in life, and have been afraid of many things that I later found erotic, and found things erotic that I later didn't find exciting at all.

    A wise bisexual woman once told me sex - at its core - is just tension and release and helping another person feel good. That strikes me as sound.

    You like guys. You're not sure you like girls. That might be colored by lack of experience, or emotional things. That's cool. If you choose to not explore the side of you that likes girls, because you either decide you like being with guys a lot, then cool. If you decide to, decide you like it, then figure out how to integrate that with the rest of your personality. And be with all those feelings in a non-judgmental way. Lots of men in life have liked guys (look at Y Tu Mama Tambien, a great Mexican movie by Alfonso Cuaron) and also women. Lots of men in life who like men A LOT more can find women extraordinary and sexy (look at Pedro Almodovar directing Penelope Cruz - this is a man that understands a woman's beauty and loves them on some level) but really prefer men. (Sorry for the movie references only but the intermixture between homoeroticism and heteroeroticism are very interesting in Hispanic cultures to me).

    Just remember this - not everything in life is repression. It really should be about what you LIKE not trying to tell yourself what you DON'T like, and understanding that there are infinite layers of the onion to peel away and they shift and merge. You'll never get to the center, so begin exploring, take care of yourself, be careful about the powerful emotions that sex can take on and the effect on you and other human beings, and it's all good whatever happens. (Easier said than done I know).
     
    #7 casa5, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  8. cscipio

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    As usual, solid, solid advice.

    I've spent a good part of the day filling out an ######## profile (still on vacation) - already think it's a stupid idea and pretty sure I'll scrap it.

    Chip, I honestly respect your advice - I'm still trying to figure things out though. I've said before, I'll say again, you're probably right....but.....every time I start to think it's just denial in me I reflect and reflect again. One thing I can't get my friends dad to understand is that, for a fact, the best possible outcome of me getting with a woman is that I'll like women, sexually, just as much as men. That's the best - it still doesn't make any sexual desire for men go away as he thinks (not that I'm viewing that as the goal). I can say this though, screw the online dating thing - women you meet from an online service might think it's cute for a 20 year old guy to be exploring sexuality, but not 34 year old men. So, (and feel free to chime in on the good/bad here), I should probably try (if anything at all) a casual hook-up with a woman through friends with it all out on the table. If it's all out on the table to begin with, worst that can happen is we part ways as friends...