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Stasis and Doubt

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Sartoris, May 7, 2012.

  1. Sartoris

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    Sorry to post another thread, but within the last day or two I've been slipping back into uncertainty about myself, which sucks especially since for the last several before that [roughly around the time I returned to this site] I had felt quite calm and confident about my sexuality.

    What I hate about all this is that when I do feel confident about, that in itself helps me to feel more so, because it I feel okay with it, at least on some level. And I can look back at my more doubtful or confused moments, realizing that my mind is conjuring it's own 'dissent', so to speak. It's in those periods where I can't focus on just what it is that's bothering me exactly, my mind seems to veer from one thing to another as though distracting me from trying to come to full acceptance.

    Overall, I feel fairly sure I'd only feel truly happy being with another man, whereas I don't know whether I could be much with a woman but I never have, so how could I know? One of my more ridiculous fears is that since I do think women are attractive, I'll somehow sleepwalk into a relationship with one, since I don't feel especially for or against the idea. On top of that, other than coming out, I have made absolutely no progress in my life during the course of the past year or so. No job, no effort to look into continuing with school [in film, specifically;] and virtually no friends. While my mother's said that I'll start feeling better once I have a job, and I agree in part, I can't imagine that alone will magically change everything. I want to make real friends, not just 'high school' ones who seem nice enough but you don't have anything in common with, and meet other men and yet I can't, despite feeling so alone. I hate myself all the more because all I ever do is personally dwell on or occasionally talk about, more like complain, about how they're bothering me without actually doing anything about them.

    Because of all this, sometimes I feel the doubt is partly doubted in my personal insecurities. While I can imagine being with another man, I can't see how that will happen. How one could fall for me or that I will fall for another. And I'm tired of finding women attractive when, at least at the moment, I don't know whether I'm as interested in them as much as men.

    I'm aware it's common to feel this type of uncertainty, but I'm just wondering how long it will last, whether it will go away? I feel like a Kinsey 5, so is it to be expected to have these periods of confusion until I have accepted myself?
     
  2. Lad123

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    Here have a (*hug*) from me, I think you need one ^^

    When I read "While I can imagine being with another man, I can't see how that will happen. How one could fall for me or that I will fall for another" it really struck a chord with how I feel everyday. I may not be dwelling on the added pressure of being a kinsey 5 since I know I am gay so I can only relate to you in having such insecurities. Its like ok I'm gay, now what? Who will want to date me? :lol:

    You said you haven't been in a relationship with women so that is why you are questioning whether you prefer to be in a relationship with guys. Well, how about trying it for a while? If its not for you then at least you will know for sure, although in my opinion, you don't need to experience a relationship to tell who you prefer. However I guess this is different for bisexuals?
     
  3. Sartoris

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    Thanks. :slight_smile:

    Actually, it's not that since I haven't been in a relationship with a woman that I think I would prefer to be with a man but that since I haven't how can I be so sure I wouldn't like it? My reclusiveness aside, trying to date women wouldn't be a bad idea if I felt more bisexual but I don't feel particularly compelled to date women, and looking back I've wondered if I truly ever did [compared to my peers,] my concern is that I'm just ruling women out too quickly, if that makes sense?

    But I really would like to meet other men, even if it didn't result in a date, though I'm still apprehensive about doing so and unsure where I'll go to do so.
     
  4. Farouche

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    I don't think there's any need to worry that you're ruling out women too quickly. If you happen to come across a particularly fantastic woman, you might want to date her, or you might not, but you can cross that bridge when you come to it. In the meanwhile you say you prefer men, so roll with that.

    As for meeting gay guys, look for people who share your hobbies and interests and spend time with them. The idea is to make some new friends, and if one of them happens to be a gay guy who is willing to date you, that's an added bonus.
     
  5. Sartoris

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    Thanks for replying. :slight_smile:

    I'm actually feeling more calm today, though how long it will last I'm not sure. What gets to me from time to time, I guess, is that since I haven't actually fallen for another man yet, I sometimes wonder if the fact I can find both men and women attractive overrules the fact I've a great desire to be with a man but can't feel the same about being with a woman, regardless of how attractive certain ones may be. As mentioned, I feel happy feeling that I'm gay, or mostly gay (Haha,) but miserable when swarmed with doubt. In a way, it seems so obvious so I don't know why it is I just don't remain in the former state of mind.

    That is something I need to do, though it'll be difficult since I'm not in school anymore, at the moment, and am painfully shy when meeting new people [something I hope to change.] My concern is that it would be unlikely to meet other people, specifically men, with similar interests and who happen to be gay or bisexual around here. It would seem easier to go to LGBT-specific venues to meet others, but I don't really know of any. Want to avoid bars, at least on my own, and the only local center I know of seems to be a small organization mainly devoted to setting up a yearly parade and nothing else.

    Wish I'd come to this realization while I was in college, at least there would've been a club. (Sigh.) :\
     
  6. Sartoris

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    Was just thinking about something a little while ago. I'd realized that while I still feel more or less confused occasionally, the impact of these thoughts seem to have changed. Not angst-ridden as I remember having been months ago, but, when it happens now, I would describe myself as, overall, feeling 'sad' rather than frustrated.

    Though my circumstances or actions haven't changed drastically, I've been wondering, is this a sign of anything?
     
  7. BudderMC

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    Depends, why are you feeling sad? Something is triggering it. It could very well just be struggling and confusion, but that doesn't seem to match up.

    Although by the "5 stages of grief" model that follows denial -> anger -> bargaining -> depression -> acceptance (I think), it means you might be hitting a different stage of accepting yourself. Which is great! Though keep in mind, it isn't a one-way street; people can flip-flop for long periods of time.

    Honestly, I think so long as you're talking out what you're feeling and not bottling it up, you're probably well on your way. :slight_smile:
     
  8. Sartoris

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    Well on the one hand, have been upset that I can't really talk about things outside of the internet. Out to my mother, but don't feel I can talk with her about how confused and lonely I feel at times, partly because there are other things I know need to work on at the moment, and haven't, as well. And there isn't anyone else in real life I can currently speak to and have been wondering how to reach out with the very limited resources at my disposal.

    Primarily though, think I've been feeling sad by questioning what am I going to do to meet other men and when, whether one could love me and, more recently, whether I can love another. It gets mixed in with me rethinking how I feel about both sexes. That I feel I've never truly loved anyone. That I know there are both men and women I find attractive, but imagine being very happy with the former and very indifferent about being with the latter. That while I feel I prefer men and am more interested in them physically, when I'm in public my reactions to men don't seem vastly different than to women [that I don't go 'boy crazy' or something.] In other words, I suppose, [not in a stereotypical sense] I'll feel gay but don't feel gay at the same time.
     
  9. thylvin

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    First of all let me tell you this. With all your insecurities, why not move the dating part or love part to the back of your mind. Forget about it for a while. Concentrate on your future and what you want to do with it. The love part, usually comes un-expectantly.

    For me, I never even dated a single person in school neither have I in the 10 years since school. But then suddenly love hits you like a run-away train and leave you breathless. Believe me, it happened to me!
     
  10. Sartoris

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    The thing about the 'relax and take life as it comes' advice is if I'm not even meeting other LGBT people in general, how could I meet another man? While I would, hopefully, be making progress in other areas of my life, I don't imagine that I'll just happen to meet a guy, let alone one who's into me. There's this irrational thought I have that if I just let things go, I'd be more likely to meet a woman and not feeling strongly one way or the other about that sort of relationship, will go into it just so I'm not alone. Then again, I suppose it's ridiculous to think that since I imagine there would need to be not only desire for but effort made in order to make such a thing possible. (Ugh.) I'm messed up. :eusa_doh:

    In any case, I believe you're right that I need to stop thinking about this so much. Seems that whenever I do so I just get confused and feel a bit depressed. It'll be difficult to put things out of my mind for a bit since I seem to have been thinking about it almost non-stop for a very long time now. Just hope you're right, 'cause I feel I know what sort of relationship I want and that all this worry is more or less ungrounded, but feel I may not be able to have it by taking things easy.
     
    #10 Sartoris, May 14, 2012
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  11. thylvin

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    I understand completely. At 25, I knew what I wanted, how I wanted our lives to be, things that we'll do together and I mean I know exactly what I wanted. Still I felt like you, Who would ever want me? Who would love me? When will love come? Does love exist? All sorts of questions came over time. And that's what made me even more insecure about myself. I'm an introvert. Face to face I wouldn't be able to get out 2 words when I meet someone the first time. It takes allot for me. After meeting the same someone for several times, do I really start to interact.

    Love found me at 29, walking on the highway out of the city centre (my bike was broken back then) in the middle of the cold winter night. If I kept my stubbornness and unwilling to ride with a total stranger I probably would have still stayed single.
     
  12. Sartoris

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    Yes, I'm very introverted too [as if that wasn't obvious.] :confused: It's very difficult to connect with others I don't know well, so I've slowly withdrawn from life, more-or-less. Suppose that's why I feel so insecure and question myself alot, because it's at the point where it's hard to imagine actually meeting that special someone despite having the desire.

    I'm glad to hear you overcame your reservations and have met someone. :slight_smile: I imagine that must've been somewhat nervewracking [don't know if I'd ever let a stranger give me a ride.] :lol: Hope I can branch out and meet people more easily, as well as stop overthinking insignificant details. Perhaps the latter will make it easier to think clearly about what I can do to move forward in this regard.
     
  13. thylvin

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    Do you know of Murphy's Law? The thing you looking for and need it the most you'll not find. Other things yes. Once you stop looking for it, you'll find it.
     
  14. Sartoris

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    But I thought Murphy's Law was: the worst that can happen will happen? :lol:
     
  15. Sartoris

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    Ok, I haven't been able to completely take my mind off the general issue, but lately I've been somewhat more at ease and trying to put my thinking to more constructive use. In doing so, I've gone over my concerns and figured I should list them out specifically in order to put them in perspective [some of this is repetitive and I apologize for that]:

    - Taking into account both media and real life, I would say I find both men and women attractive but each for different, somewhat hard to describe, reasons. As far as women, I think to some extent it's conditioning, because a woman I might not find especially attractive may still catch my attention and seem 'pretty' via a hairstyle or the way she's dressed.
    - Since I began considering the possibility I was gay, in the basic sense of what that means and not an attempt to cling to a 'label', rather than bisexual, I think I've actually been focusing more on when I take note of a woman compared to when I thought I may be bisexual, or even straight.
    - More or less when it comes to men, I think it just sort of comes down to men I find attractive and those I don't. With women, it feels like that aside those I don't find attractive, the rest are ones I just find 'pretty' or stereotypically 'hot' [relating to the first point about conditioning,] and even those I find particularly beautiful [not just physically, but something in their demeanor or how they carry themselves] but can't imagine sleeping with them.
    - Despite not having done anything, I'm definitely into gay sex and while I might be open to giving straight sex 'the old college try', I seriously doubt how much I'd enjoy it. Don't desire it, certainly hard to imagine being in a long-term relationship in that regard, at the most I've just gotten turned on by straight porn [again, where the girls just seem kinda 'pretty' or 'sexy' and not much else] which I've generally lost interest in though I occasionally like(d) watching certain girls. So it may just be physical, rather than sexual, attraction.
    - Even when I doubt myself, I don't have less of an urge to be with a man or have a long-term relationship with one, and I don't have a greater one to be with a woman or in a long-term relationship with a woman. It seems to be that I'll notice a woman and think, "Hmm. She seems (kinda) attractive, does this mean I'm repressing a desire to be with a woman?" In writing, seems kinda stupid. In my head, it feels logical.
    - Not sure, but thinking perhaps since I never really had any close female friends that has made me all the more confused about women because I've had limited experience aside from general school or public experiences and relatives. And since I haven't and don't know any gay people, in person, it may make it harder to really feel attracted to a guy when for all you know he may be straight.

    Feels like when I allow myself some distance to put all the elements in perspective, it makes more sense. I know there are moments when I do feel fine, that I know I like guys and that girls are attractive but I'm just not that into them, and it makes me feel more secure. I believe I can be fine with identifying as or with being gay, just hoping that these feelings will be strengthened and the doubt disappear once I start branching out my life; socialize more, meet people and make friends.

    If anyone has actually read through all that, and to anyone who's put up with my obsessive whining all this time, thank you for your time and patience. :slight_smile:
     
  16. socalguitarguy

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    Hey man, I totally get what you're going through. I told my dad I'm dating guys yesterday, and his main concern was that I hadn't tried dating girls enough to know for sure it wasn't for me. However, I never really had all that much innate desire to date women, whereas dating guys has been quite fun and exciting. I actually felt enthsusiastic about dating for the first time ever. It's definitely a process, figuring yourself out.
     
  17. ThatCoopKid

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    Hey Josh, I'm Brandon. First and foremost, I wanted to say this - YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I'm in the exact same boat you are at the moment, and I'm not sure which way is up sexuality wise. I can look at a girl, think she's smokin, and then do the same thing a few minutes later with a guy. And while I can see myself with a guy in a long term relationship, I'm beginning to think that it'll never happen for the same reasons you feel that it wouldn't work for you.

    As far as advice, well, all I have is this. Learning who you are sexually isn't just something that's going to happen overnight. It's going to take time, and you've got time. Just go at it day by day. Worrying about it is just going to stress you out and add more to your plate daily. And if you ever wanna talk or anything, feel free to shoot me a wall post or a message. I'm always open and willing to listen and help if I can :slight_smile:
     
  18. Ianthe

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    There is a difference between being able to recognize that someone is attractive, and being attracted to that person.

    I think that you can recognize attractiveness in both sexes, but you seem to only be attracted to men, just from what you are saying.

    I don't know if that helps.
     
  19. Sartoris

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    social: While I haven't had the opportunity to date guys, I imagine I would feel very much the same. Part of the reason it was awhile before I even considered I was gay was that while I didn't have the same 'urge?' to have a girlfriend when I was in grade school, I still thought girls were pretty and was looking at stuff with them online [and yet guys as well, hmm . . . (Haha,)] so guess I figured it was an, 'It'll happen eventually' thing.

    Coop: Thanks for the offer Brandon, though I see that you've been banned since I last checked the site but I'll reply here anyway.

    I'm definitely aware of that and at this point, I'm not trying to rush things yet still working on getting myself comfortable. I feel I can reach a point where I'm completely comfortable and happy with my sexuality, though I'd be lying if I said there weren't moments, however brief, where I didn't sometimes feel a bit odd, whether thinking of myself as openly gay, or through my mother's perspective of having a gay son, my lack of dating experience and trying to find the places to meet others and etc. etc. But I know all this be overcome in due time and I just have to keep my mind clear and focused to avoid unnecessary doubt.

    Ianthe: Yes, it does a little. That's more or less what I've been trying to appreciate recently, specifically that I do find both physically attractive, but that I really only feel sexually attracted to men [not that women aren't sexy of course and whatnot, but just don't think they're for me.] Honestly, until not too long ago, I assumed they were both one and the same and it had/has been one of the toughest things to wrap my head around.
     
  20. Sartoris

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    Sorry to make another long post, it's not like I'm stressed out or anything but felt that even if no one responded it would be best to get this out of my head:

    Lately, as in the last week or two I believe, while nothing has drastically changed in my life, to some extent I think I may be progressing in my sense of self, though I'm not sure. In the time since I made that long post above, the questioning and related thoughts still hover in my head, but in a more 'diluted?' way. The impact is even weaker and often feels more like passing thoughts. At the very least, I know I'm attracted to men.

    Another thing is that I've been trying to cut back on watching porn videos, which I've done pretty frequently being at home alot, though to varying degrees of success so far but I assume it would take time to cut down on a long-time habit. However, I think part of the reason the doubt has subsided considerably, if not altogether yet, is keeping sight of the fact 99% of those videos were gay-orientented and that I really enjoyed watching them. As well as that I still find myself looking at pictures and tumblrs of hot guys here and there, that when I try to fantasize my thoughts are of men [sometimes I consciously think about being with a woman, in order to test myself I guess, but it seems difficult to summon the same interest.] While I have trouble relying on fantasizing, realizing this is helping to appreciate that it's men, not women, that turn me on.

    'Cause while I'm not exactly sure how straight or bisexual men generally feel about women, I don't think it's the same as I think of them and imagine there would have to be more than my finding them attractive in an overall way, to desire them and not feel, "They're beautiful, sometimes especially so, but in real life I don't think they do anything for me" in order to consider myself interested in women. Then, part of the reason I think I still doubt is I don't feel a radical difference when I see guys I find attractive as opposed to girls. Not sure how to describe it, it's just that while there's something about good-looking men I love and with the women there's something very noticable about them, my mind doesn't seem to send me some reassuring sense that,"YOU'RE INTO GUYS." If that makes sense?

    The thing is I only began questioning myself seriously after I finished two years of college when I pretty much withdrew from life. So even if I get moments where I feel assured in my sense of self, as I do even as I write this, I wonder whether this will carry over into real life when I become more socially active and involved, that these feelings I know I have for men will only be strengthened. That I'll feel more 'gay'. [Again, not in a stereotypical or 'labeling' way but the basic meaning of that phrase.]

    Has anyone else experienced similar concerns? That you felt or were pretty sure you were more attracted to the same-sex but being a 'loner' didn't know if those feelings would hold up in real life? Or something to that effect. :\