I'm curious if anyone else is in the same place...I was straight for the first 45 years of my life, was married, had a child, and it all felt natural. Then I met an amazing, openly gay woman and fell in love with her. It was a shock, to say the least. We've been together for two and a half years now, but at my request have told no one. We say we are best friends and housemates, are trying to start a business together, etc...Since she is out, her friends know the truth but for very valid reasons she has distanced herself from the lesbian community and so I haven't made friends with any openly gay women by knowing her. Given my age and my long string of unsuccessful straight relationships, none of my friends or family question my assertion that I am simply tired of dating anyone, and want to be alone to concentrate on my own interests. I lie as needed to preserve the illusion she and I are merely friends, and so does she. At this point, I don't intend to come out to anyone I currently know, although if I met new people I might be more honest about our relationship. I sometimes worry that I am too comfortable with all the lies. Then I think about the way I was raised--never make waves, never cause conflict, the basic "If you can't say something nice (something everyone can agree on), don't say anything at all". My friends and family are not particularly homophobic, but they have had decades of seeing me a certain way, and to change that would be shocking for them, upsetting and controversial. The party line seems to be that being gay is fine for other people, but it's not anything that has ever happened in OUR family. I just don't see any upside to telling anyone. I also really can't cope with the societal stigma...As a straight woman, I never had to face that kind of hostility and judgement from total strangers. The few times I dared to hold hands with her in public and was stared at, yelled at, glared at, and basically made to feel as though I had three heads (each more hideous than the last) I found it truly appalling. She is used to it, and it didn't phase her, but she saw how it made me feel and agreed it would be fine for us to never display our relationship in public. So many people keep saying that living a lie is wrong, unacceptable, dangerous....but what is the payoff for coming out if you're basically a very good liar and able to carry it off for years without a hitch? Being gay is much more difficult than being straight. It takes more courage, and energy. Lying is supposedly so wrong....but it feels more right to me than being verbally abused in public by complete strangers. It feels more right to me than causing my family great stress simply so I can stop doing it. Why should they be uncomfortable so I can (theoretically) be more so? I'm not even sure I'd ever BE more comfortable, knowing I caused them distress. In my search for a better understanding of all this, I was at another website run by and for lesbians. When I asked these same questions I was called a dysfunctional coward and worse, and that was after only one post. I could see why my girlfriend says the lesbian community can be too harsh, and why she chooses not to be involved with it anymore. I mean no offense to anyone here, I don't claim what I'm doing is right. But I sincerely want to know if there's any reward great enough to make leaving my closet worth it. Frankly, I just don't see it. Any thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated.
Hey welcome to EC. Im not in your situation but I understand your predicament. I can firstly assure you though that noone here will call you a dysfunctional coward or anything like that. The first point im going to make is that I guess it all depends a little bit on where you live, I live in the UK which is pretty much accepting wherever you are, just on a sliding scale. I am out to pretty much everyone and hold my girlfriends hand in public, but even though the UK is accepting I have experienced low level homophobia on a few occassions. Whilst this hasnt made me want to stop holding my girlfriends hand in public, I can imagine that if it was worse or more frequent I might well. Secondly I want to say that I dont know your family, but from my time on EC it can often be the case that even families who are slightly homophobic can often completely change their attitude and become supportive when it is someone they know, someone close to them and this I believe is all due to lack of knowledge or thought on their part. Now I understand that this alone isnt going to make you want to come out to them but you might find if you did they would be supportive. I have a few questions for you, if you dont want to answer them then thats cool. Firstly you say your girlfriend is out, im assuming therefore that she is out to her family. Are you accepted by her family? Do you attend family gatherings etc? Secondly how does your girlfriend feel about loosing contact with the lesbian community? (I know she said it can be harsh, but does she miss it in any way, or now she has you is she perfectly happy no to be part of it?) Lastly, imagine for a minute that I could promise you that your family would be ok with it, would that on its own change your mind? What about if I could also promise that you could walk down the street holding hands without being abused?
Thanks for your response, I appreciate the kindness. To answer your questions--My girlfriend's parents (it seems to me) must know we are a couple but it has never once been openly commented on, or confirmed. They refer to us as friends, we never act as anything more than friends in their home, they call us "their girls" but they've never seen us so much as hug. I have attended one family party, but I was there to cook/serve food as a favor to them, and I was not introduced to any other family members or guests. For what it's worth, her brother is casually polite to me, but his wife and daughters are actively rude without stating openly it's because of sexual orientation. The wife and daughters are Catholic and they're rude to my girlfriend, too. My girlfriend says she wants no part of the lesbian community. When we met she was at the end of a 10 year domestic partnership with a frightening woman who I am convinced has narcissistic personality disorder, as well as being an alcoholic. We live in a small town, and this woman had either had affairs with most of the gay women, or had made enemies of them by sleeping with their partners. That pretty much burned the bridges. My girlfriend says she is sick of the drama that is prevalent in the lesbian community. I have only met one of her gay friends briefly, the woman acted like I was something she needed to wipe off the bottom of her shoe. If I could have a 100% guarantee my family would be okay with it, I'd be honest just to save myself the effort of lying. It's possible they would be, but my gut feeling is don't risk it. My mom is 75, she just doesn't need the stress. My sister and I have enough issues around my shortcomings as a person, I don't feel inclined to hand her yet more ammunition. My daughter...well, she actually asked me once if TJ and I were more than friends, but that was after she'd had a few glasses of wine so I was able to change the subject and it never came up again. I have had the horrible thought that after my mom passes away I might change my position, but clearly I'm not wanting that to happen anytime soon. I can see why the people at that other site called me a coward, I know I am looking for what is easiest, not necessarily what's right. But that's one of my questions...is there a wrong and right? Is it simply what's right for me? I get the strong feeling a LOT of people would see me as really treating my girlfriend poorly by asking her to lie, and hiding her importance to me. She says she doesn't mind, but I know she woudn't bother to jump through all these hoops on her own. Then again, she's had 24 years of being out to get her mind around the idea. Gak!!!! Confusion abounds...that's why I'm here.
I think its completely understandable that you dont want to risk it with your Mum, there are a lot of people who dont want to tell their grandparents, I guess because you are contemplating coming out at a later date your parents are older so I totally understand. Whether or not you come out to your daughter at a later date can be considered as and when it becomes appropriate. It sounds like your girlfriend was glad to get out of the lesbian community. I only asked because I thought if she had given it up to be with you but deep down missed it, then I think long term it could harm your relationship as she may have resented you for asking her to give it up, but it sounds like this is totally not the case. I think you have hit on a really good point and one that is absolutely right. In some situations there is no wrong or right apart from for yourself. Some people come out to everyone, almost shouting it out loud with pride, im not like that but at least in my opinion that doesnt make me wrong. I tell people if they ask or if I get to know them, but unless im with my girlfriend or people have a good gaydar then I dont think people would know. I think if you and your girlfriend are happy with the situation then there is nothing wrong with that.
Thank you so much for your comments, and thoughts. Even though I have no desire (right now) to come out to people I know in my daily life, obviously the need to talk with folks who will not judge me, and can relate is growing and this forum seems the safe, perfect place to have someone to talk to without having to risk more than I am currently comfortable with. I'm glad I found this site.:icon_bigg
Well, the first thing that I noticed is that I can see why you were so comfortable in your closet. I can't say all, but from what I've observed, most people that are closeted are not in a successful relationship like yourself. And I know that I may be completely wrong about that. You seem to have everything that you want, so there's really no need for you to come out. I understand that no one wants to face public scrutiny, but do not let that deter you from showing affection towards your girlfriend. I'm a huge fan of PDA, public displays of affection, but if you're at risk for being attacked then I wouldn't recommend it. If I were you I would come out to my mother because she is getting older. I used to talk to this girl who pretty much said the same thing; she couldn't come out to her mom because she was an older woman as well. She didn't want to cause her any extra stress because she was sick. However, I do believe that you may regret it if you do not, but it's totally up to you. I'm glad that you found this site and I'm happy to help. If u need to talk to anyone please feel free to message me
Thanks for your thoughts. I am extremely fortunate in having a girlfriend who will support whatever choice I make. She's awesome. I am fairly sure that if she were the type to pressure me, that would be a deal-breaker. I have heard people using the words "internal homophobia' recently. I truly don't think that's my problem anymore. I think my current view is "Life is hard enough already". The idea of how much energy it would take to deal with the consequences of coming out to even just one person...it makes me exhausted just to think about it. It may make me seem politically apathetic, or cowardly, or sneaky. It's what I'm choosing to do for now. After rereading that last bit, I have to say it's also because if things came to such a bad point, I could go back to a guy. I would miss my girlfriend terribly, but the urge to be with another woman is limited to her specifically, not necessarily women in general. My relationship with my mom was not great in my teens. Once I settled down with a husband and a baby, it got much better because she finally approved of my choices. We get along just fine as long as we stay on the smooth surface of things. It's what she prefers and always has. She finds strong emotions or open displays of emotion to be unseemly. Having first had the experience of not getting along with her because of my choices, and then having had the experience of getting along with her well because I told her what she wanted to hear, I choose the latter. It's easier for me, and at her age (75) she doesn't need the stress. I've found it really helpful to talk about this--thank you.
It sounds like everything is going well right now, and that's really great. You might want to consider about how it will be in times when things aren't going so well, though. For example, you might want to think about how it would be if your girlfriend were hurt or sick and in the hospital. If no one knows that she is your girlfriend, how will you have any emotional support at that time? Would that be a time when you would want to be coming out, in the middle of all that? Or even if you and she just had a fight, or even broke up--where would you go for the emotional support that you need in that kind of situation? So, I guess I recommend coming out to at least a couple of people, just so that, if something goes wrong, you have at least one or two people to depend on for support. Your daughter would probably be a good choice, since it sounds like she has an idea about it anyway. It's pretty clear that you do have some shame about it--otherwise you would have told your daughter the truth when she asked. But we all have to deal with the shame--it would be strange if you didn't have some shame and internalized homophobia.
Thanks Ianthe, Your point is completely valid. I will have to give that more thought. When asked about it outright, I didn't hesitate to avoid the question, I really didn't want to talk about it, and that does mean I have problems with it. I guess part of the confusion is it doesn't feel like shame, as I define the emotion. It feels like panic. Also you comment made me think that there is something very wrong with being too ashamed to admit that I am the same as my girlfriend. How can that not be offensive or hurtful to her? I'm very grateful to you for pointing out what you did.
Hey I was thinking about this and what Ianthe said and I agree she made some very valid points. I was wondering maybe if you had any close friends or family (other than your Mother) who perhaps you could perhaps tell, people you can trust to keep it to themselves but offer you support should you need it.
Aren’t I a bit late in this thread??? Oh, well… I’m just going to point out a few things… Hmm… I’m pretty sure some people must suspect. I honestly don’t think EVERYONE believes you guys are just friends… Or maybe they know deep down, but they keep on discarding it. IDK… In my experience it’s A LOT easier to come out to people who you just met instead of old friends. For one, I don’t really care about strangers’ opinions… also we don’t have a history together. Old friends… It’s not a problem, but I sometimes have this feeling => (-_-“) before coming out to some people. I guess I wouldn’t want them to think I lied to them purposely, despite the fact chances are I didn’t know I was gay when I met them. I don’t care what people say, but the closet can sooooooooooo comfortable. I personally didn’t reach that “boiling point” some gay people talk about… You know, that you HAVE to tell people or else... I just didn’t. After I told my sister (the first person I told) it took me over three months to tell my father… I was not crying inconsolably all day long or suicidal. I just didn’t care. The closet can be just so comfy. I reached a point where I was “Meh… Whatever… I’ll just die closeted and IDGAF”. Why did I do it, then??? Why did I choose to tell my father (and by extension my mother and oldest sister)?? Because I felt I couldn’t be truly honest with them… I guess it was creating a distance one way or another. I was getting all “Meh… I don’t see the point in telling them”, as well… but then again, that meana that I wouldn’t be able to participate them in some things that I was doing. So later on my sister’s boyfriend proposed to her… and I thought that it took him a lot of courage to do that. ‘Cus you know, his whole heart must have been on the line… when he popped one little question. And I was: “What the hell… If he can propose, then I can come out”… next weekend I did. And then I went crazy about it… It almost became addictive. =P I think I rather be out than in, though. There’s not much of a difference, I guess. I mean… your daughter definitely suspects. If she just asked you, it seems like she’s OK with it (or did she gave you a reason for you to believe that she wouldn’t be OK with it???). You could create a better relationship, if you open yourself to her about it. The good thing about coming out??? I don’t know… I’m very hermetic, so for me telling others about my relationship status, well… That makes no much of a difference because either gay or straight I never tell my stuff. The only difference is that I can say publically: “I have find ____(insert female name here) super hot”. Hmm… And I think what you wrote there is debatable. As a woman have you not been subject of discrimination??? I personally have been verbally and physically harassed… as I think any other woman has. And, yes. You’d be adding more strangers’ harassment, if you add “gay”… but my point is that you’ve been in that situation before and I’m sure you dealt with it the way you thought it was best… As I’m sure you’d deal with it the best way possible, if the harassment is due to you being gay. You learn to work with this type of things. The problem here is that you don’t seem to be 100% okay with your gayness, as you put it: panic (for me it was “uneasiness” and “awkwardness”); therefore you see that harassment as an issue. That said, one’s gotta be careful. For me, living in a highly catholic conservative sexist country… well, let’s just say some people believe they can punch the gay away. Geezus… (-_-“) Why do we do this??? Why can’t we just be kind to our own?? Why do we have to mistreat each other??? So, some people don’t feel like coming out. Big deal. Coming out is personal. It’s none’s business… I don’t get why some gay people think it’s an obligation. I think whoever wants to remain closeted then it’s perfectly fine. I only oppose to those who know they’re gay and closeted and start saying all those rude remarks and homophobic comments about “fags and dykes”… and overall bashing the Queer community. Under your circumstances, I see why you don’t feel like coming out to your mom. I never came out to my grandmother (she died) and I am perfectly fine with that. I haven’t come out to my extended family either (except for one uncle and I’ve been hinting one of my cousins) for similar reasons as you pointed out. When I have a girlfriend, I’ll be introducing her to the family when the time is right… They’ll judge, scrutinize us and talk behind our backs, but that’s their problem not mine. Again… I personally don’t have an obligation to come out… I don’t have an obligation to none but myself and I don’t feel that have to come out to them. So, whether one remains closeted or not one must remember that it’s personal. Coming out is always personal and should always be done under one’s terms.
