I questioned my grandmother on some verses in the bible today. Leviticus 18:22 - If a man is to have sexual relations with another man; God hates that. Leviticus 20:13 - If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death. So she starts off as startled that I would question the word of the Lord our God (she is a very strong Catholic). She then proceeds to ask what I think of it, and so instead of coming out I say "I believe a man should be able to love another if that is what he feels". She actually seemed relieved that I didn't say I myself feel that way. So she the asks me what the anus is for. "Excretes..." is my only reply. She continues to tell me that the sperm can damage the sphincter and that you can get STIs. She instantly says that Oral sex is "predominantly gay" and that it is also wrong. She says that she has always detested same gender relations as it is unhealthy for your body. This is her way of saying it is unnatural. My problem is if I confess my feelings to my mother she will want me to tell my whole family. And after this discussion about what the bible says that I have had with my grandmother, I know that she will not be happy. What can I do?
First of all, that sounds like an extremely awkward conversation to have with your grandmother, haha. Does your mom understand what your grandmother is like? I'm sure if she thinks that telling your grandmother would ruin a relationship then she wouldn't tell her. And if she doesn't realize this she would probably listen to her if you asked her not to tell your grandmother. That's what I think, unless you don't think your mother would keep your secret, in which case I don't think she's the best person to tell, until you're financially independent. Is your mother very religious as well?
Well how close are you to your grandmother? If she's not someone you have to interact with all the time I wouldn't tell her. I know it sucks to hide such a large part of who you are but you want to keep a good relationship with her. My nana is homophobic and I have no intention of telling her because I know I wouldn't be able to even talk to her with out her saying how I'm going to hell and how she's always liked my sister more and blah blah blah. Is it possible to tell the rest of your family minus your grandmother, or do they feel similarly? I'm sure other people will have more experience to help you.
Oh oops I missed the part about your mother... that complicates things. Is there any way you can persuade you mother not to tell?
Thank you for the quick response. My mother believes that if there is an afterlife, good, she hopes it is enjoyable, if not, oh well, at least this one was satisfactory. She has no religion at all, but she would want all to know. She believes everyone would need to know, and if I do not tell her I know that she definitely will. No matter what I say, she will never lie to her own mother, that much I know. ---------- Post added 6th Jul 2012 at 12:40 PM ---------- Also my grandparents have been their my whole life, living 6 blocks away, paying for my music lessons, buying me my first guitar, my first bike, my first clarinet. My grandfather is equally religious and I go bike riding with him 5 days a week at minimum. My brother is also a homophobe, stealing things from them, getting drunk and beating them. So immediate family only has one trusting person, my mother.
I understand how you feel my grandparents where the same. But sometimes when they realize one of there own is an LGBT they begin to accept it, for some odd reason.
Wow, oral sex is "predominately gay?" Haha, not true; I hear women talk about bj's all the time! And I must say, I feel really bad that you had to have this conversation with your grandmother. It must have been so awkward!! To mock what SkyDiver said, there are many other things in the Bible that it says are sinful, yet we do them everyday. Have you had any shellfish lately? Or worn any mixed fabrics? Then you're an abomination and going to hell . I'm also Catholic, but I don't take everything the Bible says in a literal context. Just remember: Jesus told us to love everybody, and said nothing about homosexuals.
I do not think there is any way of telling my grandmother that those verses were metaphors, because, lets face it, they weren't. They literally say it is wrong for a guy to have sex with another guy. What makes me more sad is the fact the bible never mentions a woman being with a woman being an abomination. Why is this? Why is it that it seems God's word says lesbianism is fine, but not its male counterpart? This is the most hurting part about these verses to me. ---------- Post added 6th Jul 2012 at 02:24 PM ---------- I just realized that that could be taken the wrong way. I did not mean to say that lesbianism is bad if that is the way that you had taken it, I meant two things. 1. Why are females still given everything that some Christian folk give them when in never mentions once that that behavior is wrong? 2. Why is it that this almighty character (I am not denying his existence, I am questioning his teachings) has decided that no man was to sleep with man, and that women need not be mentioned. Did Leviticus choose to leave something out? Or is this 'God' person really that seedy?
They weren't metaphors, but they were written in context for a different time in culture and also have been translated many times, with some phrases likely translated slightly differently to meet certain agendas. The original meaning of the abominations in Levictus was to state things that were not practiced commonly among Jews, mainly things practiced by the Romans, and ment abominable in a ritual rather than ethical sense. the abominations were basically a way of saying here is how we are going to differentiate ourselves from the Gentiles. The most likely reason that women weren't mentioned was that the societies back then were very patriarchal and women were treated almost like property and their behaviors were of less concern. No book should be taken completely literally, especially not one that is thousands of years old, written for a different culture and likely had liberties taken with it's numerous translations. Besides the word homosexuality was not coined until the nineteenth century and was subsequently added to the Bible.
---------- Post added 5th Jul 2012 at 10:41 PM ---------- Oh, and Rudithic, this might help you. It helped me. You also might want to consider showing it to your grandma. I've shown it to several Christian friends who are still unsure of the Bible's take on homosexuality and it has definately made them think on a much deeper level. Soulforce » What the Bible Says–and Doesn’t Say–About Homosexuality
I don't think that it's supposed to be a metaphor, either. I think that the person that wrote it meant what they said. Just like they meant the whole no shellfish and mixed clothes that I mentioned earlier. Honestly, two women being together was probably unheard of back then. Women weren't seen as equals, so they probably never even thought of two women being together. I believe that the New Testament pretty much updates and gets rid of some of those crazy laws that are in the Old Testament. And I want to clarify what I meant when I said I don't take everything in a literal context. To give an example: I don't believe that there were actually two people named Adam and Eve, and that they ate a forbidden fruit and got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. I believe that it's a metaphor to show that at one time people walked alongside God. But when man committed original sin, they were separated from God.
Gran's lovely continuation of the talk we had, she decided to say that "Homosexuals are like Pedophiles" because of the fact that "It isn't natural for men to have intercourse" apparently matches the fact that it is "wrong for people to have sex with kids". This has basically ruined my day completely for me. I don't know if it is worse that she detests them, or that she decided to actually compare the two categories. I really think she has gone much too far.
Presuming that you are right that your mother will insist on telling everyone immediately (which i don't actually think is very likely), your options are limited. You can either wait to tell her until you are ready for everyone to know, or you can tell her and accept that she is going to tell people. Unless you actually have a boyfriend, though, what you are telling her about is only your private feelings, and not something that would need to be public knowledge. Maybe your mother would be able to keep something private that was clearly private. What you would have to do is approach her from that angle. Tell her that you want to talk to her about some personal things, but you need to know that the conversation will be private. Approach the whole thing like you are sharing something intimate with her (which is true). For this purpose, rather than immediately making a declarative statement about your sexuality, it might be better to just talk to her about crushes you've had on guys, or things like that. (Probably best not to get too graphic.) And also tell her about the conversation you had with your grandmother, and how afraid you are. But when you go to talk to her, you want to ask explicitly if you can talk to her about your feelings and have her keep it private between you two. Relationships are more or less considered public, while feelings are private. See if you can get her to agree that your feelings are private information, at least until you start dating. ---------- Post added 5th Jul 2012 at 11:53 PM ---------- Your grandma suspects on some level that you might be gay, but she thinks that you can be persuaded away from it or something. That's why she's going the "gay=pedophile" route. Point out to her that, unlike gay men, pedophiles have victims.
SkyDiver, I looked at the site, if things start to get heavy and she does tell me that she knows why I have been speaking to her about it I will show her. But right now I am just trying to find a way of speaking to mum about it. Even if she wouldn't want the family to know, my brother is always at home, and there is nothing that can stay private without him eventually finding out. Knowing my brother he will definitely tell everyone he knows about my sexuality, because he hates me, and has done it to me so many times. ---------- Post added 6th Jul 2012 at 05:35 PM ---------- Ianthe, are you perfectly sure that she would suspect, or could she just be making precautions? How can I tell if she truly does suspect it.
She doesn't know. But she suspects, either consciously or unconsciously. Which is to say, she thinks you might be gay. But she is in denial about it. On some level, she is fighting the idea, and that's why she's saying inflammatory things like it being just as bad to be gay as to be a pedophile. There are unconscious emotional things going on there. You may actually find that she responds much better once it is actually confirmed that you are gay. But it's difficult to tell.
I feel bad that you're getting this kind of feedback from your grandmother. Remember that it's based on ignorance, not malice. She thinks she's doing you a favour by steering you away from homosexuality. But what she doesn't realise is that you can't be 'steered away' from it. It's a part of you that can't be switched off or reprogrammed. What she also doesn't seem to understand is that homosexuality isn't just about physical intimacy, just as heterosexual relationships aren't just about physical intimacy. I'm guessing that your grandparents aren't having any sex at all (maybe they are, but I didn't want to introduce that mental image!) and yet they're still together. They love each other emotionally and spiritually even if they're not loving each other physically. And the same holds true in homosexual relationships. You don't need to engage in anal sex to be gay. And sperm doesn't damage the sphincter - where did she get that? And STIs? Um, straight people get those too. And of course I don't need to say that being gay and being a pedophile are not the same or even comparable. But she's working on information that was passed to her possibly decades ago. She obviously isn't living in modern day if these are her attitudes towards this. Eventually you'll reach a point where you believe you'll be more comfortable (with yourself and those around you) being out than if you stayed in the closet. Perhaps you're not at that point yet. We all reach that place in our own time. When that time comes, you'll have decided that you can't really care what your grandmother thinks about these things, because you will KNOW that you're OK and you will KNOW that she is wrong about this. You are responsible for YOUR happiness - not anyone elses.
