Gay/Lesbian culture??

I'm a few decades older than you and have been hearing about "gay culture" and the "gay community" for at least that many years. Believe me, neither exists and nor should it for the reason you provide. To define a culture or community purely on the basis of sexuality is an absurd notion.

Sexuality is important, but its only a small part of the richness of the human experience. Its that rich experience that works in aggregate to form our individual identities and collective cultures and communities. To single out sexuality as the defining attribute would be very sad indeed.

 

I definitely think there is such thing as gay culture... and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though. Yes, having it define you is bad but partaking into sometimes can be really liberating. I didn't think there really was one until I brought my straight friend to a dance sponsored by a local gay group and she felt really out of place and pointed out all the things that were different. It's hard to say there isn't a gay culture when there's pride parades, clubs, groups, bars, gsas, conferences, etc that all cater to lgbt individuals. If you've been to any of these you know that it's a different atmosphere for sure. It isn't a huge part of my life but I don't think that it is bad that it is part of my life

 

Yes, not being a stereotype and not letting your sexuality define you is all good. But. It doesn't mean one's sexual orientation doesn't matter, or that distinct "gay culture" is always a bad thing.

Let's say you're a huge fan of a not really obscure, but not quite popular TV show. As any nerd in good standing knows, simply asking random people if they're fans and then proceeding to re-tell the plot of its last episode with your analysis of that strange protrusion on Picard's phaser you can see right here, on this screencap is A Seriously Bad Idea.

So someone has a bright idea to just bring all the fans together somehow, exact means vary by technology available. And of course, when you bring a lot of people together in-jokes, jargon, traditions, controversies and politicking starts and spreads. Which is pretty much a culture. You may like the show but hate the fandom, but you still share a connection with it someone who never had seen an episode of it does not.

But that simple logistics is only part of it. Another, deeper reason was neatly put (by a straight guy) here:

There is straight culture. Tons and tons and tons of it. It's so ubiquitous we pretty much don't notice it, like fishes don't notice water. It's not just entertainment, it's pretty much everything we're supposed to do, whom to invite to a party, how to seat them at a table, whether it's appropriate to talk about something... It's all straight culture. The catch is, we're not straight. Some of the assumptions behind it simply won't work. Even if we'd all wear huge rainbow signs everywhere with straight people acting as if they don't see them, removing the logistics issue.

So, if straight peple have their own culture, and it doesn't "define" or "stereotypize" them... Why should gay culture do the same to us?

 

Good challenges.

I looked up some definitions of ‘culture’. This one seems about the best for this discussion:

“the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.”

So what of “gay/lesbian culture”?

I would agree that we are a “particular [minority] social group” in that we are gay/lesbian living in a hetero-normative society. This gives us a small set of shared experiences. The most powerful of these is exemplified in this forum – the need to ‘come out’, to empty the closet. This experience of ‘coming out’ seems to be confined to the LGBT social group.

So we certainly have some, very important and challenging, shared life experiences that are a direct result of our minority sexualities.

But what are our characteristic behaviours and beliefs?

Clearly we are, characteristically, attracted to people who are the same sex as us. And that we desire and treasure intimate relationships with partners of our own sex.
I would suggest that, characteristically, most of us believe that same-sex attraction is as natural and valid as opposite-sex attraction, and that the relationships that develop as a result of same-sex attraction are equally as valid.

But beyond that I am struggling not to stray into stereotypes. What other characteristic behaviours and beliefs can you mention that bind gay/lesbian people into a distinct culture?

Don’t get me wrong, these are important shared experiences and characteristics – clearly so since this forum is so active. But I would argue they do not naturally lead to there being a distinct gay/lesbian culture.

 

In a way yeah there is a gay culture. We tend to dress and act like the opposite sex though I personally choose not to.

 

I hear about this as well and it too sounds like some strange new land where everything is topsy-turvy and you won't understand it until you become part of it. I for one am constantly hearing that the "gay scene" is primarily about sex, being young, good-looking, partying your ass off.
So for those of us who aren't into random hookups, or aren't young or good-looking, and don't really "party" there seems to be little left. I have chosen to simply live my life the way I want and if someone thinks I'm less of a person for not participating in the "gay culture" then they can shove it. I've been judged enough already!

 

Malcstep:

Superbowl Sunday is part of American culture, but it would not be true to say that EVERY American watches football, or even that every American watches television.

Rap music, country line dancing, and skateboarding are all part of American culture too, but you would be pretty hard pressed to find very many people who are into all three--and I'm not into any of them.

Obviously, you can belong to a culture without taking part in every aspect of it. There are Japanese people who have never taken martial arts. This does not make them less Japanese, or mean that martial arts are not part of Japanese culture, and it certainly doesn't mean that there is no such thing as Japanese culture.

Presuming that ALL Japanese people know martial arts is stereotyping, but saying that martial arts are part of their culture is just the truth.

Likewise, it is not necessary for EVERY gay person to participate in something for it to be part of gay culture. I'm in a lesbian choir. I would say that it is definitely part of lesbian culture. But that doesn't mean that every lesbian everywhere is in a choir, or likes to sing, or even likes music at all. On the other hand, I don't personally have an interest in motorcycles, but I recognize Dykes on Bikes as part of lesbian culture as well.

Saying that all gay men like Barbara Streisand would be stereotyping. But saying that Barbara Streisand is a gay icon, or that she has a big following in the gay community, is just making an accurate observation about gay culture. What makes it stereotyping is the assumption that ALL gay men must like something that is part of gay culture.

What's more, you do not automatically join gay culture just by being gay--you only participate in gay culture to the extent that you are involved in the gay community. Being gay is innate, whereas culture is learned. You only become part of a culture through the process of enculturation, which can only begin once you are involved in the culture.

To refer to your examples, a young person is only a part of "youth culture" to the extent that the young person interacts with and takes part in that culture. One can use drugs without really being part of the "drug culture."

Becoming part of a culture entails joining a group and participating in it. If you don't do that, you are not a member of the culture, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.





TexaCali: You seem to have a very limited view of gay culture. Gay culture is more than the club scene, although for many people that is the entry into gay culture. Maybe you could look into whether there are other kinds of community activities for gay people in your area. If their aren't, there is probably a need for them, and you could always start something yourself.

The most important aspect of the community, in my opinion, is the circles of very close friendships, the "families of choice," as they are sometimes called. The whole gay community doesn't revolve around the dating scene.

Of course, gay culture subjects gay men to the same kind of pressure to be youthful and attractive forever that women are subjected to in the mainstream culture. Men just put a very high value on those attributes in people they think of as sexual objects. For both women and gay men, this results in the feeling that their self-worth is dependent on those attributes. Since you were raised as a boy in the mainstream culture, the feeling is new to you--you didn't grow up with it all the time the way that women did, so you aren't used to it the way we are. (Even as a lesbian, I have been enculturated since I was a little girl to equate my sexual attractiveness with my self-worth--it's part of the dominant culture. In becoming part of the lesbian community, I actually feel that pressure much less--not that lesbians don't care about sex appeal, but they don't put the same value on it that men often do.)

But, yeah, that pressure isn't really much different from what women feel all the time--from the whole culture, not just the gay community. I mean, you only feel that pressure from the gay community itself--I don't think you feel like the whole world values you less if you aren't as sexy, which is how it is for women.

(If it WAS the whole world, you wouldn't be able to avoid feeling like that by not participating in gay culture.)