Hi, I'm here with hocd

I don't know what exactly it is you want help on, but reading that I didn't get a whole lot. You say you have HOCD, but there's no descriptor of how it's affecting your life... you literally just said "I've got HOCD". Anyone can come by and say that.

On the other hand, you spoke a lot about how attracted you are to women. That's great. But are you attracted to men? Do you notice good-looking guys on the street? Did you get aroused watching gay porn, or the guy in straight porn? Only you can honestly answer these questions, since we can't read your mind. And our advice is only as good as how honest you're willing to be.

With regards to the thinking a good looking guy would be cool and wanting to be friends with him, I just wanted to say that I went through that too. And I'm definitely gay. I'm just taking the liberty of debunking that now, so we're clear that it isn't an indicator of HOCD vs. actually being gay. The bottom line is, you were admiring attractive men. The question now, is why?

You've listed a bunch of your gender conformity things, but none of those determine your sexuality. They might predict it (to an extent), but you can be the manliest man and still be gay. So again, you need to figure out whether or not you're attracted to guys. That's the only thing it means when someone is gay/bi.

Your age also plays in here too a bit. If you're a teenager, well, guys get erections from just about anything. I'm not saying you weren't aroused from cuddling, but it certainly means less in that sense.

And as for watching gay porn and being scared, that's normal. It's two things society doesn't accept (homosexuality AND porn) all in one package, not to mention you something you don't want other people knowing about. Of course it's scared. Nearly everyone here can relate to that feeling.

I'm not saying that you don't have HOCD and are in fact gay, but around here most of us believe that HOCD is just a form of denial or bargaining for people who are coming to terms with their sexuality. It might exist, sure, but it's certainly the minority of cases of people with same-sex attractions. The questions I asked are to help determine who and what you're actually attracted to. A lot of your anecdotal material given is stuff that gay guys (at least myself) can relate to, so it doesn't mean much either way.

And welcome to EC.

I was tempted, oh boy was I tempted...

 

There's no such thing.

Let me quote one of our other admins rather than try to say the same thing he said in my own words:

In other words, no one in the scientific community recognizes HOCD as an existing condition. So yes, that means there's no such thing.

Now, on to the meat of your post.

The thing about our minds is that they aren't like libraries, where figuring out our deepest secrets is as simple as reaching for a book on the highest shelf, and once you reach it, you can read it and figure things out for sure. Our minds are harder to plumb than that. That creates a problem when you're trying to figure out whether the "potential" for something exists within your mind. It's not as simple as looking under the file of "sexuality" to see whether it's labeled "gay" or "straight" or "bi" or whatever. It's something that we can only discern by observing our natural attractions. It's like how you can't just look inward and figure out whether you're left-handed or right-handed or ambidextrous the way you can look at your head and immediately tell what color your hair is. You can only figure out your handedness by using your hands and seeing which hand works better than the other.

But let's say you've been a righty all your life and you want to know whether the "potential" to be ambidextrous (equally good with both hands) exists within you. So you might try doing things with your left hand that you might otherwise do with your right. You probably won't be very good at it, but in time, you might find some tasks that don't require much manual dexterity, and you might find that your left hand is good enough for those, so you might think you've found proof that you can be ambidextrous. Trying to figure out whether the "potential" for certain kinds of sexual attractions exists within you is like that.

When it comes to figuring out your sexuality, the big piece of advice I have is: don't try to look for potential. Look at the ways your sexuality manifests when you aren't observing it. Your sexuality isn't some kind of encoded message that you need to decipher to figure it out, so you shouldn't have to look particularly hard for any kind of attraction if it's actually there. The question you need to ask yourself is, which sex/sexes are you actually attracted to? Not does the potential exist within you to be attracted to one or the other or both, but are you actually attracted to them? Because if you aren't, you don't need to do a whole lot of looking for evidence of it.

 

HOCD is real. However, it's not an "official" diagnosis. Rather, it's yet another subtype of OCD that can occur with any other concern; pedophilia OCD, rape OCD, cheating OCD, anything sexual is ripe for taking advantage of such a frustrating mental condition. As they are intrusive thoughts, doubting if you're not them does not mean you are one of them. It means you have an anxiety disorder.

The sole distinction here is whether or not you like to fantasize about guys. If you do, you're gay. If you don't, you're not. Anything prohibited by cultural norms (rightfully or not) will trigger OCD in any individual who is even the slightest bit concerned about that thing in question. Quite frankly, HOCD wouldn't exist in a world where it wasn't a big deal.

This table best sums up the vital differences between obsessively and anxiously doubting one's sexual orientation and discovering one's sexual orientation. There are plenty of people with homosexual-centric OCD who aren't the slightest bit gay; rather, their anxiety is provoked by a strongly disapproving community.

 

Just before anyone even hits a big debate on whether or not it's real, I think it's important to remember that we should be trying to help the OP with what we're actually experienced in doing: figuring out (to the best of our ability) if someone is gay or not. And if he isn't, then he can seek appropriate help from knowledgeable people.

As much as I love a debate, it doesn't do a whole lot of good here.

 

Welcome to EC! I won't engage in the HOCD debate, really. Instead, I'll just talk about the more practical aspects thereof.

Let's say you have some condition that makes you feel cold, even if it really isn't that cold out. Speaking completely from a practical standpoint, what are your options? They seem to come down to two basic ones:

* work on this condition so you stop feeling cold.
* accept that you feel cold, and proceed from there (ie, put on warmer clothing).

And frankly, if you ARE currently having "gay thoughts" due to HOCD or some other condition, then I think you've got the same two options. You can work on this condition so you can overcome it, or you can accept the fact that you're having gay thoughts, and proceed from there.

So let's start with the first bit. Do you have any other symptoms of OCD? Are you seeing somebody for it? If not, that'd probably be the first place to start. Working on overanalyzing and worrying about things.

Then there's the second bit. In my example above, it doesn't really matter if you're feeling cold due to the outside temperature or because you've got some sort of condition. The fact is - you feel cold. And the smart move then is to just put on a jacket (even if it's warm out) so you'll feel warmer. Similarly, maybe you're gay/bi, or maybe there's something else going on...but the fact is - you're having "gay thoughts". So just accept that. You don't have to tell the world "I'm now attracted to guys". Just accept that right now, some aspects of men (or sex with men, or whatever else) are alluring to you. And feel free to run with that. Fantasize about it, masturbate thinking about it, whatever. And maybe you'll move beyond that point. Or maybe you'll find out you really were gay all along. But either way, you won't have skipped over having an enjoyable (solo) sex life during this period.

Lex

 

Well, you are so definetly not straight. You may be gay or straight. Also, you have to come to terms with not being straight, and wonce you get over not wanting to be attracted to guys or whatever, only then, and "only you" can determine what you are, if you find that you are attracted to both girls and boys, your bisexual, if you feel or find out you don't really fall in love with women, then your downright gay, but seeing as you said you've felt love, if your being comepletyly honest to yourslef then your probably bi. There's no problem with it, its awesome to know who you are no mater what.

 

Chip can probably fight his own battles, but it irritates me that the same things get mentioned and have to be explained over and over again, and I happened to remember what thread this was explained in, so I'll save him the searching/retyping: comment #47 in this Being Born Gay thread.
*sigh*

Sorry, OP, for going off topic!

 

HOCD is a subset of purely Obsessional Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. It does exist. It was not invented by evangelical Christians. Case-in-point: there are homosexuals that have OCD and develop unhealthy ruminations about being straight, even though there is no evidence that they are, and they've had healthy, enjoyable relationships with the same sex their whole lives up until then.

I'm sure some people on the internet have used HOCD as an excuse to deny their sexuality. It does seem like the trend on the internet is to become your own therapist. There are plenty of self-diagnosed asperger cases to back that up. The answer to the OP is if he thinks he has HOCD, he should see a therapist immediately. OCD in general is very destabilizing, and it could get worse.

Note that many, if not most people ruminate A LOT when they begin to question themselves normally, so telling the difference between the normal kind and the pathological kind is difficult. To answer that question: therapist.

...

Actually I think what would help the OP is if someone else here has HOCD or thought they had HOCD and it turned out to be something else (IE, they were just gay or bi). If someone has been through that and had it resolved, that might be just what the doctor ordered.

 

If you're going to claim that HOCD exists, give us a link to some credible evidence (like a scientific study) to back it up, not just hypothetical circumstantial evidence.

 

I'm not telling you whether or not it exists. I'm asking you where your attractions lie, and you're dodging the question.

No matter how much someone may want to deny it, it's literally as simple as "do you like men? Y/N".

 

Okay.

Two relatively accessible sites. The first one is very interesting. It's written by a gay psychologist with OCD.
I'm Gay but You're Not - You Have OCD
NeuroticPlanet: OCD and Homosexuality Obsessions (HOCD)

Here's a collection of research from Monnica Williams, a PhD in psychology from Delaware... I don't see any evidence on her site that she's some kind of crazy Conservative Christian. She appears to have a lifetime of experience with OCD.
Publications | Monnica Williams, Ph.D.

And here's her paper on HOCD. Looks legit.
http://www.monnicawilliams.com/articles/Williams_HOCD_2008.pdf

 

@Nat3

In my opinion, your posts are really passive-aggressive with your sarcasm and to think that you had no part in provoking Chip into such a response is unjustified. So before you try to act like you are the better person I suggest you take a look at your own behaviour.

 

Hi Thissucks!

I'm not a great believer in labels or categorizing myself or others into pre-defined boxes for the sake of convenient taxonomy.

Thissucks - a question: do you want a label for yourself?

Personally, I see nothing compulsive about being interested in men and I certainly don't see the need to call it a disorder.

The human psyche is complicated - it really sets us apart from most other species, I think - and if I like male AND female pornography, if I like contact with men AND women sexually, I don't see that as something I have to call a disorder - unless my compulsion is putting my life in danger.

I hate the word disorder with a vengeance - Asperger's is not a disorder, it's a difference in thought processes, being homosexual is not a disorder either.

The disorder element, in my view, relates to the onsessive-compulsive element, rather than the homosexuality.

Can you not be content to be mainly straight but with bi-interest? Why does anyone have to excuse their preferences by calling it a disorder?

I'm not getting at you, Thissucks, but you see from the debate your post generated that there is a lot of discussion on the "causes" when we really need to concentrate on the "effects" for people:smilewave