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Being Born Gay

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by TroubledRyan, Jun 5, 2012.

?

Have you had eithere three?

  1. I have been abandoned

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  2. I was sexually molested

    6 vote(s)
    4.5%
  3. I grew up without a father figure

    11 vote(s)
    8.3%
  4. A combination of two or all three

    4 vote(s)
    3.0%
  5. None of these have happened to me

    110 vote(s)
    83.3%
  1. TroubledRyan

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    This is directed towards gay men.

    I was speaking with someone about being gay. First off I would like to say this man is a Christian counclor. He is also a very close friend to my mom. I decided I would talk with him about it, seeing as I really have no problem with that. This was not against my will.

    So as we were speaking, we talked about a 30 year longitudinal study that was done to try to see how the idea of being gay is caused. What the study produced was most, not all, gay people at some point in there life were either:
    1. Abandoned.
    2. Sexually molested. (That incudes experimenting)
    3. Grew up without a father figure (being a male role model).
    (These may be off a bit).

    The study said that most gay people had at least one of these. I for one have had all three as a child. Though they really mean nothing to me now, I can see how they can have played a role in my life. I also know it actually hurts alot to try to dig into my past, because my own mind tries to hide alot of it.

    So seeing as I have had all three, I was curious about other gay people here. Because in all honesty, I do not feel 'right' with myself right now. At the same time I could never see myself with a woman - but I would rather not get into that.

    So have you had either three of those, or were you one of the few that havent?
     
    #1 TroubledRyan, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  2. Mike92

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    Well, even though I consider myself bisexual (right now I'm leaning more towards guys), none of those three apply to me at all...
     
  3. TroubledRyan

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    I'm not completly sure if this relates to Bi-men. I suppose it would for the most part. But experimenting was also a variable not included in this. These three things do not include those that are just experimenting. Which is a big thing with our generation.
     
  4. Mike92

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    I'm not sure what you mean by ''experimenting'', though.

    If you mean physically, I've never been with a guy, nor have I been in a relationship with one at all. I just know that I am attracted to them.
     
  5. TroubledRyan

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    I did mean physically. If you havent experimented then i guess my comment that you have quoted does not pertain to you. But it wasn't just towards you. I meant that in general for everyone reading.

    Just wanting to see what everyone votes, so all honest answer are welcomed :slight_smile:.
     
  6. sguyc

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    None of these apply to me. I have a loving family and my dad's a great and accepting guy, albeit a little oldfasioned at times. I think there could definitely be a correlation with those events (at least some of them) and homosexuality however. More research will probably have to be done.
     
  7. Well, I grew up without a father figure. Sort of. He was present in my life, but he was not a part of it. Our relationship was either rocky or non-existent. But, now after he and my mother separated and went through all that turmoil, few years passed by. He's now a part of me and my mother's life. Still separated, but remain on a mutual understanding that it can't work between them, so they remain friends. And, he acts like a father figure now.

    But, I've heard of studies like this before. It's interesting to think about, but I don't think these are determining factors at all. They might cause some sort psychological issues, but not to the point where they made you gay.

    It'd be interesting to see a correlation though on:

    Kids who grew up with 2 mothers (Growing up without a father figure) or 2 fathers
    Kids who were sexually molested (Generally it's men, so if the offender was a woman?)
    And at what age they were abandoned.


    I know what you're getting at though. But, I dunno. Like I said, my father was present, but in no way a role-model. But, I've known I was gay since I was about 7 or 8. Didn't know exactly what it was at the time, but I knew. I mean I was so far in the closet even at that age, when kids in elementary would make those dumb jokes "You're a homo-sapien", all I heard was homo (knew what that word meant, and the stigma attached to that but not the latter), and I'd just deny it "NO I'M NOT!!!" Haha. And then once I got to junior high, the feelings and attractions to men became much clearer, but repressed them all throughout and into high school.

    So, I do believe your born gay. And, ok. Say your not. Does it still even have to matter who you decide to love, have sex with? It's your life.
     
  8. RealityCheck

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    None of these happened to me. I would say that my childhood may not have been necessarily normal, but the environment was always loving. Of course, the didn't know that I was gay at the time, so that never factored into their views of me. I will also add that it never took a sexual experience to realize I was gay. It took a while for me to accept it fully, but deep down I always new. I pictured myself with women for many years. Never could I view them in an intimate manner. Still I would see the picket fence everyone talks about with the woman and the children in the yard. Didn't make a difference in the end.
     
  9. Chip

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    No offense to your friend, but this is straight out of the ignorant playbook of the Christian "reparative therapy" people. It has been very widely disproved for a whole bunch of reasons. I want to be clear I'm not disrespecting you in any way, but quite frankly this sort of bullshit makes my blood boil, because the people who are putting it out KNOW it is bullshit, but use it anyway.

    First, the dumbasses who put this out are counting on the idea that people don't know the difference between correlation and causation. Simplest example: "More people die in hospitals than anywhere else in the world." That's a correlation. An incorrect causal inference would be "Therefore, hospitals are very dangerous places to be, don't ever go to one or you'll die."

    All of the things he's stating are correlations. There is NO data showing any causal relationship between those factors and being gay.

    Separately, on the "sexually abused" point, experimentation and sex play (if you're talking about "playing doctor" and such) is a normal part of childhood that most kids, straight and gay, experince. And sexual experimentation in the teen years does not automatically count as abusive, contrary to the ignorant Christians. It's way more nuanced than that, and depends on the balance of power in the experimentation. If all teens that had sexually experimented with the same sex were gay, that would be something like 45% of all adults under 30. Again, complete bullshit.

    Second, if being abandoned and raised without a father caused people to be gay then something like 72% of African-American men under 30 and 25% of white men under 30 in the US would be gay. If being sexually abused caused men to be gay, approximately 17% of *all* men in the US would be gay. So the most quick-and-dirty, surface analysis of these fraudulent representations show that they are obviously false.

    What makes me the most angry about this is, at least some of the Christian counselors and people at the top of the food chain are not completely stupid and know all of the above facts. They are simply lying their asses off to the rest of the food chain (such as your friend) and representing this stuff as fact, or conveniently omitting that correlation and causation aren't the same, or any of the very obvious data that immediately refutes their hypotheses.

    By the way, if I remember that study in particular, it was horribly flawed and I believe the researchers had a strong bias that they were seeking a particular outcome. This is why ALL of the credible counseling/psychology/psychiatry/social work organizations have soundly rejected the notion that sexual orientation can be changed; there is ZERO credible data supporting that notion.

    For the record, there are multiple studies showing that a very large percentage of gay men have fantastic relationships with their fathers, have never been abandoned, have never been sexually abused, and grew up in a normal, well adjusted two-parent heterosexual home. Again, something the dumbass Christian people with an agenda completely ignore.
     
  10. Chip

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    There have been studies on this. No increase in homosexuality among children of same-sex couples over the normal percentage found in heterosexual couples. Unsurprisingly, those that are lesbian or gay and raised in same-sex households are somewhat better adjusted because they grow up with less stigma about being gay.

    Studies here too, though most of them are pretty flawed. There's definitely a higher percentage of abuse survivors who are gay, but again, this is correlative not causative according to the best data we currently have. It appears that abused children are more likely to confront and deal with their sexual orientation issues much earlier in life than their non-abused counterparts, and it is also clear from other research that it is much more difficult for straight men to admit being sexually abused as children than it is for gay men (this is a shame issue), so the best current theory is that there is a large underreporting problem that's unnaturally skewing the data.
     
  11. dc101

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    none of these apply to me either. However when my mum was pregnant she wanted a girl so i've always wondered if there's some kind of psychological connection during pregnancy between mother and baby that could make someone gay. Has anyone else ever thought that or had a parent expecting the opposite gender? Sorry if that sounds confusing but hopefully someone will understand what i mean.
     
  12. Gerry

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    The only one that would apply to me is that I've mostly grown up without a father figure in my life and have relied on my mom for everything. I don't think this has anything at all to do with the fact that I'm gay though.
     
  13. Lewis

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    I had none of those things happens to me, although I had a slightly closer relationship with my mum as a child, me and my dad didn't really communicate much. I don't think that caused me to be gay, but maybe think me being born gay therefore led to me being close with my mum. I definitely think I was born gay because it's something that is embedded within me, it's not something I can just turn off. I also remembering noticing my sexuality at a very very early age.
     
  14. Ben

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    Do you have information on who headed this study, what it's titled and where (/whether) it's been published?
     
  15. Just Passing

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    None of these apply to me whatsoever, so I'm gay without a real cause. I suppose I was a bit of a mother's boy as child, but that's about it.
     
  16. Filip

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    None of the above for me. My dad passed away when I was 21, but I was already well and truly gay by that age.
    But otherwise, I never had one instance of abuse, abandonment or any other disturbance of a happy childhood.

    Plus, my brother had exactly the same, was younger than I was when our dad passed away, but after being exposed to the exact same set of stimuli, turned out to be straight.

    Which, by the way, does fly in the face of this study. If abaondonment, neglect or abuse would be strongly correlated with being gay, then entire batches of siblings would end up gay. after all, siblings are usually exposed to very similar influences. Yet, in practice, it is usually only one or a few who turns out gay.

    I do think the wording (especially the bold part) is interesting:
    This does identify it as influenced by the "ex-gay" or "homosexuality is just a lifestyle" lobby. Those tend to not speak of homosexuality as something that's real, but as "an idea that you can get rid of". Something that occludes your true sexuality, which they assert is heterosexual for a full 100% of people.


    Still, I would be interested in seeing if and where it is published!
     
  17. sanguine

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    i am so grateful ive never had any of those options happen to me, i cant imagine nor do i want to know what its like to go through any of those options.

    my sympathy for those who have had one or more of those in their life
     
  18. Nykoru

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    Well, I have two older sisters and my parents were both really hoping for a boy the third time around - and they *kind of* got it XD They've just spent twenty years thinking they haven't...
     
  19. Papagoose

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    I don't really think any of these apply to me (though I really don't know quite how to classify myself yet).

    I don't know if this counts as a form of abandonment, but I had both of my parents until I was 18, when I abruptly found myself partially separated from them when my mother gave up 15 years of sobriety and my father went to prison.
     
  20. DanA

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    I had the most normal, average growing up experience in the world. Yearly family vacations, trips to zoos and museums often, proper encouragement in terms of school, etc..

    Nothing bad ever happened to me. I've led a very charmed life that I am thankful everyday for.

    Now, what drove me deep into the closet was the anti-gay climate and slurs I heard everyday. Every once in a while from my parents (like, I can seriously think of maybe five incidences total over the past 24 years, but all of them stuck with me) and all the time at school. All the time. I do not envy out teenagers back then or today. I mean, it affected me to the point that I attempted suicide, I can't imagine if you're the target of all that anti-gay taunting and abuse.