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exploring

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by canadaguy987, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. canadaguy987

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    Hey,

    So I'm trying to approach this from the most positive open-minded angle I can which is proving harder than it sounds. I'm a 25 year old guy. Last time I posted here it was quite helpful so figured I'd try again to clear some things up for myself. The past year I've been questioning my sexuality and now I'm coming to terms with the fact that I've probably had thoughts like this before at random times but didn't make much of it. I guess where I stand right now I would label myself as bi-curious if a label was required. I remember when my friends and I would watch the OC (not often but ocassionally a buddy of mine was a big fan) I would think yeah the girls are alright on this show but the one guy is far better looking then the girl. I've had poor self-image for a while and so I'm not quite sure if these things are an attraction or more of a desire to be like them...Same thing happened when I watched across the universe and other shows. It mainly seems to stem from television...I never fantasized about being with a guy and freaquently fantasized about heterosexual relationships growing up. I wouldn't say my sexual experience with women has been the healthiest approach...almost all of it has occured after quite a few drinks and while I can get it up I seem to have issues finishing. I've always wanted to be in a relationship with a girl but have failed everytime. The past year I've had about 7 failed attempts at a relationship which I think has led to greater doubt about my sexuality. I've been doing a lot of reading online which seems to point me into two different directions, one direction says a lot of what I'm experiencing (panic, depression, worry) can be connected to anxiety about my sexuality and that based on the fact that I've never actually fantasized about being with a man and have always wanted to be with women says I'm more straight leaning. On the other side I'm reading constant stories that many gay man go through periods of denial, depression, anger, bargaining before accepting which also fits what I'm going through...I think I'd like to just know and move forward. I don't want to be one of these guys who decides they're gay at 40. Now I guess to be honest with myself, there are a lot of reasons I wouldn't want to be with a man. The first being that I just never thought of being involved sexually with one as being an exciting thing. I've always been more excited about being with a woman. From a biological stand point I've only gotten erections from women but that being said I've never been in a sexual situation with a man and the idea frankly scares me a bit. I don't want to do it an then regret the act. I find that when I clear my head and focus on something else for a while I generally feel much better and actually start feeling like you know what I'm straight don't worry about it, I enjoy women and things are fine but then something will trigger my worries again and I'll spiral into reading things online and so on. What do you guys think of all this? I know I just put a lot out there and appreciate any honest opinions.
     
  2. Jim1454

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    Hi there, and welcome back. What kind of advice did you get the first time you were here? I'm likely to tell you something you already know...

    I'd say that most straight people don't worry about being gay. It doesn't cross their mind. However, I'm not sure that's universally true. Some people tend to worry more than others, and that might be you.

    If you're not fantasizing about men. Not using gay porn when you masturbate. Don't like the idea of being physically intimate with a man or being in a relationship with one (the first usually preceeds the second) then maybe you're not gay or bi at all.

    On the flip side though, at 25 you've had a lot of conditioning from society that says 'you're likely straight and should be looking to settle down with a woman'. That can drive some pretty powerful denial. Because I AM one of those guys who didn't figure it out until I was (almost) 40. OK - I was 35. But getting up there.

    What one of the other advisors here will tell people is to just try 'gay' on for a couple of weeks. Don't commit to it. Don't decide that you're gay. But go about your life as if you were gay, and you were OK with it. See how that feels. Allow yourself to check out guys instead of girls. Use gay porn without reservation or guilt, and without worrying about it. Don't go away and read up about being gay and how you might be confused about it. Simply try it on and be OK with it for a couple of weeks. See how you feel.

    If at the end of 2 weeks you say to yourself "Gosh. I tried to be gay, but it just doesn't seem to fit. I'm still looking at the women and just can't get it up to gay porn." then you're probably not. But if instead you feel good about it, you stop worrying, and feel comfortable in your own skin, then maybe you're on to something.

    Not sure what else to suggest, other than to just hang out here and read more of the stories and experiences of others. Good luck!
     
  3. Aldrick

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    Hey Canadaguy987, maybe I can help you out a bit. :slight_smile:

    First of all, you don't need to worry about labels. Whether you're gay, straight, or bi - you're normal. Don't focus so much on labels, or the "What am I? What am I?" thoughts. They're irrelevant.

    Second, there is nothing gay about looking at a guy and thinking, "Oh wow, he's attractive. I wish I had his hair / perfect teeth / smile / etc." Guys do it all the time, it's just that society doesn't really approve of men admiring other men like that. However, straight women do it too.

    Third, you don't need to have sex with a man to know whether you're gay, straight, or bisexual. Nothing magical is going to happen - no light bulb is suddenly going to go off - no grand truth will be revealed. In fact, I'll be perfectly blunt, if you attempted you'd likely be so focused on "finding out" and being nervous, that you'd have trouble getting or sustaining an erection even if you turn out to be the gayest man alive.

    Fourth, being gay or bisexual really isn't about sex per-say. It's about romantic attraction. It's about falling in love. Yes, obviously, romantic relationships ultimately lead to sex, but gay relationships aren't based on sex. Think about it this way. Tons of gay men have had sex with women, especially in an attempt to pretend to be straight. Does that mean they're straight? Nope. Likewise, if a straight man were to have sex with another man (think of the situation in prisons), that wouldn't make him gay either. The reason being, simply put, that sexuality isn't about the sex - it's about the feelings and emotions attached to the relationship and the person you're having sex with.

    Fifth, I remember the first time I saw two men kiss. I had already kissed a boy, but I'd never actually SEEN two guys kissing. I never questioned my sexuality, I tried very hard to suppress it and deny it. So, there I was watching porn because I hadn't long gotten access to the internet, and there were two grown men physically making out. What do you think my response was?

    It is somewhat difficult to explain. It was a combination of disgust (two men do that?!), wonderment (two men can do that?!), and excitement (I totally want to do that!). Basically, I was dealing with a lot of internalized homophobia. I had always been told two men showing any sort of affection for one another was disgusting. Even guys hugging it was like; "Quick embrace, pat on the shoulder, quick release, take three steps back."

    So to go from that mindset to actually seeing guys full-on making out was a culture shock. There was never any doubt in my mind that I wanted the same thing, but I had never actually pictured what it would look like in my head.

    Now, after having seen it so much, it's like "Meh." Or "that's totally insanely hot."

    Six, although I'm not bisexual, I know bisexuality exists for some people in degrees. Some people who are bisexual might be 80 toward same sex / 20 toward opposite sex. Some people might be reversed of that, or some other combination. It's not often that I hear bisexual people say they're 50/50 toward both genders - though they do certainly exist. You could potentially be like 95% straight or something, with the occasional guy who is - as some people might say - "your exception."

    In the end it doesn't really matter. You are who you are. It's important that you don't get hung up on labels. I'm actually more concerned about your anxiety and depression. You really should seek help for that. I've been there, done that too, and therapy does help.

    We can talk about your issues finishing during sex, as well, if you'd like. It's actually not that uncommon, but that's a topic all unto itself. :icon_bigg

    Anyway, I hope I was able to help.
     
  4. canadaguy987

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    Thanks for your reponse. Yeah I guess it's weird to be questioning your sexuality which I guess is why I've labelled as bi-curious. There's obviously some conditioning in my understanding as with everyone. Growing up I didn't know anyone gay besides the GSA at high school. I guess I'm just very confused about why I find some men attractive, it's really too bad that sexuality is so complex. I remember I had similar panic after I hooked up with a girl I didn't really trust and was worried I could have gotten AIDS from her luckily though with AIDS there's a test, I just wish there was a gay test I guess...Just so I could know one way or the other. I wish I could get into a long term relationship with a girl have dated a bunch before but never anything serious and I feel like a longer relationship would really help me figure out where I stand. I don't know about trying to be gay for two weeks. I guess that makes sense but isn't something what I'm ready to do. I've looked at gay porn this month because I've been questioning and don't really know how I feel about it. It doesn't get me hard like straight porn does but who knows maybe I'm not allowing it to...can't believe how much my mind forces me to question myself and doubt my thoughts.

    ---------- Post added 25th Apr 2012 at 09:22 AM ----------

    PS I started seeing a therapist about two months ago. Unfortunately we kind of opened the book on this conversation and then she had to leave for a month so haven't seen her all that time...looking forward to talking to her again soon. About the finishing issue I've kind of calmed down about that because I've spoken with straight friends of mine who also say when they drink they can't finish...well some of them not all. So I think it can be common...just one more thing though has kind of led me to where I am now with my doubt. Thanks for your response I really appreciate it...I've spoken to a gay person I know about this and unfortunately I didn't quite feel like he was really looking out for me...he kind of just went if you're questioning it probably means your gay especially at 25 and while maybe he's right I think it's more complex for me than that and who knows where I end up in the future but for now that kind of finality wasn't helpful...so thank you for being more understanding.
     
  5. socalguitarguy

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    I don't know if I would agree with the gay guy you spoke to. Sure, for some people questioning might mean that they aren't straight. But you seem like you might have a little bit of an obsessive thinking problem, such as when you said "can't believe how much my mind forces me to question myself and doubt my thoughts." Such things can lead you to worry about things that aren't there. Another sentence that tipped me off: "then something will trigger my worries again and I'll spiral into reading things online and so on." I had a similar thing going on when I was experiencing some mild OCD-type symptoms. Something will cause you to "spike" and feel anxiety, then you compulsively do something (like reading things online) to try to make the anxiety go away.

    I've read about people having problems with "HOCD," which is basically a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder that involves a person obsessively ruminating about their sexuality and questioning whether they're really gay despite the fact that all evidence points to them being straight. Now, I'm not a doctor or a psychologist, but it's something to think about and maybe bring up with the therapist you're seeing to see what she thinks.

    Really, the only evidence I can find in what you have written that suggests "not straight" is the fact that you're questioning. Evidence for being straight, however, is more numerous (always was interested in girls, only get aroused by women, etc). So my gut instinct is that you're probably straight and just dealing with some anxiety issues.
     
  6. Chip

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    First, welcome to EC! This is a great place to discuss what's going on for you without having people push you in one direction or another; our agenda is simply to help.

    Second, you've gotten some great advice already from Jim and Aldrick. Basically, don't allow yourself to get all wrapped up, just take your time (which it sounds like you're doing) and perhaps consider the "try it on for size" approach, as that can often be one of the best ways to help you get clarity.

    Finally, lest you get confused, HOCD does not exist. It is an invention of the right-wing pray-the-gay-away types, is not a recognized diagnosis by anyone credible, and there's no credible research by reputable people to validate it's existence. So don't allow yourself to get distracted by that nonsense.
     
  7. NickD

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    I very much agree with all the advice here. And frankly it's uncanny how similar your story is to mine. I suffered from poor self image (still do to an extent) So I always compared myself to other guys. I wanted to look like them so bad so I could get that beautiful girl too. But then I'd realize, I was never really looking at the women they were seeing...

    I always was reading different things online on the subject as soon as the possibility of being gay entered my head, and I'd usually be able to calm myself down and realize I was straight. But the the attractions and head turning when I saw a hot guy just kept getting stronger. I really have only had 2 relationships with women, the first we became very emotionally attached, but doing anything sexual felt... wrong. The same thing happened with the second relationship.

    I admit it sounds like you have greater attraction to women than I ever had, but I also grew up a lot closer to the gay community (I was involved in theatre all the way through college) and I guess despite my straight persona, gay people never made me uncomfortable.

    The bottom line is, I think we all know who we are, but we have built up different walls and defenses based on our own familial, cultural, and societal perspectives. As such, it takes each of us varying degrees of time and thought to realize we are gay, straight, or anywhere in between. The mind is a powerful thing. The point is, you can't pull away from this discernment process but remain engaged in it, because I know that in my experience it sucked getting to where I am at now, but I could never imagine feeling happier or more liberated.

    PS I agree with Chip, HOCD is an invented condition. I think it's more the subconscious suppressing sexual attraction because of fear of rejection, and so it acts out in different ways, perceived HOCD being one of them.
     
  8. socalguitarguy

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    Guess this is an agree to disagree situation. I don't see the link between there being a lack of sufficient research and HOCD being an "invention" of pray-away-the-gay people. As it seemed we agreed upon on another thread, HOCD is not a separate disorder from OCD, merely a possible theme (of many possibilities) of the sufferer's obsessive worries.

    In any case forgive me for spreading "nonsense," that was not my intention.
     
  9. Chip

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    Two separate issues that aren't related.

    1. There's no credible research showing HOCD exists, and as far as I know, all of the reputable professional associations have, formally or informally, agreed that it's a bogus diagnosis.

    2. The religious crazies who are gay and don't want to admit it started putting forth HOCD as an "excuse" as to why they weren't really gay but instead suffered from this mysterious disorder.

    So no link, except that, as with many other such issues put forth by the Christian crazies and represented as credible, scientific "research", there's nothing credible to validate its existence, and the few studies where it is referenced are so poorly designed as to be worthless.