she still cares about me but she's not supportive of my decision to leave Courage :(

Re: she still cares about me but she's not supportive of my decision to leave Courage

You should never ever think that being homosexual will be cause for rebirth in hell. THAT IS NOT TRUE. IT IS MEANT TO FRIGHTEN YOU.

Intolerance, hatred, animosity, violence, cruelty, ignorance, bigotry ... these things can be cause for rebirth in hell.

Don't let a group of intolerant, self-loathing, foolish people make you feel bad about being yourself. They call themselves "courage." You are the one with real courage! To be yourserlf, to confront ignorance and hatred in this world in order to find peace with yourself and the life you were meant to lead. Have faith! Have courage! Have strength of conviction!

You have my support and there will be others who will love and support you as well.

 

Re: she still cares about me but she's not supportive of my decision to leave Courage

That's the worst part with deeply religious types... They're no mean bullies, for the most part. Mean bullies rarely have a philosophy or faith beyond "TEH GAY is yucky" (or pulling a Ted Haggard.) Deeply religious straight people honestly think they're doing the good thing, the right thing, that they're supporting you. And yes, this forms a sort of naturally occurring good cop/bad cop act that is very seductive.

As a lifelong atheist and sceptic I can't advice on any way to reconcile your faith and homosexuality, all I can say that while these people are genuinely well-meaning, it doesn't make them any less fallible, and thus potentially wrong than the rest of us. They, by their very nature, have no direct experience of homosexual attraction, so it's easy for them to dismiss it as something superficial and amenable to things like 12-step programs. They have no clue, and we all know that clueless, but well-meaning people usually make any situation they're interfering in worse, rather than better.

 

Re: she still cares about me but she's not supportive of my decision to leave Courage

When it comes down to it, I'm a full believer in evolution. Not only on the physical meaning, but also the spiritual, mental, and psychological aspects of the term. Human beings were meant to adapt and thrive. We are meant to change, evolve, prosper, always moving forward in our attempts at bettering ourselves. This is what you're going through now. You are evolving from what you once were to what you will become. What's great about that concept is it's entirely in your hands just how far that evolution will take you. Call it controlled progression. It's life in your hands. You are the person who controls just how much you want others to influence your life.

In your other posting, I stated that God is love. For me, that is the be all and end all. I do not allow anyone else to sway me on that position. Your faith is in a bit of a turmoil right now because what you've grown up believing is being challenged by how your body is developing. The thoughts and emotions that are coming to you naturally are counter to how you've been taught. In all honesty, I want you question your religion. Question your beliefs and most importantly, question God. That is how we as Christians are going to better understand not only who we are as people, but who we are as believers in God. It's really sad that the church or its leaders don't teach their congregation to question everything they're taught. It's through questioning and raising arguments that we learn. Hopefully this is something that you'll find yourself doing.

You brought up maybe adopting at some point. That's an excellent suggestion. As for the concept of every child needing a father, I can point to all my uncles and firmly state their children would have been better off raised by a single mom rather than having a drunk, deadbeat bastard of a father hanging around. You make your own family. Don't let the illusion of blood fool you. I may have biological family, but that doesn't mean I have to include them in the tight circle of people I love and consider true family. I've been very blessed to have what I consider my 'second mom' and my 'third mom.' They're not related to me, but I have their unconditional love. The point I'm trying to make is, define family in your own terms. You'll be better off.

Lastly, we're allowed to make mistakes. We're allowed to be human and everything that that encompasses. We're allowed to hate, to love, to forgive, to grieve, to move on, to reconcile, to change our opinions and change them again. We are allowed to live as who we want to live as. Had I followed my own advice, I would have come out 20 years ago. However you decide to live your life, make it your own.

 

Re: she still cares about me but she's not supportive of my decision to leave Courage

To the OP...

Sweetheart, I'm so sorry your going through right now. I've been here, not in the exact same situation, but close. It's really really hard and it hurts, not only have you got to contend with others picking apart your decisions and emotions, internally you may still have that self-loathing mindset. I know I struggle with the balance between faith and self-expression and I think it's something that I always will struggle with.

All I can say is I tried to make myself straight, not with therapy but by myself. I pushed it down, deep down and tried to smother it. And guess what happened, I NEVER GOT ANY LESS GAY, I just got more and more miserable and filled with self-hatred. You have been very brave, if I'd been under the pressure you seem to be...well I might not be writing this.

You are who you are, nothing can change that and no one should try to. I know (Catholic myself :eusa_doh that there is a rigid set of rules and great perceived penalties for breaking them. The constant mantra of 'let what you have said be done unto me' comes to mind. But their interpretation of the bible, of God himself/herself/itself is just one, and made by fallible men. How many Catholics are there that follow the contraception rules religiously?, how many who resist the urge to request an abortion for their under-age daughter if she began pregnant from rape? How many would actually allow a gun to be put their head for their faith?

I mean no offence to Catholics, my mother is one, my uncle and many of friends, I retain some of it's teachings and go to mass. I'm merely using these scenarios as a means of comparison, because that's what those people at courage are trying to make you do, they're asking you to give up a possible lover, a possible family, your life or at least some of it's keenest joys are on the cutting block. How many of these pushers, these good Catholic's who pay homage to self-sacrifice at mass give up what we 'depraved homosexuals' are being asked to give up?

Secondly, why should you do it?

Love is love, God looked at creation and said 'this is good'. I truly believe being gay is due in some part to your biological make-up, how could you control that?, you could very well argue that they are insulting God himself by trying to 'cure' you of something completely natural. Remember 'Judge not lest you be judged'. My mindset is 'forgive them Lord they know not what they do'...they do believe their doing the right thing, but remember for most of history people believed that bleedings were advantageous to health!

Love yourself and stand tall, God loves you, hell is not a place for people who 'love' the wrong way, love is love and love comes from God. Hell is for people who hate not love. You're stronger than me already, keep fighting! (*hug*)

 

Re: she still cares about me but she's not supportive of my decision to leave Courage

(*hug*) First of all, Im so sorry that you are going thru this. No one should be made to feel this way, ever.

Secondly, while I know that youre friend believes that she is simply holding to her beliefs, I think she is being quite unfair about how she is being to you. Perhaps, in time, she will come to see that her beliefs need to be adjusted. You said she was like a second mother, so maybe hopefully she will think, reflect & (I have no doubt) pray about how to reconcile her longtime friendship with you versus her belief system. Sometimes, but not always, people who have these sorts of beliefs come to see that they arent correct after someone they know comes out to them. After all, the only thing that has really actually changed here are two words - 'Im gay.' Absolutely everything your friend has known about you, shared with you, laughed or cried over with you, none of that has changed, only her perception has changed. Perhaps, with time, she will change too, realizing that you are still the good person she has always known you to be, & that it is her that has changed, not you. As for the whole, kids need a father, there are plenty of single-parent children who grow up to become amazing members of society. If she pushed the issue, point out that gay people are just like straight people - there are single parent familes either way. And, if you have children, you dont have to adopt, you can always give birth too! Moreover, many children of same-sex couples are found, in a couple of studies Ive read, to be just as well-adjusted, happy & productive members of society as opposite-sex parents with children, in at least one study Ive read, it indicated more so in some respects.

While it hurts so much now, just know that you are the brave, courageous one, & that your friend may disagree with your decision but it is just that - your decision to come out. You didnt decide to be gay. So dont let your friend bully or make you feel as if youre decision to make your life better & to be true to who you are is an incorrect one. Some people feel the need to make others feel like their decisions are wrong, but only because they feel helplessness & a lack of control in their own lives. Just know that all of us here on EC are here for you! (&&&)

Again, big (*hug*) s & try to see what courage YOU have, YOU are a strong, brave & wonderful person, worthy of happiness!

 

Re: she still cares about me but she's not supportive of my decision to leave Courage

i love this post because it echo's how i have felt. when it boils down to it, you just can't help who you are attracted to. just like some guys like blonde haired girls and dont like brunettes, it's kinda just a preference. everyone has something that gets them going and they're attracted to. the only difference with gay people is that they get "going" by members of the same sex. just like the straight guy that likes shorter girls, or blonde gilrs, or whatever his preference is, he really can't change it. that's just what he likes. but there is no condemnation for him becuase he still likes someoene from teh opposite sex. a fews years back in the not so distant past, people in teh US that were of opposite races (black / white) could not marry, could not have attractions to each other and were taught that it was wrong, sinful, weird, bad, against nature, and im sure they were told they would burn in hell. can you imagine the hurt they must have felt to love someone or be attracted to someone but not be able to pursue it just because of a skin color difference. well im sure u can because that is what you are going through right now. i wish i had all the answers. i wish i was a biblical scholar and could interpret the Bible in a way that made things easier for same genderloving people. I do not have the knowledge on that. but i have to say that God loves you. Whether homosexuality is a sin or not, i honestly just dont know. i have beat myself up on this as well. What i do know is that God knows my heart and at the core of my heart i just want to meet someone that i like and get excited over and for many years back it just so happened to be a lot of people from the same sex and it was beyond my control. sure people will say that you can control your actions and you do not have to act on your gay thoughts but if you dont like members of the same sex that means that you are supposedly to crawl in a hole somewhere and be alone. i'm not sure how happy of a life that would be. i wonder what it would feel like for the people that are telling you that you are going to hell to hear that they are going to hell for judging and casting judgement on others.

smile. i think ultimately we all have to develop our own relationship with God. I would suggest speaking to a Christian minister who is not just "gay friendly" but can help you uncover what the Bible really has to say or doesn't have to say about homosexuality.

 

Re: she still cares about me but she's not supportive of my decision to leave Courage

congrats! the way i think of it and i could be wrong, but living of lifetime of hiding, lying, ducking, crying at night and sometimes during the day, depression, cutting, alcoholism, self hating, self loathing, double lives....well i wonder if that's what God would want for you.....I dont think so. congrats on moving forward.