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A baby step

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by WhyHIM, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. WhyHIM

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    Greetings! I'm brand new to the forum and I am in an extremely difficult situation involving my fiancé. I am actually straight but he has had some very troubling sexual orientation issues. Right now I am only reaching out to you and hoping to gain enough courage that I can post again soon and tell you the actual problem. My fiancé is my entire world and I don't know how to discuss this very serious and sensative issue without hurting him and/or our relationship. I don't know where else to turn because I am the only person who he has told. I see a counselor for my own issues but I don't even feel comfortable telling her about this one. It's just too disturbing to discuss face to face with someone. I hope to gather this courage on my own but any encouragement would be much appreciated. Thank you for reading and I hope to be back soon once I'm ready to open up.
     
  2. Eleanor Rigby

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    Hi and welcome to EC :slight_smile:

    I'm Cécile and I am one of the advisors on EC. I am a straight woman too and I am currently in a relationship with a straight man who happens to be asexual.
    There is absolutely nothing you have to be worried about. You can talk about everything that bothers you here. If it is too difficult for you to talk about it under you screen name, you're also welcome to post in the anonymous section if that makes you more comfortable.
    You're also welcome to PM any advisors of the staff team, including me :slight_smile: You'll find us here

    So, what the matter is ? :slight_smile:

    Take care, Cécile
     
  3. silverhalo

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    Hey welcome to EC, I can assure you that you are safe to post anything here, everyone here is extremely friendly and welcoming to any problems, even if they are not LGBT related.
     
  4. Jim1454

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    Hi and welcome to EC. I'm also a member of staff. I was married for 9 years to a woman before finally coming to recognize and accept that I was gay. So if your issue falls along those lines I might be able to help. Either here or in the 'ask the staff' area as Cecile mentioned. Or you can send a personal message directly to me or any other member of staff. Thanks.
     
  5. WhyHIM

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    Thanks everyone. I really appreciate your warm welcome. Our story is so horrible, so complicated. I'm going to need some serious advice from as many of you as possible, so I'm going to keep it in the forum and hope that lots of people will read it and reply. I'm in the process of writing it all down and editing it for posting. But even these baby steps I've been taking are terrifying and unbelievably painful. Thanks for being patient ;-)
     
  6. Eleanor Rigby

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    That's fine sweetheart :slight_smile: Just post when you're ready. You don't have to let us know everything at once either. Start with what's the easiest for you to talk about and we'll build from here.

    Take care, and don't be afraid (*hug*), Cécile
     
  7. Gravity

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    Adding another voice to the chorus to tell you that you can feel absolutely safe here. :slight_smile:

    Also, as for your original post, even there I see a lot of reason for hope. The fact that he told you about this says a lot to me - as you are no doubt aware of at this point, it's a very personal issue he trusted you with, especially considering your relationship. Doubtless, it will be a long road for the both of you, but hopefully you find some help (from here, as well as from your counselor eventually, if you feel comfortable opening up, and from others).

    Good luck - I know writing the next part is hard for you, but I think talking about it will be really good for the both of you. (*hug*)
     
  8. WhyHIM

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    :help: :help:
    Hello everyone, I've come back to the forum and I'm finally ready to open up about my/our problem. I posted months ago and am just now getting the courage. It's a very long, complicated story so i'll do my best to keep it short but include the important details. First I'd like to tell just a little about myself so its easier to see where I'm coming from.
    I'm a straight female in my late 20s, never married, no kids. At the age of 14 I suddenly fell ill with an untreatable illness, my health deteriorated over time and I'm now chronically ill, disabled, and unable to work. I have been diagnosed with many different conditions by many different types of doctors and tried the very limited number of treatments that have been offered with no success, so I try to live in the moment because my future is very uncertain. I'm poor, (poverty level poor) mostly housebound, and I have very few social contacts because of everything. I'm too physically weak to maintain most relationships so when I am lucky enough to find people who understand my needs and accept me for who I am, I work hard to maintain those relationships. People who understand and accept my limitations are unfortunately very hard to find. I also haven't had very many romantic or physical relationships but enough to know what's out there and what I do/don't want in a partner. No 'casual' relationships or one night stands, I have only slept with people I had strong feelings for.
    My fiancé is one of the only people in my life who doesn't make me feel like less of a person because of my physical limitations. I stopped looking at the rest of the world in anger because he and I have created our own little world. Most of all I take a lot of comfort in knowing that even on my worst days when I feel like I'm missing out on things in life, he will always be there next to me while I watch those things pass me by. It's easy to see why he has become my entire world and why I feel I can't live without him.
    Here's our history. We first met when we were in high school and we had a short relationship that ended when he broke up with me over something stupid. Years later (about two years ago) we reunited and started seeing each other again. We fell in love almost immediately. He is a thoughtful, romantic, hard-working man who adores me and makes me his world. I'd found who I wanted to share the rest of my life with. It was a dream come true!
    About a month into our relationship he called me on the phone and said he needed to tell me something. Apparently during the years that we didn't see each other he had some bad relationships with women who broke his heart, lied to him and destroyed his self esteem. He also made some very poor choices, hung out with the wrong people, and started drinking and doing meth; which he became addicted to and kept using for around 5 years. All of these things along with other personal issues combined with sexual frustration and uncertainty about his orientation persuaded him to try messing around with guys. He said that he couldn't find any guys to hook up with and that he was scared to ask people he knew and risk people in his life finding out and outing him so he went online and found some guys to meet up and have sex with. The way he explained it made it sound like these guys were complete strangers. He said that he liked it because it was easier with guys to just have meaningless sex and not worry about having a relationship and having his feelings hurt. I asked him (among other questions) if he used protection and he said no. He also told me that when he stopped using meth he didn't "feel gay" anymore so he stopped hooking up with guys; and months later started dating a woman who was a notorious slut and of course, treated him like crap. But once he'd had enough of her crap he broke up with her and again started questioning his sexual preferance. So he hooked up with a guy from his past for "one last time, just to make sure", and "didn't like it" thus confirming his suspicion that he "only felt gay on meth". He had one more casual hook-up with a woman then became horribly depressed and spent several years avoiding his issue by ignoring his sexual urges (which, he explained, had virtually disappeared). During this time he also quit doing meth, and eventually cut back on drinking.
    When he first told me all of this I was so shocked and confused I was pretty speechless. I felt bad that he had to go through such a confusing time but I was concerned because I had no idea what he was capable of. I didn't know how to react and I tried not to judge him because don't know what its like to be bi-curious and I don't know what it's like to be a guy either. At the same time, I was disgusted and disappointed. I never knew someone could hook up with a complete stranger just to avoid having feelings that could potentially be hurt. I've had my heart broken too. I always thought that was simply the risk you take when you have sex with someone. Call me old-fashioned, but I never have understood the concept of casual sex because I have never wanted to hook up with someone who I didn't have at least some sort of an emotional connection with. Not judging anyone who does, just that its a foreign concept to me. Perhaps depressed young men who are bi-curious and on drugs become too desperate to care.
    He has done a lot since then to assure me that I am fulfilling his every need and that I am the only person (among women and men) that he has ever known who has made him feel that way. I decided that I didn't need to worry about why he did what he did because he's a different person now. In the end he figured out what he really wanted and it's me. I didn't see any reason why we could just leave his depression, drug use, and sexual uncertainty in the past. I did a lot of thinking and soul searching and eventually started to accept his dark past.
    Then about six months later (about a year and a half ago) things got even more disturbing. He told me something that has constantly been haunting me for over a year and a half and is now horribly complicating both of our lives. He told me that 8 years ago while he was doing meth he became very desperate, so he visited his gay uncle (his mom's brother) and his boyfriend to ask if they knew any guys they could hook him up with. Somehow it led to him having sex with his uncle's boyfriend. He went back over to the house a couple of months later and it happened again. If that wasn't bad enough, when his uncle found out and got jealous he wanted to watch. That led to the uncle's boyfriend and my fiancé inviting the drunk uncle to join, and he did. They went on having threesomes for almost a year when my fiancé got his head together enough to realize what he was doing. He stopped going over there and they have not spoken since then except for an awkward exchange of words at a family gathering. They've continued on pretending nothing ever happened.
    As I stated before, he hadn't told anyone but me what happened with his uncle at this point, but he recently said that he told his best friend about it shortly after he told me. His friend and I have not discussed it and I'm not interested in doing so.
    It's been over a year and a half since he told me and I am still in a state of shock. I have obviously had a lot of time to think about what happened and what it all means. I've come to believe that the meth use turned him into someone else and I have enough faith in him that that person is gone forever.
    But since I came to that realization I have become increasingly angry about his uncle's role in this whole mess. My fiancé was a young, scared, alone, extremely confused, depressed and intoxicated person when this all happened- his uncle was none of those things. He's just a perverted old man who can't control himself. He knew what he was doing and instead of seeing that his vulnerable nephew desperately needed guidance (from a family member OR a gay man) he decided to seize the opportunity and fulfill his own 'needs'.
    The thing that probably upsets me the most is that he doesn't even know that I know. I have had to face this issue and try to make sense of it, and it has deeply affected my life. The fact that he has just continued on with his pathetic, disgusting existence and still claims to be an honorable member of a family that he has betrayed in such a shameful way makes it seem like I'M the one suffering the consequences of HIS mistake. How can he feel comfortable showing his face around the family after what he did when I can barely look them in the eyes just because I know about it?! If I ever DO see him around he will be lucky if he's able to walk away. I told my fiancé that I don't want that freak anywhere near us and he agreed. But he obviously can't promise me that unless we confront his uncle, which of course could end in disaster. I told him that I'm also extremely uncomfortable with him contacting his uncle in any way without me being involved.
    That was the last time we discussed the issue and it ended with him proclaiming that he would go the next day to tell his mom everything and then bawling himself to sleep. I told him to think about it more and not act rashly, and that I didn't see how telling his mom would even help. We agreed that we'd rather find a way to take care of the problem without his mom having to know.
    My fiancé proposed to me just before Christmas. I answered him with "probably" because I couldn't give him the firm "yes" that i wanted to with this cloud still over out heads. At that point in time I was extremely worried about the upcoming get together for his family because I heard through the grapevine that the piece of crap was going to be there. Since I knew that my fiancé was expecting him to be there too, I somehow assumed that the problem would be resolved one way or another and that my "probably" would become a yes or a no, depending on how he handled the situation and the overall outcome. But of course, he didn't show up so nothing was resolved. I think it's my fiancé's responsibility to figure this out and that he should have had a plan before he even proposed. Furthermore I think it's unfair that he dropped this on me and I have to be the one to address it.
    My fiancé is pretty close with his sibling, mom and dad which I thought was going to be great. But now that I know what I do, it is hard to be around any of them because just looking at his mom makes me remember the horrible things that happened. I also HATE lying and have always prided myself on being open and honest, especially with family. However I know that if the family knew what happened it would only cause them pain. I want to move past this so desperately and be happy with my fiancé because he means the world to me. I honestly don't think I could be happy without him. But I don't know if we can go on the way things are now. How am I supposed to join a family when I know that a complete freak is hiding in the shadows and that I will likely have to keep this secret from them forever? Do I have any other options? What is the best way to talk to my fiancé about this gently and if we decide to, how should we confront his uncle? Should I feel guilty keeping this secret from my potential future family? I'm trying to stretch the engagement as long as I can just to leave time to deal with this, but it will be at least a year away for sure.
    I'm so scared that even discussing this with my fiancé will break his heart and destroy our relationship. He is still so traumatized that bringing up the family situation deeply depresses him. He has also expressed that his life wouldn't be worth living anymore if I wasn't in it. As I have explained, my life would never be the same without him either. I am desperate for advice and any insight on this from any perspective. Please help me, I have nowhere else to turn.
     
  9. Lad123

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    Thank you for sharing your story, it was very brave of you :slight_smile: and wow that was a lot to read and take in, I'm not sure if I can answer all your questions but this is what I have to offer anyway.

    I have this feeling that your fiance is in deep denial over his sexuality. Personally, I don't think drugs can turn guys gay (I have limited knowledge about drugs, maybe they can but I highly doubt it) I think it just brought down his denial wall and thus allowed him to act on his desires. From what I have read on EC is that there are many cases of guys who go into depression because they can't deal with their sexuality. They want to keep their minds from thinking about it so they turn to drugs and alcohol. His previous experiences with girlfriends also have not gone well, another indicator of a closet case or someone who is in denial.

    You said the incident with his uncle happened 8 years ago but I got confused on the timeline with the rest of his other sexual encounters. From what I read I take it the incident with his uncle happened first and then all the other things followed on from there?

    Even though what his uncle did was wrong, I don't think you should direct the blame towards him fully. I understand your fiance was confused and needed help but he did ask them if there were any guys they could hook him up with. I'm not saying your fiance was asking for it but he had some influence over the matter as he could have refused to sleep with them. You fiance also visited frequently there too.

    I'm really glad you decided to hold off the engagement because he really does need to figure out his sexuality. I think he proposed to you in haste with the thought of 'if I marry and have children then maybe these gay thoughts will go away'. However one thing you must do is indeed keep talking to him about it because I'm sure it is constantly on his mind and needs all the support. You don't want to rush into marriage with this problem unsolved because I have a feeling it will resurface in the near future, leaving you with a broken heart.

    I admire your 'being open and honest with family' but in my opinion, telling the family about the incident with your fiance and uncle will cause more problems than good. It will destroy the relationships in the family, and they may blame you for breaking the family apart. I don't know, you have a real dilemma here :icon_sad:

    These are just my thoughts from a regular member so I think its best you listen to one of the advisors reply for a more 'professional' insight.

    Hang in there! (*hug*)
     
  10. Jim1454

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    Hi there. Welcome back to EC.

    While I might be an 'advisor' here, please don't consider any advice received here to be 'professional'. I'm just an average Joe who tries to share my wisdom, often acquired the hard way, with others.

    Having read your post, I actually have a similar sense as Lad123. This incredible discomfort that you have with the situation around the uncle is weighing very heavy on you if you've still worked up about it 1.5 years after being told. I sense that it's bothering you more than it's bothering your fiance.

    I can't help but think that at least some of your anger is misdirected. I would agree that it sounds like a pretty icky thing to do to have sex with your nephew. But they were all adults at the time, were they not? And this wasn't an isolated experience - your fiance kept going back. He was obviously enjoying himself or he wouldn't have returned.

    (And yes, I think guys are better able to have "meaningless" sex with people than women are. I think it's how we're programmed to some extent. And with the addictions at play, I'm sure your fiance was capable of doing things that you can't imagine doing yourself.)

    So I'm thinking that some of what you're feeling is about your fiance and his role in this, even though you don't want to really acknowledge that - for reasons you've mentioned. (Him being your whole world.) Both for the fact that he was having sex with men over and extended period of time, and that one of those men was his uncle. There's likely more to his orientation than he's willing to accept. As Lad123 suggested, it might have been the drugs or booze that lowered his inhibitions, allowing his true desires to surface and be acted on. I don't think straight guys, when they're high or drunk, have sex with other men. They still have sex with women - just more of them, or the wrong ones.

    The only person who really knows whether your fiance is gay or not is your fiance. And until he's ready to admit it, he's not going to. He might be able to repress it indefinitely. He may not. I was married for 9 years and had 2 children before I finally came to the realization that I was gay. I didn't want to be gay, but I had to admit that I was. I'd been unfaithful, and my marriage ended in divorce. Things are good now, but it was a pretty rough patch for both my ex wire and I, as well as our daughters.

    With respect to the uncle, this isn't really as much your business as you make it out to be. This happened when you weren't involved with your fiance. He was (from what you've indicated) a willing participant in this arrangement with the uncle and his boyfriend. I'm not convinced that it's your place to say anything, or even insist that your fiance say something. You seem to think that some kind of public confrontation is required which will send the uncle into isolation. That would allow you to attend family gatherings without feeling uncomfortable because he's there. I'm not sure that it's really your call.

    Another alternative would be for you to avoid family gatherings so that you don't need to see the uncle.

    In the end though, only you know what will make you comfortable enough in your relationship for you to accept the proposal and get married. I certainly hope you're able to do that and to find some peace because this situation seems to have you really torn up inside. And that's not a nice way to live.

    Not sure I've helped, as I'm not sure this is what you wanted to hear. But it's what I got from your post. If I've misunderstood something maybe there's opportunity to clarify.
     
  11. Aldrick

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    I'm going to have to agree wholeheartedly with Jim and Lad. I know this likely isn't what you want to hear, but sometimes you need someone to tell you those things. Plus, I'm pretty sure nothing that has been written are not things you've considered yourself.

    First, you seem to place a great deal of blame on the Uncle for what happened. Your fiancé went back again. And again. And again. Stop a moment and think about that. I am not saying your fiancé does not regret what happened. I'm not saying your fiancé doesn't feel guilty. However, you are placing all the blame on the Uncle when your fiancé was an adult and a willing participant. Yes, he may have been on drugs, and you could make the argument that the uncle exploited that fact. That still does not absolve your fiancé of the role he played in what transpired.

    Second, drugs do not make people gay. It just doesn't work that way. Imagine yourself getting insanely drunk; are you suddenly going to develop sexual attraction toward women? No. Of course not. Now, that doesn't mean people who are addicted to drugs won't prostitute themselves out for more drugs. They certainly will. It also doesn't mean someone who is extremely intoxicated wouldn't accidentally find themselves having sex with someone of the same sex. However, what is the likelihood of this happening over and over. I mean, seriously, stop for a moment and consider this. How many people do you know in your life, straight or gay, go out and have sexual encounters with the opposite or same sex every time they get high or drunk?

    Your fiancé is struggling with his sexual orientation. He might be in denial. This is not his fault. You shouldn't blame him for it, so many people go through it. He might not even fully understand or accept it yet. But at the very least your fiancé is most likely bisexual. I don't normally like applying such labels to others, because it feels wrong. It feels wrong for doing it here, but in your best interest I am being as honest with you as I can - the likelihood that he is 100% straight is fairly small to non-existent.

    Third, no matter what both you and your fiancé need therapy. I wouldn't even consider getting married to him until you've both been through some serious counseling. Otherwise, no matter what happens, things are going to end badly. I'm being upfront with you here. You do not want to enter a marriage carrying around the type of feelings that you are carrying. You want to enter a marriage with your eyes wide open and knowing what you are getting into. I'm not saying that if you get married things won't work out. I'm not saying that you don't love each other. I'm not saying he doesn't love you. I'm simply telling you that for things to work out in the best way possible - these issues need to be resolved before you even consider walking down the isle. You both need therapy together and separately.

    Fourth, I learned this the hard way in my life. You might not be ready to do it, but until you do - all of this that you're going through is going to hang over your head like a dark cloud. It's going to poison everything. You need to learn how to forgive. That means forgiving yourself, your fiancé, and his uncle.

    Forgiveness is not about overlooking the mistakes and wrongs committed by other people. It's not about shutting your eyes, turning the other cheek, and allowing yourself to be hurt again. No, forgiveness is about letting go. You can't change what happened in the past. The hurt is real, it's there. But you are actively choosing to hold onto it. You are letting the bitterness, the anger, and the resentment poison you and rob you of happiness. You are allowing something that didn't even involve you directly to rob you of your joy.

    You may think blaming his uncle and punishing him will make things better. It won't. It will cause other problems, and it won't erase the pain you feel. The only way to ease the pain and to move past this is to forgive. Until you have the ability to stand in the same room as your fiancé's uncle, look him in the eye, and say to yourself, "I know what you did. I don't approve of it. You were wrong. But I forgive you, I'm with my fiancé now, and I won't let you take advantage of him again." Then you can't move past it.

    You also have to accept your fiancé's role in all of this, and help him come to grips with his sexuality - whatever it may be. Then you have to forgive him, too.

    Then, and only then, will you find the peace and happiness that you want. Until you can do that, you are simply going to continue to poison yourself with this anger and bitterness.
     
  12. WhyHIM

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    Yes, everything you're all saying has already been a reoccurring thought in my head. I've put so much thought into this, trying to solve it, that I'm driving myself crazy. I think I'm getting desperate too so it's hard to organize my thoughts and decide which ones are rational. What you're all saying is what I need to hear- keep it coming please!
     
  13. WhyHIM

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    I think it was the other way around. In fact I think he said one of the ways he tried justifying it (to himself) was that 'at least they weren't strangers I found online who probably have diseases'
     
  14. WhyHIM

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    Not to say you gentlemen haven't been helpful, but I think some insight from a woman would be really helpful. Anyone? Is anyone (male or female) in a life-time relationship or engaged to a bisexual? Anyone who is forced to keep a secret from your partner's family in order to protect your significant other, but that secret is negatively effecting your relationship? More viewpoints, please! Thankya :slight_smile:
     
  15. WhyHIM

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    Please? :eusa_pray
     
  16. silverhalo

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    Im not sure that its what you want, I am in a relationship with another girl whos family dont know and in general I dont think it has a massive negative effect.
     
  17. Deaf Not Blind

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    I think you actually know what to do, deep inside. The answer was always there. It is not your answer you want, not your dream come true, it is a horrible nightmare and you want it to be somehow alright and back the way you had imagined life to be. It isn't. I am sorry. You will be much better when in counciling with a professional. so will he. but if he won't seek help and take responsibility, you will end up being the one hurt. You hurt now, you think there is maybe nobody else like him who can accept you, so you just can't let him go. I bet he is counting on it. Has he been, um, checked for std? With drugs and sex comes a chance of vd. Be wise as you are caring! Go talk to someone right away, please.
     
  18. Farouche

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    I think I would break of the engagement if I were you, or let him know clearly that you're not ready to get married until the two of you are able to talk about his past. Professional counselling would probably help if you can find a counsellor who is accepting of LGBTQ people (that may be easy or not, depending on where you are). The relationship may survive or it may not, but if it's not going to survive then it's better to find that out now than to get married and then have to break up.
     
  19. Gravity

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    First of all, I'm happy that you've finally found a place and a way to tell this story. I'm sure it's been weighing on you just as much as you say, if not moreso, over the years.

    Not much to add to what people have already responded with, but I think it bears repeating that, as you are already suspecting, getting married at this point in your relationship (and at this point in his family's history) would be a very dangerous idea. At the very least, I think putting the engagement on indefinite hold and getting him (and possibly yourself) into therapy is the best idea. I can understand the desire to stay with him, but I don't see how this kind of background and context can be conducive to anything healthy.

    As for his sexuality, I don't know anybody who's been addicted to meth, so I can't say for sure what role it played in his encounters with men, but I have to admit that I was initially skeptical that it somehow "made" him gay. As for his final hookup that "confirmed" he didn't like it - if somebody goes into an experience looking to have a bad time, they'll have a bad time. That doesn't necessarily prove anything about his sexuality to me - as has already been pointed out, his history with men consists of more than one or two accidental, isolated encounters. This doesn't prove that he's gay either, of course - he could very easily be bisexual or something along those lines - but again, I think some therapy would be the best way for him to sort things out at this point.
     
  20. lemonlime

    Regular Member

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    Hey,

    I don't agree with everything that's been posted here in response to your post. I'm a cis-sexual woman (I was born biologically female and identify as female) and confused about my own sexuality and I'm nearly 30. I have no professional credentials for counseling or the like.

    Your fiancee may be attracted to men. That doesn't mean he's not attracted to women. He could be gay or bi-sexual, pan-sexual or feel some other complicated mix of feelings. Maybe he's sexually attracted to men but feels emotionally attracted to women (namely you). It's possible he's gay and in denial or else confused and unable to understand his own emotions. There's no point in speculating as he's the only one who can figure out and disclose his feelings.

    To claim that his return to have future encounters with his uncle and the other man was a fully-formed decision on his part and not in some way abusive is horse manure in my opinion. It's tantamount to claiming that an abused woman must like it if she keeps going back. "He was obviously enjoying himself or he wouldn't have returned." is highly offensive to me.

    His uncle was in a position of power because of his relative age, his family status and his position of trustworthiness as an out gay man who might be able to advise your fiancee. Your fiancee was exceptionally vulnerable at that time in his life and in need of support and assistance. The drug use likely deepened an already existing problem your fiancee had and as I reckon he was in his early 20's at the time he was still very young. I consider this to be an abusive, incestuous relationship. This was not your fiancee's fault even though he returned, even if he was sexually aroused, even though he maintained a relationship with his uncle (however limited).

    I would personally divide this into a few separate issues. The drug use and associated emotional problems sound like something the two of you are able to work through. The sexual orientation part is a lot more difficult than it is sometimes made to sound. He might need assistance with that exploration. The relationship with his uncle to me is abusive incest and you may find that there are separate forums where you can find support about this issue specifically without having to deal with his orientation as part of the same question.

    As funds sound tight, I would suggest seeing if any sexual health clinics offer free counseling as part of their services. Trying to contact counselors directly may be expensive. Planned Parenthood clinics (if they still have funding where you are) often offer these types of services.