Extreme Self Hate

Really tell me more

---------- Post added 28th Feb 2012 at 12:35 PM ----------

Look i lost all my friends ,might lose my job, and never leave my home but to work for love of god there has to be hope

 

>>>Something went wrong in the womb. I don't feel normal, I feel dirty and defiled.

For all I know, alternate sexualities ARE some sort of genetic or developmental fuck-up. I presumably DID somehow develop differently than my straight brother in the womb. I personally consider it like being left-handed. Most people are like THIS, but some are like THAT. And what do we do for left-handed people? We don't ostracize them or wonder what their parents did wrong to make their children come out "different". We buy them a pair of green-handled scissors, teach them how to write without smudging what they just wrote, and then life goes on, y'know? It's no big deal. And I don't think it's supposed to be a big deal.

>>>I look at some gay people and think "you're not gay, you're a girl born with a penis" because I swear that may as well be the case. I'm talking about those raving, in-your-face gays who hold their paws up for Lady Gaga, where ridiculous clothes and dye their hair like a 15-year-old schoolgirl. I don't mean to offend anyone who applies to this sort of description, but I can't help looking at them and thinking "you look psychologically sick to want to be like that."

Why? Because YOU don't want to be like that?

There are lots of people out there who are into things that I have less than zero interest in. I see people dressing up as Stormtroopers going to Sci-Fi conventions, and other people chasing their favorite bands across the country, and guys growing handlebar mustaches, wearing white belts, and presumably practicing riding penny-farthings on the weekends. I don't want to do any of these things, and some of them seem kinda silly to me. But see, I don't see the need to dictate what they find enjoyable. I don't think they're fucked in the head for wanting to dress as a Stormtrooper. It's the 21st century, damnit, and we all should find our own way towards enjoyment. We're not stuck selecting from a small set of possibilities.

The difference between this and femmy guys is, of course, that you don't feel Mr Stormtrooper invading your space. You don't feel that people are going to think YOU're like a Stormtrooper because this guy dresses as one. But you presumably see femmy guys as an indictment against you. When you hear a squeal of delight from a femmy guy, or see one walk buy in fab gear, you presumably hear that voice saying what you don't want to hear.

"This is what you're like."

And I dunno - maybe you are. I don't think I am, much. I've got a few effeminate traits. But I'm not much on current pop music, and you'll always find me in T-shirt and jeans, and I'd rather go to a sporting event than a dance club. But see, I don't have any issue with effeminate guys. I actually think they're kinda fun, in much the same way that Mr Stormtrooper is. Because they're both saying "This is what I like, and so this is what I'm going to do, and fuck whoever doesn't like it." And that's precisely the attitude I think people need to take in life. I didn't ask to like guys, but it ends up I like guys, so I'm damn well going to enjoy the hell out of liking guys.

>>>To me, homosexuality is just...sex. I feel like I'm setting myself up for a life of misery just because I have an abnormal preference of where I want to stick my penis. They say the life of a closet is 10x more miserable, but I can honestly say I was 1000x happier when I was in it. Now I'm at the point where I even feel disgusted watching gay porn, and find myself drifting and thinking about women whilst it plays. I've had girlfriends in the past and all I can think about these days is how I want one again. I want to take one to the cinema and fool around on the backseat like I used to be before I discovered homosexuality. Life was simpler, life was better...To any of you who love being gay, I want to know your secrets because I cannot honestly see how you can enjoy this life. They say sexuality doesn't define you, but being gay defines you. It defines everything you do with your life.

In a sense, homosexuality IS just sex. It's me being attracted to guys instead of girls. It may or may not have some sort of effect on the rest of my life, but most places, I don't think you'll find it. I'll go out to a rock concert, or to the aforementioned sporting event. I'll cheer like crazy, and then go get some drinks with my friends...and then go home to my male partner. That's my "gay life". But even if it's not a prominent part of my life, it's not some sort of squirreled away part of my life either. The friends I go to sporting events and concerts with? They know I've got a guy at home. Hell, I'll chat with some musicians and pro athletes after the show/game, and THEY know. And you know what? They don't give a flying rat's ass. They hang out with me the same way they'd hang out with a straight guy.

My life isn't defined by my sexuality any more than it's defined by me being male or white or blonde or any other aspect you want to highlight. Yeah, certain things are a certain way because of my sexuality, the same way certain things are a certain way because I'm male or white or blonde. I buy briefs instead of bras, and I have to stock up on suntan lotion if I'm going out in the summer sun. Big deal, y'know? And yeah, there are probably people out there who think less of me because I like to get hot and sweaty with dudes. Guess what? I don't even know who or where they are. Because I'm busy living my kick-ass life with people who don't care about such things.

Lex

 

Just to be clear, there are quite a few people who don't like being gay. And I don't think anyone particularly likes being gay (I mean, who likes being an oppressed minority?), but it's more about liking the ability to be yourself. You don't come out to the world to let everyone know you like guys, but rather so you can lift the weight off your shoulders that forces you to hide yourself all the time.

It is 100% about what society tells you to believe. Something is only considered 'abnormal' because it doesn't fall into what the majority of society is. As such, being gay is abnormal, because statistically we make up 1/10th of the population. The notion of marriage occurring only between a man and a woman is due to religious beliefs, trickling down into the political side of the world. If we lived in a world without media influence or religiously-based settlings, there would be no heterosexual norm. And quite honestly, to say otherwise does nothing but lies to yourself. And on the flip-side, if we did live in a world without these things, our instincts would dictate what is right and wrong, in which case all you'd want to do is go out and find a guy, and not care about what anyone else thought.

If you did good research into it, there is nothing properly proven in any way that dictates what makes a person gay or not, whether it's nature, or nurture, or something else. And what you 'feel' doesn't constitute any proper quantitative data, and effectively means nothing in terms of this research. It's fine to feel that way, but don't use it to back up any researching findings you had, or vice-versa, because the two are separate.

Well, we already established that being gay is abnormal. Is it something hardwired into your brain? I'm sure everyone can agree it probably is. Is it a mental disorder? Certainly not.

Stop for a second and think of how many super feminine, flamboyant gays that you described that you see in a day. Probably not too many, right? Because of the gay community, they are likely the minority. Statistically, if 1 in 10 people are gay, there are a whole shit-ton of gay people unaccounted for. Of course 'they' are what you think of when you think of gay people; because the rest (and vast majority) of us are rather average. You wouldn't be able to pick us out of a crowd. It's a stereotype and nothing more (though, it is very hard to get past that).

Technically, homosexuality is just about who you want to have sex with. Homoromanticism is a separate thing, but usually the two go hand in hand. Is it possible you only want to sleep with guys but love a girl? Sure, but it's unlikely, so I wouldn't hold onto that notion to save yourself from being a full-fledged 'gay'.

Straight people can not be in relationships too, y'know. Just because you're straight doesn't automatically mean you're going to find a lifelong, loving, fulfilling relationship.

I enjoy this life because I enjoy it like everyone else enjoys theirs: I have friends and family who care about me. I have hobbies I enjoy and am going to be in a career that I'm good at. And I want to go on dates with people I like. So where does the difference lie between me and other straight people again?

Being gay defines you as much as you let it. I don't go around introducing myself as "Hi, I'm __, and I'm gay." If you choose to do that, then good for you, but don't complain about letting it define you if you go around spelling it out for people. The less of an issue you treat it, the less everyone else will.

I'm coming across as harsh, and I know that, but it seems like you're in a place where if I feed you compassion, you won't receive any of it. So, hopefully this comes across in a way to really get you thinking about whether what you said is what you really think or not.

 

I think you're looking at things with an incredibly narrow mind. And you offended more than just the people you thought you would.

First, I'm no more effeminate than the average straight guy. I do guy things, like working out, fishing, watching sports, etc. You saying that being gay is bad because of all the negative stereotypes that you've been persuaded to believe, is a low blow to dudes like me. And it's things like that that's partially keeping me in the closet.

There's more to being gay than just dressing up or flinging limp wrists around - those are stereotypes. Just like there are many variants of "straight" - I know straight guys who are assholes, and straight guys who are awesome. Is putting down on the stereotypes honestly making anything easier for you? Acknowledging them negatively is just going to make things harder for you in the long run.

Believe me, I know how you feel. We all go through rough times in our lives of self-hate. I still do, even. But it comes to a point of "do you really want to be happy and how is that achievable?"

Lastly, there is such a thing as being bisexual. I don't know about you, but I've never been one for limiting the things I like. Try things out. Look at yourself from a 3rd person perspective. Finding out who you are takes time- that is something unavoidable.

QFT

 

The reason we had helpful and enlightening posts? Because the positions and statements you laid out in your post weren't unfamiliar to most of us. Many of us have had them, to varying degrees. On a positive note, we've also found a way to get beyond them.

Lex

 

A life sentence? Hardly. I'm blind & a lesbian. I truely had to come to terms with both of them. I went through 4 years of my childhood trying to pretend I was a sighted straight boy. Seriously. Then I decided that pretending to be a boy wasn't working for me, so I decided I must be a straight girl, which was probably harder than binding my breasts & shaving my head, because I knew I liked girls. As for my blindness ... well that was messier.

I was like you actually. When I read this I kind of had a flashback, & it was scary. I can feel that anger. It's frustrating thinking you're different. Damn happy-ass liberal campaigners of all things homosexual, & those fucking candy-panty teachers who preached about how blind people are just as good as sighted people, just as "able." I hated that word, I heard it so much & never knew what it freakin meant. Well it was the same thing all the time, gays are normal, blind people are normal, & I was like "Dude, no they're not!" & I wanted to be normal. I used to cut myself & cry & beat on things because it wasn't fair that I couldn't be normal. Fancy sayings like "There is no such thing as normal," or "Love is love," or "Sexuality/disability doesn't make the person" made me roll my eyes. I needed proof of it, I need to feel it myself, & I didn't for a long time.

So my only words of wisdom to you is just relax. Scientifically no one has proved that homosexuality is not normal. Evangelicals have, maybe, in their own opinions. But even so, don't base your whole life on statistics, & certainly don't base it on some stereotype or some future image you have of yourself with kids & a wife. That may be what you want but if you're gay it's not what you're going to have, not if you want to be happy. You might think that fucking some girl will make everything better but at the end of the day you're lying to everyone including yourself, & you'll feel it later. You'll feel it, & it won't feel good. If pride means nothing to you now, it'll mean something when you realize you've sacrificed all of it to fit in with what you think is normal.

 

I was just about to reply to your first post when I noticed that you've come around later. Anyway, it is better that you go through this self loathing phase sooner rather than later. I went through the same hell when I was in high school.

Right now, I won't say that I'll choose to remain gay if I were ever given a choice (which, by the way, isn't a choice and that is the general consensus by the American Psychological Association (APA) despite lacking in evidence to directly correlate it to any factors). I think nobody, in their sane mind, would choose to lead a life of discrimination and public abjection.

However, given the fact that I have recognized that it isn't a choice, I have come to terms with it and decided to give it a whirl (pardon my crudeness :lol. So far so good. At the very least, I feel better than before and I'm planning to stick with it till the end.

More info about APA's view on homosexuality is available here:
American Psychological Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Sorry to here you feel that way about yourself. Comparing homosexuality to blindness was very clever of you. In reality, only the blind are those who will not see. It was also very tactful of you to post this here, impressive how you kept your audience in mind while writing your piece and sharing. Thanks for providing us with your home made crack cocaine form of anti-gay garbage. Think things through before being a mean spirited drama queen in a public arena. If you want an example of something that is inherently flawed and defiled, re-read every one of your conclusions and theories.

 

I think one starting point is the serenity prayer - at least the first part. Grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change.

You can't change your orientation. You can change the way you feel about it though.

 

Self-hatred is a terrible thing my friend, it is no way to live life in my mind. Much better to be self-accepting. Everything looks more airy and ethereal that way.

 

obviously we've never met in person, i don't actually know you, but this is what i determine from reading your posts here:
1. you are way too concerned about what other people think of you. the whole marriage + kids thing is fine, but is that what you actually want? or is that what you were taught is the measure of success in life? think of how many movies are about people freaking out because they're 30something and single. because other people judge them for being single. i'm not saying it's impossible for anyone to want marriage and a family, but i do believe most people think they want it because of media/traditional imagery/brainwashing. and your aversion to lgbt group settings: are you afraid of what anyone would think of you if they found out you went there? i do agree that it's not fun to feel like people think that's where you belong, but without having tried it you have no idea how great it could be. it could help you find yourself.
2. you think of sex as if it were something 100% understood and scientifically explainable. it isn't. not just for the human species, either. homosexuality is found in many other species. people don't know why. they'll try to explain why, you'll read so many different reasons for it, so why worry. who cares what the non-existent rule book says.
3. you have internal walls that keep you from thinking and acting freely. you're projecting negative thoughts onto potentially positive things, and that's keeping you from seeing positivity in anything. knock those walls down.

get to know yourself as an individual. you don't need a label. you're not abnormal and there's nothing wrong with you. again, knowing you only as the words you've posted, i think your self-hatred comes from other people's negative opinions of homosexuality. try to get those people out of your head. rise above them and discover yourself on your own.

 

old post, but i got to say it...deaf is not an unfortunate disability! it is only to people who are hearing who don't know that being Deaf is something to be proud of.

---------- Post added 13th Apr 2012 at 07:57 PM ----------

oh, and this oldie, i got to tell you lefties are often made to put the pencil in the right hand and made to try to be a righty. serious. and they end up being less good with both hands.

 

Now write an equally long paragraph defending the opposite point of view. Go on- you can do it. It'll be a surprise.