Sorry, this is kind of long, if you've been in Courage or Exodus you can probably skip sections of this, but if you haven't then those sections might help you understand better where I'm coming from. I'll italicize those sections. When I was a young teenager, I was involved with Exodus and Living Hope Ministries Youth Section, a place for Christian people who struggle with what the Church calls same-sex attraction. I liked their ideology that our sexuality can't control us, and I liked that they defined us as people with same sex attractions instead of as homosexual people. I had a lot of personal reasons for why I could accept my friends being gay and out, but at the same time approached my own orientation with great trepidation and shame. So when I found these people on-line saying I could change my sexuality if I tried hard enough, I believed them because I needed it to be true. Eventually I converted to Catholicism, and switched from Exodus to Courage. Courage doesn't explicitly tell people to try to change their orientation, but provides resources for people who want to try and uses a 12-step-program (like AA) approach to sexuality - which was weird for me, because I've never really struggled overly much with porn-addictions and I've never even been sexually active. I just know that when I do fantasize, it's about women, and that all the people I've had crushes on and thought about in a sexual way have been women. And I know that when I try to think about men in a sexual way, it just doesn't feel natural. I was even considering moving to the southern US at one point, because I heard about this organization of psychiatrists who still treat homosexuality as a mental disorder, and I thought since nothing else was working maybe I could go and try whatever treatments they offered. Thank God I worked up the courage to ask my dad's friend, a psychologist, for his opinion of those treatments and he talked me out of considering it. being in Courage really messed me up - I read articles about how the way a homosexually inclined person relates to other people is fundamentally messed up, and I started examining every single friendship I had to see if I was too attached, and I tried to create more distance between me and everyone. I've spent the past two years, since I realized that my orientation is not going to change, feeling extremely depressed and frequently suicidal. I'm terrified of what will happen if various people in my parish, and if my family, figure it out. My grandmother thinks we'll go to hell if we're friends with gay people - what will she think about being related to a lesbian? I started to notice that I wasn't the only one, in my particular Courage group (an online group), that was dangerously depressed. It seems like the majority of people there are either bordering suicidal, abusing drugs or alcohol, or self-injuring. And I started thinking, by their fruits you shall know them, and I thought, God can't want this for me. I've started talking with a few of my choir members about it, and my writing friends, and I've been to my first PFLAG meeting. I'm WAY better than I was even a month ago. I was wondering if anyone else has been through an ex-gay experience, and if anyone knows if there is a natural grieving process I should be expecting to go through, or if there's any way to make this easier... is it normal to feel like I'm failing by giving up? is it normal to be so angry, so ashamed and so scared? I still over-analyze every friendship and worry that I am getting too attached. I still feel guilty for thinking about the crushes that I have. How do I stop judging myself for this? How do I get through it?
It is absolutely not giving up. It's living your life to the full potential God gave you. And yes, you are going to feel a wide range of emotions from guilt, to grievance, to shame, to remorse, and in time, to acceptance, and mental, physical, and spiritual regrowth. I never went to any ex-gay experiences. I simply hid what I was and buried my homosexuality under a lifetime of lies and deceit. When I came out to my sister the other day, she laughed so hard and told me, "Do you know how many people I've defended you against? Who thought you were gay, but I said you weren't?" In the end, it didn't matter to her. It never did. She knows me for who I am. She even said she'd be there when I get married. That's a powerful affirmation and something that tells me I should have come out much earlier. And maybe lied a little bit less. As you go through the coming out practice, keep one thing in mind. God is love. There is no barrier put up by being a gay or lesbian person between you and God. I am firmly convinced that everyone of those people who tried to condemn us and tell us that we're going to Hell will have a very rude wake-up call when they stand before God to answer for their sins. I commend you for taking the steps to accept who you are and I wish you nothing but the best. As for the guilt, it's part of the natural process and will eventually fall away as you replace it with love, friendship, and acceptance. Going to PFLAG is a wonderful first step. It let's you know that you're not alone. That there are others, even if they do not have the same coming-out experience you do, who will be sympathetic to your situation and offer moral support and words of encouragement. One of the primary things that held me back from attending social events for gays and lesbians was the perceived (in my mind) nature of these events. I had visions of wanton abandonment, open sex, and being forced into situations I was not ready to handle. I couldn't be further from the truth. The events have been fun, lighthearted, and the element of homosexuality often never came up. We were just regular people enjoying the comforts of socializing with other regular people. I'm sure you'll find the same thing where you're at. Whatever you decide to do from this point on, you are who you are and God is with you every step of the way. Don't forget to talk with Him about your frustrations, fears, triumphs, and successes. Come back and visit EC often, too. It's an amazing support community with a long history of helping its members. Keep us posted on your journey. You'll soon find that your very personalized path to acceptance and beyond becomes an inspiration and lesson for others on the board.
Hi there and welcome to EC. The above post in response to yours was beautiful - so I do not have much to add. What I will say is that you will eventually get to a point where you feel good enough and confident enough about your orientation that what your grandmother thinks about it will not matter to you. You will be able to tell her you are gay and know that she is wrong in her beliefs - and not care all that much. (Perhaps that does not sound right - you will care about your grandmother but you will want to educate her - instead of fear her judgement.) I will echo one point - hang out here! EC is full of awesome people - most of us being gay. And if we can be gay and awesome - you can be gay and awesome too! So welcome. You have come to the right place!!!
Hey I also dont have much to add but to say that its totally normal and I went through a lot of that guilty, and feeling of failure and im not religious. You have started down the path to happiness and im pleased for you.
Yes it is. You've been through one of the most traumatizing experience a gay person can live. These kind of organizations (Exodus, ex-gay camps, reparative "therapy") should be illegal ! They do nothing but harming and traumatizing gay people. Being gay is NOT a disease (or a psychiatric trouble). It is merely a variation of nature. If you allow me this analogy, it's just like being left-handed. There are more right-handed people than left-handed people in this world. That doesn't mean left-handed people are wrong, or damaged, nor that they need to be fixed to become right-handed. That's just the same to be gay. There is more straight people than gay people in this world. That doesn't mean being gay if wrong, nor that gay people are damaged or need to be fixed. Being gay means falling in love with people from the same sex. Nothing more. What the hell can be wrong with this ???? Unfortunately, you've been taught from a young age that being gay is wrong. Loosing your own internalized homophobia reflexes is something that takes time and work. I can only encourage you to keep going to Pflag's meetings. Being surrounded with LGBT people and people who are acceptant and supportive of LGBT people can only help you to grow more acceptant of yourself. But given the very traumatizing experience you've been through, you may also consider to start a therapy with an LGBT friendly therapist. Someone who would personally help you to understand your own guilty and negative thought mechanisms and would help you to learn how to think differently of yourself. I also encourage you to stick around EC. There are plenty of people here, from all age range, from every place of the world, from every sexual-orientations and gender identities, all with different backgrounds and stories, but all with a common point : we're here to help and support one another. Take good care of yourself (*hug*) and see you around, Cécile
I just wanted to iterate that JRNagoya's response was beautiful and said it all. I know I always appreciate a lot of people commenting on my threads saying they relate, so I'll add a smidge more. I did not have a hard time coming out due to religious reasons, though I do feel the same way as JRNagoya about not being accepting of who I am for a long time. I did grow up in an environment too where being gay was somewhat unacceptable. I can't tell you how many times people used the words "fag" and "gay" in a negative way, and there was literally only 1 person was out of the closet in high school. The environment was also vicious and made me feel horrible about myself in so many other ways. I basically hid in a/the closet studying my ass off. Luckily I got out of it when I went to college, but the experience sometimes lingers. When it does I think about how much I've grown and my new support system.
That was some interesting material on Courage. I did not know about this group, but it is not surprising that someone out there is trying to treat gay people like addicts. A lot of people who don't understand homosexuality can come down with the belief that homosexuality is all about the sex and the carnal gratification, and it's not like that. Gay relationships can and should have a spiritual aspect of them, even for secular humanists. Your sense of failure stems from the fact that Courage succeeded in getting you to really want to try to do what they wanted you to do. That was their mission, and that's the idea behind any 12 step program. It's part of why 12 step programs work so well for treating alcoholics and sex addicts. Unfortunately, if the goal you set for someone in this way really is an impossibility, TROUBLE. Something that boxers and martial artists often do, when they are struck down, is to coolly evaluate the delivery of the blow that put them down on the mat. They consider the details of the execution in an appreciative light, and there is a value to this. When they look at it in this way, the pain they are in stops being such an insult, and they can see it as a sign of something that was done very well and in good style. Therefore, try to evaluate your feelings in this way. If you ever really wanted to put the drive in somebody to succeed at something, to the point that the very idea of failure hurts, the approach used on you is something you want to remember. This puts a new tool in your belt, if you will. You might not agree with it being done to you or to other gay people, but I'm sure you can see where it would be useful. Your feelings are normal, and it's okay to feel the way that you are feeling. Believe in this: you can heal from your experience. Hold that belief close to your heart because that is what truly matters.
OP, I am sorry for what you have had to go through. I can tell you from experience that it is much better to accept your gay/bi side, instead of denying or ignoring . One thing that may help you, considering that you are a religious person, is to look into the Metropolitan Community Church, or another more enlightened, Christian organization. It is possible to be both gay/bi and Christian, even Catholic. It would also do you well to do some research into the specific passages that condemn "homosexuality". To give you an idea of what I am talking about please watch this video: [YOUTUBE]o_D5Oa5n1nY[/YOUTUBE]
Ughhhhhhhhhhhh I'm so sorry you went through that stuff. I know a person from my old campus church is doing Exodus stuff, and I really want to write to him and beg him to stop. I myself never went to it but I did consider it for a bit before I was put off by the really negative vibe they were putting off. I don't know. There's some really good reading out there. I'd encourage you to check out gaychristian.net. Check out their writing on the Side A and Side B arguments. Personally I think Side A makes the most sense. But you'll have to go and read it for yourself. There are also some great books out there - check out "The Children Are Free" on Amazon.com. Also, John Shore's blog is excellent, and he self-published his own book on the topic here Amazon.com: UNFAIR: Why the "Christian" View of Gays Doesn't Work (9781467950428): John Shore: Books It's going to be a bit of a journey - I'm still having self loathing issues and it took me FOREVER to come out to myself because of my Christian upbringing. But it sounds like you're going in the right direction.
I am seriously overwhelmed by the responses - by the number and by the depth of all of them. Just. Thank you. I have a lot to think about and a lot to work through, and now I'm not alone anymore. It's been such a glorious evening for me. I found a website for ex-ex-gays (what a mouthful!) and it's really helpful. I reconnected with an old friend I thought I had lost. I started a blog (as advised to by the website I found) to help process through my feelings, under a pen name so that it can be a totally safe place for me to explore. I'll probably have a more cohesive or at least a more intelligent reply tomorrow. but for now I just so badly wanted to thank you.
I'm still feeling completely overwhelmed... I started reading on a web page for ex ex gays, and it turns out that what I was told might have been the cause of my homosexuality, can not have been the cause of my homosexuality but might have been the cause of me joining an ex gay program... why does it always come down to the chaos and pain of my childhood? (rhetorical question there) I can't help but feel guilty for thinking and feeling these things, but I'm still happier than I was. I'd rather feel guilty than hopeless and suicidal, so this is a definite improvement for me. so much to learn!!! I'm LOVING this website. and so much healing to do... HOW will I get through this?
Did you have a rough childhood? The thing is...I'm not sure that problems in childhood cause homosexuality or not. I had a great childhood (and I'm very fortunate and thankful for that). I'm gay. Lots of people have terrible abusive childhoods.....and are straight. I don't see any correlation myself. Not sure if that makes you feel any better, I hope I'm reading your post right. I just feel a strong sense of solidarity with people who have extra trouble with being gay because of their Christian background....because that's what gave me so much trouble I think. It took me forever to come out to myself, to even look at the issue in the face instead of pushing it down. I still have a lot of internalized homophobia and self loathing to deal with but I'm amazed at how far I've come in the last few months. Keep going, and if it gets overwhelming give yourself a chance to take a deep breath and forget the issue for a few days while you let your mind relax. I know when I first started this journey it was going through my head constantly, and that can be exhausting.
I haven't been through an ex-gay experience, but when I officially came out as trans and started testosterone, I grieved. I realized that most of my young adult life had been a sham, that I could have come out sooner and been spared a lot of pain, and that I'd basically lost the childhood I wanted to (and could have) had. That's a harsh reality to swallow. And I myself did feel like a failure, for not being able to "be a girl". I know it's not the same, but there's a similar inability to be the nice and normal person everyone expects you to be, and that's rough to deal with. It IS normal to feel badly like that, but you're not a failure. You're not giving up. You're slowly coming into your own and realizing that your sexuality isn't a horrible, evil thing. That is a GOOD thing. Yes, it is normal to be angry and ashamed. It's what people drilled into your mind, and it takes a while for that programming to get undone. The only thing you can really do is hang in there, keep talking to people and actively work to undo the damage that was done to you by these organizations. Everything else I could say has already been said.
