So I wanted to share something with you all. It's something I'm not at all okay with. Happened at work today. Two of my male coworkers stated talking amongst themselves at work about gay marriage. I have no idea where the conversation started, because before that they had been on about the younger one's pregnant girlfriend. Anyway...they were talking about gay marriage... Coworker # 1: He said he didn't care if people were gay unless they were in his family. In his opinion, they had no fucking right to be a part of the family if they were gay seeing as how they couldnt help reproduce or anything. He was all..."they're not keeping the family name alive, so whats the damn point?" Coworker # 2: This guy didnt care if they were gay, they could fuck each other in the ass all day along, but it was stupid for them to get married. He said they should legalize it on some island. Send all the gay fuckers who wanna get married there. Leave them there for 20-40 years then have them come back and tell him how it worked out since there are no babies being born and all that shit. He said if they wanted to grow into wrinkly old faggots and die out then it was fine with him. To hear this, hurt so much. Just when I thought I was making headway on getting some common ground with these guys, I hear this come out of their mouths. I was so appalled, disgusted, hurt... I wanted to say something so bad, but me versus them...they already give me a hard enough time about other things. I was frozen. And on the inside I just kept yelling at myself. I felt so disappointed. All I could think about was everyone here on EC. I know what you will all say, but I feel like I really let everyone down by not standing up for myself, for us, for the entire lgbtq community and those who deserve equal rights but aren't getting them. I was angry at myself for not being more brave and saying something, anything. I could have at least told them I wasn't comfortable hearing that kind of talk. Told them they were being narrow-minded. Something. I didn't say anything... So for that...I apologize greatly, everyone. Just to make it clear, no one there is aware of my beliefs or orientation, or really anything about me. I've not worked with them long enough and I'm not a big blabber of my personal life. So I seriously doubtthe conversation sparked in an attempt to get at me. Still... it was ridiculous. And if I felt uncomfortable around them before...I certainly do now. Funny thing is, I was wearing my Day of Silence bracelet. I've been thinking of getting some gay pride ones, something a little more obvious. Most people aren't as tuned in to DOS as they are a rainbow. Colors are catchy, ya know. But after today, I think I will certainly be getting some pide wear. And I hope with all I am that the next time something like that happens...I'll have the courage to stand up for everyone.
Don't apologise. I think it's very easy to think that we would/could be that brave individual coming to the defense of the LGBTQ community whenever someone scorns it. In reality, it isn't so easy, especially when it's someone you know or have to spend time around like one of your family members or colleagues. Frankly I get the impression that they haven't really had much interaction with people from the LGBT community which is why their ideas are so crazy. They just don't understand that we are just "normal people", in their work place, in their place of worship, in their schools etc. Fortunatly, I have yet to meet anyone with such ingorance/rediculous ideologies. But I would like to think I could be that person to make a stand. I just can't imagine someone coming up with what they said. The island thing was pretty screwed up. So are you planning on wearing any pride stuff to work? Or making it known to them exactly who you are? Have you conicidered speaking to your manager about it? I don't know how things are over there, but if someone in my office said something like that, and it got reported, they would probably be hauled up before some committee. Just don't beat yourself up about not saying anything to them. There will be plenty of opportunities for you to change their views and it doesn't have to be in a confrontational manner at all. Keep us updated on how it all goes! (*hug*)
To be honest, I don't really think they got enough brain to talk any sense into. It wouldn't do any good telling them about invitro vertilisation (which works perfectly well with gay men and women). As for becoming a wrinkly old faggot: I'm fine with that. I will, if put on an island or not. And they will become wrinkly old brainless straight people with childrend who hopefully don't inherit their intelligence. Besides: If gay people don't get children there is more time and money left to get rid of all the wrinkles. So all I can tell you is that if they laugh because you are different, you should either laugh because they don't know who is better off or just feel pity for their lack of understanding.
I know it's not always easy to stand up like that, but I've always been able to be the person who can speak m mind and tell everyone exactly how I feel. Even with my family. Some of them are very anti-gay, unfortunately my dad is one of them. He's a great man minus that little aspect. And I always manage to defend the lgbtq community in front of him and others. I guess it's because this is my job. I already get picked on by them for other things. I need the money. I dunno... But to answer your questions, I am definitely going to mark myself with some bracelets. Seeing as how this particular job is in the food industry, I have a uniform to wear. But I wil be able to wear little accessories here and there. I thought about mentioning it to the manager, but she's not the most open minded person either. I find it very hard to communicate easily with her. I would like very much to let them know who exactly they are working with, but I wonder if it would put my job at risk. It's a sad, but likely potential. I'll definitely keep everyone updated, though.
I'm sorry you had to experience what you did. I do not have a lot experience with it but I know people who are against the LGBT community are possibly split in two groups: 1) They are either ignorant of what they are saying and start stereotyping. They may think being gay is all about sex. For me, that's not entirely true. It's all about the kind of relationship you have with one said person regardless of their gender, how much you care for him/her and in what way you want to spend your life with said person. Sex is just an afterthought, the act to express just how much he/she is important to you. Is it so wrong that the person you really love and care is of a different sex/race/culture/religion? Not to me. 2) They have very strong beliefs, these being cultural, social or religious, just the way you are brought up as a kid by your parents or how they are seen by their local society. Kids do not have, at least initially, a sense of "good" and "bad". Once they start differentiating the two, they will stay adamant with their beliefs. A silly example: if both your parents are vegetarians and as a kid they teach you that eating animals is bad, over and over again, they will not even think to taste meat, unless the belief is modified by external sources, ie. schoolmates. We all know this world is not black and white (well, maybe not all!), so once they breach their personal taboo they will be able to decide for themselves. Why are you not aloud to marry or have sex with your siblings? Because it is tabooed by our society and everybody think it's wrong (hypothesize there weren't any health related issues as well). Again, concept of "good" and "bad" come into play. They will probably change their minds if they find out they are LGBT! Wouldn't be that hilarious? Now what I'm trying to get at, is that the ones in group n.2 will be much, much more difficult to change their mind. You will need a strong evidence to back it and make it happen. Hell, it might not even work if it does not affect them personally! So, I'm afraid, if that's what your co-workers really think, it will be hard to dissuade them. All you can do is really try and show them your prospective. If they do not listen, they will not listen, it will be like talking to a wall. Same thing about religion: people at school / work always asked me why I do not believe in them. I answer: I do not believe in god and for me, the bible is just another fiction book. I prefer to see evidence right there in front of me. Who are you to know you are right? Who am I to say I am right? You have your way and I have mine. And they would just look at me with that shocked face of disbelief. Nobody will ever know and everybody will believe what they'll believe. I hope I am not babbling too much, I tend to do that often, but I hope to have shown my point. I may be wrong of course, that's my opinion and everybody is entitled to theirs. Morale of the story: Ignore them as much as possible. If you have the courage to reason with them, with subtle signs or words, I wish you all the best of the outcome. Otherwise, put all in a box and lock it in the far reaches of your mind.
Alright. Here's another episode from work. A week later. This time the man with the crazy island idea is back again. And also Manager M, who I ranted about today in a personal blog. >_< We had a customer come in today that was obviously born a biological female. However, due to their mannerisms and the way they presented themselves it is possible they could identify as an FtM. It's also highly possible that they identify as something else entirely. Seeing as how I've never seen this person before in my life until today and I obviously did not pose the question to them...I really have no idea. Point is, though...it was a biological female coming off as a male. While this individual was in the dining room enjoying a meal with two of their comrades...I had ventured back to slice up some more lemons. We were running low, you see. While I was in the back I overheard M and Island Guy talking about the "transvestite." First off...I really wish that people were more educated. Transvestite. Transexual. Transgender. They are not all the same thing. Anyway... It was so ...rude. According to them...it's gross. Really gross. And people need to learn to be whatever gender they were born with instead of trying to act like somebody they're not... It was the most offensive thing...Especially considering my gender issues. Thing is, I was about to say something, but something came up, can't remember what, and we all scattered. I had finished my lemons and needed to clean the place up so I could get back to the front. M had managerial stuff to do, and Island was cooking again. But yeah... Thought I'd share that moronic idea as well. My coworkers...Whew. :rolle:
I don't mean to belittle your annoyance at what these guys said, but, am I the only one who finds this to be a really attractive proposition? Probably am, but still, I have to say, I've had that fantasy. As for the ignorant fools you work with, well, sadly, they're everywhere and, unless you're willing to stand up and tell them to stop it(and inform your manager that if it doesn't stop, you will seek legal action because you shouldn't be made to feel like this in your place of work, and that it is up to the manager to assure this), then you'll just have to take it.
I think you should look for a new place to work. I know this job might be very important to you, but what is more important is your mental health. Working in such toxic enviroment will eventually wears you down, and might lead to depression. It is very dangerous. Not to mention if somehow such people know about you, it might escalate to physical violence. If you can't leave the place, then see if you can be put in a different position somewhere else far away from those people, where you can't hear what they say. Trust me, it is not worth it working there if you have to be around those kind of people all the time.
Oh, your not Spineless. You're smart. Once you have a another job oppertunity to pay the bills than you can curse them out. Or better yet give me the resturant phone number and I'll do it for you. People can believe whatever they want to believe. Their words can only cut deep if you give them a knife. Sometimes I have a thought of speaking out against the inconsiderate, but then I will be cursing them out in my mind all day. I have learned to not give people the satisfaction. Humans beings as a whole love to take note of the flaws in other in order to access how "weird" they are. The people at your job, your manage, they all need the to put you down in order to bring themselves up. People ask me why I am so unphased when it comes to racism, Sexual-Phobia, insults. It is because I myself couldnt care less about whether I had their glorification. I do not fear for myself when I see these people, I fear for their children, for their friends, for their peers. However, me lashing out isnt going to change any opinions. So what is the point in letting it get to me. If they wish to judge what they consider to be my "flaws" so that can aquire some momentary personal gradification, than I say, good for them. Though I too will partake in humorous grin when I think about the flaws they are showing at the same time ^_^.
Your concern means a lot to me, truly. But no worries. No one there knows about me and that's fine. I honestly am not sure I want them to. But not because I'm afraid. I'm the type of person who would come out just to annoy someone I know didn't like it. Anyway, it's a small establishment and there is no, getting put somewhere I wouldn't have to interact with them. But again, it's alright. I can hold my own. And while it is highly bothersome to have to hear insults like that all the time...it doesn't depress me. If anything, it angers me. Infuriates me. And drives me toward my goals in the lgbt community even more. People like them are the reason I'm super passionate about what I do within the community and what I plan to do. Fuel for my fire. The only problem here is that M and Island guy are both managers. Heh. Awwww, my hero. (*hug*) But yeah. With that one interview having panned out pretty well, I'll hopefully have a new job, a much better job, very soon. In which case I would be cutting one of my two part times and this one would be it. My other job is in retail and my coworkers there are fabulous. We have gays, lesbians, me, and just really open people. It's great. But yeah...some people. Heheh...
Meh I don't think you're spineless at all But I understand how it can irk you. I dunno what's worse, coworker 1 or 2....please tell me the younger one is like a teenager thus could make the whole having a pregnant girlfriend laughable. Please tell me that's the case?
Actually the one with a pregnant girlfriend is..20-22. Still...Not that old. Island guy is in his 30's with a wife and kids. And then M is in her 20's with a boyfriend. Meh. But thanks! And let me just try to be corny and funny here. But I guess I'm really not spineless, because if I were...I wouldn't be in so much pain at the moment. Damn misalignment.
Meh the one with the girlfriend who's pregnant makes it more pathetic. He should be the one more worried about being ashamed. Bringing a child into a world when he's not even old enough really to support him/her..
When I read this I don't feel as they have openness to learn anything from your standing up or knowing about you, other than they may like having a subject to their bigotry. I've heard of these somewhere else before, but I can't remember now and also I don't remember reading this thread before. Could anyone pleas tell me if these are common arguments? If so I think, we should look into common phrases like these right. I think even we don't speak up, at least silliness of such should become generally known. These bigots infect others and scare who in denials. When I first heard those I was wondering what will happen to a family member who is/become sterile. They could make the member to leave spouse but what if it's the member who has the problem, what they going to do with him.If they don't like a gay family member for that, pure stupidity. About the island story actually I was imagining the same thing myself but thought a planet would have been better we'll have more space then. What about if we all one day found a way to have our own genetic children( who knows science), then how are the minority (i.e. straight) of our planet going to be treated and felt haha. Those should be praying daily to not to let us have that ability if they think to isolate us. I agree with Gen. Btw I think each of us could/should start educating one of those uneducated people who we meet, when we are still not out to them. Then I think at least one by one of them would become somewhat educated, don't you agree? Best way to tackle I think become close and comment on their myths and opinions. That's my view. A close associate can do a lot than a stranger you know and a lot more than a rival. If anyone thinks it conflicts with morality, well, my mind is weird anyway, so I don't care about that moral, I think we need to try to make "it get's better" at least around each of us.
Oh look. Another week gone by and another run in with Mr. Island. It never fails. He always ends up talking about gays at work. So here's what went down today. He started off talking about how his manager at the job he had before this one was gay. He went on kinda like this: "He really was a faggot. You know how some of them you can't really tell..nah, this guy liked to suck dick. And I told him, if you'e gonna have all them damn tattos and try to look manly and shit then you need to talk like a man." [ This is the part where he preceeds to imitate a feminine gay man voice, saying whatever it was his manager would say. ] "None of that girly shit. I guess if you suck too much dick then you end up with a faggot ass voice like that. Fuck that shit. I hate gay people." Yeah. Normally, this would be the end of his anti-gay rambling, but there was another cashier opening with me this morning and she pops up with, "I like gay people. They're fun." So then Mr. Island feels the need to explain that he doesn't hate gay people, even though he just said he did. Again I hear him talk about the island [explaining it to her] and how he doesn't care if women are gay at all [sexist, hypocritical bastard], but that men need to be men [still not sure how being gay makes you less of a man]. So when he gets to the part about the gays not being able to have children and their island dying out...Shay [the cashier] explains that gay couples can have children, be it through adoption or through other ways. It's no different than a women who's infertile. Of course he counters this by saying that it's natural for women to have children so if she's infertile then its just fixing a problem, not playing God. I throw out the bit about intersexed people and how it's possible for some of them to reproduce. He didn't seem to have too much of an issue with that part other than saying it wasn't natural. I dunno...this guy just really needs some sense knocked into his head. Also. This happened yesterday at my other workplace. This particulat job in is retail and I don't have an issue with my coworkers here like I do at my aforementioned job. Everyone that works at CR is really outgoing and openminded. Gay guys, lesbians, trans, straights. We've got it all. Haha. But some of our customers, however... So yesterday was crazy. But there was this one customer I checked out, twice to be exact, that just made my night. She was beautiful, and she was born with a biologically male body. Yes. She is trans. I kno it for a fact because she happens to work in the same military building as one of my coworker's dad. Her name for this thread: Marie So when I was checking her out, I was so happy. For some reason I get really excited to have those kind of lgbt experiences in the store. Well after she paid and got her stuff she went to shop around a bit more and I was graced by the presence of two ... I'm not sure how to describe them yet, young women. They weren't mean about it. If anything I think they were just a bit underexposed. But as soon as they got to the counter they kept looking at Marie in secret, whispering amongst themselves, and finally they asked me whether or not I thought Marie was a man or a woman. So I told them Marie was in fact a woman and they just looked at me like I was crazy. They were all "Well she looks like a man. I think it's probably a guy trying to be a girl." I was very adamant about the fact she was not a man. I didn't think it was my place to say anything about her transition, obviously. And when the girls left they just kept saying "He's a woman." :\ It was obnoxious. Marie doesn't even look masculine, minus the fact she has a more defined jawline and chin. That's it. She is gorgeous.
With a sledge hammer. I KNOW people like this exist, but it still shocks me when you hear actual stories like your's where they just spew out things that make no sense, are hypocritical and ignorant. I am so sorry you have to co-exist with these mongrels. (*hug*)
Indeed he does. It's so frustrating having to hear him spew all this stupid shit all the time. But thanks, hun.
