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I Can't Come Out To Myself?

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Kangapunch, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Kangapunch

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    Hello everyone, I'm a 22 year old guy going to college. My mind is kind of a mess at the moment so excuse my rambling. When I was 13 I realized I like boys as well as girls, just not as much. Since then I've went through phases of being interested in guys to not even consciously remembering that I have. I've never had a sexual or romantic experience with another man. I've had a few with women, not many though since I'm insanely shy to begin with. I just know that with women I enjoy it and look forward to plenty more of that.

    I've just always identified myself to not only my friends and family but to myself as a straight guy, I still feel it. I somehow think that because my standards when it comes to men is really really high that it doesn't exist.

    I don't know if its my "high standards" or the fact that when it comes to taking it out of it being a fantasy in my head to real life it doesn't translate and I'm just not comfortable looking at men the same way I do women. I have had sexual thoughts about men many times, but it hasn't even just been sexual - every now and then I get a crush on a guy and the feelings go totally unexplored because I'm not sure if it's real or I'm just crazy. Maybe its because I'm not getting much in terms of my love life when it comes to women, right now, I've been thinking more about men or maybe its because I just feel like thinking more about men now. Part of me thinks I'm trying to justify to the part of me that still thinks I'm straight why this would even happen.
     
  2. Billy Costigan

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    Since you fantasize about men explore one of your crushes. It doesn't have to be sexual. You could just hold hands or kiss although I think you'll know how you feel before it comes to this.

    Take care man
     
  3. WeirdnessMagnet

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    What you wrote is so very me in the college... I went the "ignore it, I'm STRAIGHT" route, and I deeply regret it. What you get out of it is a vicious trap of " The only way to shut out same-sex attraction is to postulate men aren't supposed to be cool or sexy, -> I'm a man -> I'm not supposed to..." So, of course you're "insanely shy" and equally of course you have "high standards" for men, and even more of course you don't get much of a love life going on. Not to scare you, but in my personal experience, the more you ignore this elephant in the room, the worse it gets. Not to mention that your "gay side" is still there, and quite often is fairly obvious to everyone who has a clue, except you. Which results in all sorts of confusing situations, and that confusion further feeds your shyness.

    Now, what you can't picture a same-sex relationship in a realistic way is sort of expected, I mean it's not like you have any examples right before your eyes as you do with straight ones. You're in a college, so they teach you how to do research there, right? How to find sources, how to read them, how to use multiple books, articles, etc. to corroborate info (or decide it's total BS, which is more often true than not about anything related to sex, especially this kind...) If there are any LGBT groups in your college, consider joining them, as a straight supporter only there for politics, or as someone questioning. That's fieldwork.

    That your degree of attraction to men and women varies over time, that ebb and flow of bisexuality is a common, absolutely normal, and expected thing (at least among other bisexuals, many strictly straight/gay people never heard of the concept.) I myself am still in the process of getting really comfortable with it and its implications, but just recognizing it for what it is, and not freaking out and over-thinking all your life since age five each time you "wake up gay" (or straight!) is an awesome relief. That's just me being bi, that's just how it's supposed to work.

    Good luck and hope my ramblings are of some use to you.
     
  4. Kangapunch

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    Thank a lot for that response. If I stop ignoring the elephant in the room in my life when it comes to guys, will that make my relationships with girls better too? Is this an entire personality changing thing I have to go through? I gotta say, something in your post spoke to me and scared me because I'm starting to come to grips with it more but I can't make that final leap of 'this is who I am always to everyone'.
     
  5. insidehappy

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    right now just focus on you. i have been there before in teh same boat and in college i was in the same place. thinking guys were cute but stuffing that down inside so i could still be "straight". what i can tell you is that the repression of these feelings never really goes away. if you think guys are cute, you will always think guys are cute. doesn't mean you will or will not act on it, but does mean that you will always pretty much think that. high standards are great, but you have to offer the same thing you are asking for. so if you are not a carbon copy of the ideal guy you are looking for, then you need to be more realistic with what you want. if you dont offer the qualities you want in a guy, that "ideal guy" probably isn't going to want you either. my advice to you is use this precious time to explore yourself now so you can either fish or cut bait on the gay thing. that way, you dont wake up in your 30s or 40s married and in a mid life crisis because you want to roll in the sack with the pool boy.
     
  6. YIAW

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    You're still at an early stage. I came out to myself just one year ago, and at first calling myself anything else than straight felt so wrong and awkward (and right, at the same time). I don't have a lot of experience and I can't help you more than this, but I can assure you that when you stop repressing these thoughts it will become slowly easier. Take it one day at a time, explore it if you feel like it, then if it gets scary think about something else, and try again the next day. Take it slowly, but make an effort.

    Sorry, this wan't really helpful :frowning2:
     
  7. WeirdnessMagnet

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    Ok, it's a bit difficult for me to answer that one, let's just say I was a close Internet friend of an itinerant dating guru at one time, and the story told in "The Game" rang sooo true to me as a result. (Mind you, his operation wasn't so renowned as one Neil Strauss stumbled upon, and stakes were lower... But the dynamics was essentially similar.) And the whole experience sort of soured me on the whole concept anything worthwhile can be said on the subject.

    So, no promises, and what I'm saying might be a total quackery, but... What attracts people to you, male and female, gay and straight, is clear mind, knowledge of what exactly you're after, and of how you're going to achieve it. All else is just gimmickry, mumbo-jumbo, and pointless attempts to conform to the supposed rules of The Game. And you really, really, really can't achieve this clarity if half the time you're doubting if you even want a straight relationship in the first place. Acknowledging you're bi may not magically solve all your issues with the opposite sex, but it will solve some, and would make you more likely to solve more.

    "Personality change" There's no change as such. You are what you are, whether you deny this or not, whatever gimmicks you deploy to mask it. It's just sorting out genuine feelings from sham excuses.

    Being bi "always to everyone," that is, coming out completely, is neat, but it doesn't mean that you must do it right away. Get comfortable with it in your head first, learn to accept it without any obfuscating gimmicks. Realize that you have been doing some "gay" things all your life (you have been, believe me) without acknowledging it, and when you "catch" yourself doing them, think "it's OK, I'm bi." And you had been doing them anyway, and the sky didn't fall yet as a result, so where's the harm?
     
    #7 WeirdnessMagnet, Mar 9, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  8. Kangapunch

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    The thing is I never doubt that I want a straight relationship, no matter what is happening in my head when it comes to men, and that makes it pretty easy for me to keep not facing it. But yeah at the same time I have been doing gay things all my life, which I never really think about a second time. The crush I have for a guy right now is as strong as any crush I've had for a girl, so it's been making me think really hard recently. And to YIAW, you were very helpful actually thank you :slight_smile:
     
  9. WeirdnessMagnet

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    Do you really? Ok, I'll try to put it into a completely heterosexual context.

    Imagine a friend of yours having a choice: an energetic, opinionated, and slightly kinky girl he has a great time with, versus a sweet, compliant thing that cooks nicely and is liked by his mom. Which "choice" would he make for a wife? Yea. And then he either fails to get her (because he's not really that into her) and goes to my friend dating guru, wondering if there's some magic trick that he can use, or he gets her... And then a few years into their relationship some quack of an evolutionary* psychologist uses them as a great example of "mixed mating strategies" (cheating, that is) in his Ph. D.

    Had that friend of yours been more frank with himself about what he really wants and prepared to make his unconventional relationship work, instead of trying to conform to that cookie-cutter pattern... Something awesome might have been born out of it (or it might not, but c'est la vie.) The standard way, they only make counselling industry and divorce lawyers richer.

    *Nothing against evolutionary researchers that aren't quacks. I'm actually a big supporter. But I seriously doubt that evo psych is onto anything worthwhile.
     
  10. Filip

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    Well, if you never ever doubt something, maybe that is a sign it is a thought that would stand up to doubt after all :wink:

    Or, at least, that's how it worked for me. I've had crushes on guys ever since I was about 13, but... never really consciously allowed myself to think about it. On the times where I did come close, I always stopped myself subconsciously.
    Something like "Oh, stop, Filip. It's just a phase. All guys probably have these thoughts every so often. No need to torture yourself with gay fantasies!"
    or: "Hey, maybe this guy is totally hot. But... do you really want all the hassle of dating a guy when you could just hold out until the right girl comes along?"
    or even just a basic: "Do you really need it spelled out why this would be a bad idea?"

    Thing is... at some point, after ten years of this, I started wondering: "well, brains... maybe you should spell it out why this is a bad idea. What exactly would I miss? What would be so horrible?"

    And... I couldn't really come up with a good answer. Sure, it would mean some explanation to friends and family. It would mean some hassle when trying to have kids.
    But then I started wondering whether I'd still date a girl that my parents didn't agree with, or who couldn't get pregnant, and my conclusion was: "I'd do it, if I loved her"
    And as I tried imagining in detail what being in a relationship with a guy would be like, I couldn't really find a lot of other differences. It'd essentially still be spending a lot of time doing fun things with a person I felt heavily attracted to. And what could be wrong with that? I didn't actually start coming out or dating guys just based on that. But it was ddefinitely a good step on the road of finding out more about myself.



    So maybe you should try something similar? Not yet to the point of actually dating a guy. But challenging your preconception about "only straight relationships work for me".
    You're not losing a lot here. Just some time to engage in the fantasy. And no one will even so much have an idea you're engaging in those kind of fantasies.
    Imagine taking that guy you're crushing on on a date. Imagine holding hands and seeing a movie. Imagine leaning in to each other to the sofa. Imagine some more explicit things if you feel like it.
    And then ask yourself: "If I could do that with this guy for a long time to come, would that work just as well as a straight relationship?"

    The answer might be yes, or it might be no. But then at least, you got the answer through wondering "why?" instead of by just assuming it is impossible.
     
  11. TexaCali

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    I think you should stop trying to place yourself into a category. You are your own unique version of a person and your feelings are yours, they are real. Tell your next male crush how you feel and see if he responds. If it feels right, pursue it. If it feels wrong, move on. I think you just need to let yourself be who you are and "fly your own flag." Bi, Gay, Straight, all just labels and categories to save people having to actually think and be empathetic.
    I wanted to wait for the perfect man. I wanted it mean something, to be beautiful. What a fantasy! I don't know a single person of any kind who doesn't recall their first time as less than stellar.:rolle:
    Give it a go with a guy. See what happens. It's probably the only way to know for sure.
     
  12. insidehappy

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    you souind like you are conflicted and in denial. lets face the facts dude....if you really wanted a relationship with a girl and you were 100 percent straight (which studies have shown very few people are) then you would not be on empty closets, you would not be still thinking/obessing over a guy, and your passing same sex attractions would just be passing and they would not give you pause to "wonder". the fact of the matter is that your crush that is as strong for a guy as it has been for a girl, is very telling. doesn't mean you're gay, but it does mean at least you have bi thoughts/curiousity. what you need to do is decide now what road you are going to go down.

    1. stuff the gay thoughts down inside deep and dark, acknowledge to yourself that you have attractions for men but you will never act on them.

    Result: you will have crushes on men throughout your life, even when you are married and it coudl get to a point where you may be a married man, who wants to leave his wife and kids to explore the attractions he had repressed. check the threads, there are a lot of guys like that on here. do you want that kinda life?

    2. explore the gay feelings: basically get things out of the way now so you wont have to deal with the confusion years later. doesn't mean you need to go out there and have sex or anything but if you think you may be attracted to a guy and a guy is attracted to you, maybe you should see how it feels to be in his company in terms of going on a date or two, kissing, or something else that forces you beyond your current represssion. only then will you know if you feel comfortable or not with this or if this is for you or not. then you can make a decision based on where you want to be at that time. but atleast you are confronting it and getting it over with.

    i wish i had done #2 (no pun intended) when i was in college or your age, i think it would have made me either face the same sex attractions earlier so i would have been able to deal with them. however, i repressed like you're doing now and have my secret crushes that sustained me. but the years went on, and the repression did not last and now i am dealing with sorting all this crap out now in a time/age where i would rather be more confident and sure of who and what i am versus figuring it out. also, at my age, i am finding it difficult to meet other guys that are now just starting to come to terms with things because most of the people that are out there have gone through this process when thely were teens or early 20s. my advice is sort this stuff out now.
     
  13. unknownerror

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    I'm nearly 40 and just now accepting who I really am. Maybe that doesn't make me overly qualified to be helpful but I wish that I had followed through with my feelings when in college instead of waiting until now and 20 years of pathetic relationships with women I wasn't even really attracted to.
     
  14. greeneyes

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    Hello!

    Some great advice so far. Not sure much I can add, but I am in college as well going through a similar experience.

    It's really hard to act on same sex feelings when A) you can't do it unless you've come out (most of the time) and B) there's such a culture of heterosexuality (hook-up culture, relationships, etc.).

    I'm very confused as well and it's hard to deal with. I don't think changing your personality is a good idea, just being you is perfect. I know for me I swing by a few months (as opposed to every day or something) - I like guys for like three months and then I like girls for three months. Or at least that's how it's currently going haha. I'm shy when it comes to dating/relationships/hooking up too so I have trouble even with holding a heterosexual relationship. But I'm trying to work it out best I can by joining a group, talking with friends, and seeing what happens along the way.
     
  15. Kangapunch

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    Thanks a lot for the responses to everyone, I really appreciate it. I'm really confused right now but reading some of what I read here just convinced me to be more honest with myself. I can't say this will last very long, but I have been thinking about it all day with an open mind and not shutting it out like I usually do and I felt alright. I told a friend (and for the first time a guy friend) that I'm bi. I don't know why I rushed into it so quickly after thinking of doing it but I felt like I had to. My friends not straight, so of course, he was accepting of me. I hope I don't abort the direction I'm heading in right now, because I still don't feel like I accept myself.