Hi everyone, I'm a 20 year old guy in college and a few months ago I started questioning my sexuality. Up until that point I've never really had any doubts, I'd been with a few women, but it's always been hard because I'm pretty socially awkward. I went through the whole "see girls in the sports bra on the track team" erections, but I've never really been as outward with my friends about talking about it. I always valued not kissing and telling and keeping to myself though, so that could be an explanation. While I was seeing this girl over the summer I was having a great time, but when I saw my dad when he came to visit me he casually joked that "maybe I was gay" to the fact that I've never had a long-term girlfriend. Now this wouldn't really bother me normally, but sometime after that I had a dream about a guy friend of mine where we kissed and such and I woke up with an erection. Although even in the dream I remember being...I don't want to use a harsh word like "disgusted", but it seems to be relevant. My therapist tells me that dreams don't reveal anything, but your interpretation of the dream does. So for a few months I've been trying to figure it out. After the girl left to Paris I returned to being my loner self and haven't had any run ins again. Since school has started I've found it difficult to get aroused without touching myself in any circumstance. That is except if I hold off on masturbating for a few days, then if I start fantasizing about inviting a girl back to my house, getting stoned, playing video games, and just going at it I can get hard in the middle of a lecture. I've tried masturbating to gay porn a few times, sometimes even getting myself "warmed up" beforehand. But every single time without a doubt it feels weird and I go completely soft. But maybe I've just conditioned myself not to enjoy it? That seems far fetched though, I'm not really the kind of person to lie to myself. One time when I was a few beers deep/stoned I was alone in a room with a gay friend of mine who I hadn't seen in a while and I asked him how he realized he was gay. He told me that he tried kissing a girl once and it did nothing for him, but all my memories of kissing girls have been great. I had the thought to try kissing him to see if I enjoyed it, but decided not to as the thought didn't arouse me. I think that a straight person wouldn't question their sexuality to that degree, but I can also understand how a person who was questioning for a few months would have a desire to "just know" or something. Also I considered the fact that when my inhibitions are gone I thought about it more, but there's also the fact that I didn't get at all aroused by the thought of it. Oh and when I was much younger, like 7 or 8 years old my friend and me would have sleep over where we slept in the same bed. We cuddled and held hands, but around age 8 or 9 I never really did anything like that again. Now that I think about it, it ended with my first crush on this awesome girl. It sounds to me that I have something called HOCD, but I understand you all see that as someone who is in denial trying to cope and that self-diagnosis is a bad practice. I've never fantasized about a guy (well until I forced myself to recently, but that wasn't enjoyable), always got out of the locker room as fast as possible, and I've had a bisexual friend of mine (the aforementioned crush, who has never been wrong about anything sexual that I know of [haha]) say that I would be "trysexual if I wasn't so heterosexual". Sorry about the wall of text, I would just like some impartial opinions on this. It seems to me that I'm just a guy that has been caught up in trying to consider all possible options so I can live my life in the best way possible, but I would imagine someone that has actually realized they are gay would have a better opinion on it. Does this remind any of you of the process you went through when you realized you were gay, or does it just seem like I've gotten caught up in knowing with 100% certainty something that can't be known with 100% certainty?
Hi there, and welcome to the site! First of all, regarding the HOCD thing - this is somewhat of a controversial topic, and quite frankly, very frequently misunderstood. HOCD is not, strictly speaking, a condition of its own - it's just (to my understanding) a manifestation of OCD that happens to be concerned with doubting one's sexuality obsessively, despite having no reason to do so. If you were displaying other obsessive/compulsive behaviors and weren't having any thoughts about same-sex activity (for lack of a less clinical phrase), that would be one thing, but from your post it doesn't sound like that's the case. Secondly, I would forget about the evidence from dreams and from periods where you're under the influence of any particular substance. Your therapist is right - the most important thing about dreams is the meaning we give them after the fact. The issue of porn is another very touchy subject - mostly because the sheer variety of opinions and tastes for porn effectively make it difficult, if not impossible, to draw strict correlations between one's sexuality and one's taste in porn. I know gay men that like to watch straight porn, straight people that like to watch gay and/or lesbian porn, and gay women that like to watch gay (male) porn. Plus, when you're just starting to come out - including to yourself - it's not uncommon to be uncomfortable watching gay porn - it's a little too "real" for some people at that point. All that said, I can say that, personally, some of this sounds familiar. I did have times where I would consider the thought of, say, kissing another guy, but would dismiss it as "unthinkable" or "weird" - but, in the back of my thoughts, I was dismissing it almost as if I was doing so on command - because I was "supposed to." What are your thoughts on the subject when you're free of pressure, sober, and otherwise not being influenced by external people and/or forces? Do you ever catch yourself watching other guys? If so, what are your feelings when you realize what you're doing? Do you ever find yourself drawn to a particular "type" of guy?
I'm not hearing anything in your description that screams "GAY" to me. Or, for that matter, much that raises any strong suspicions. And as for the HOCD, if you don't have other OCD-like symptoms, you can pretty much toss out that idea. OCD itself is pretty rare, and the particular flavor of OCD that manifests as primariy obsession about sexual orientation would be exceedingly rare. So the one thing that's left is the possibility that there's a whole bunch of denial going on. And that *can* happen... we've had guys who came to EC and absolutely insisted they were totally straight, had a girlfriend they liked, etc... and then, as they explored more, found that there really was a lot of denial going on. But unless there's more you're not mentioning (such as masturbating with male friends in junior high or something) there's nothing I'm seeing that indicates any attraction toward guys, and usually, even with the people in a ton of denial, there's something that could point to that possibility. If you really want to find out, why not go on a date with a guy, kiss your bi friend (with his permission, obviously) or -- if you have a really trusted gay friend -- try masturbating with him or something. It won't kill you, and since the porn doesn't seem to have done much, actually trying something should help you put it to rest (or give you further understanding) without too much downside.
One of the problems that seems to have come out of the increased awareness of homosexuality is that we've made normal human sexuality into a "gay or straight" scenario when in fact, what is normal is to have curiosity and interest in both men and women, even if those attractions are never acted upon. Your description of being close to another boy at a young age is very common. Your questioning is normal. Your curiosity is normal. Everything that you've described is typical and normal. What sticks out in your post is the social awkwardness and anxiety that your describe. The key to all of this is not the question of whether you are gay or straight or something in between. The key to all of this is your anxiety and is sounds like this is just one of several things in your life that you feel some level of anxiety about.
First of all, thanks for the quick replies everyone. To answer your question Gravity I've tried imagining what it would be life to kiss a guy and generally do things when I'm sober and it just makes me anxious/weirds me out. Like you said though that could be just a bit of denial. I'm open to the idea, but I've never really one to keep from looking at the void. I've never had a repressed homosexual experience though, masturbating with a friend for instance. As I think about it right now it doesn't really repulse me, but it certainly doesn't arouse me. I think the reason things like this no longer repulse me though is because I've accepted that things of the gay nature aren't disgusting like I once thought, it's just something that some people enjoy doing with each other. Personally I just can't see myself enjoying it. Even when I was in middle school whenever we went in the gym locker room I always kept my head down and never really looked around. I always hated the locker room in all honesty, I thought "why can't I just wear the clothes I brought to school?" But that was a younger, more smelly time. I've never really looked at a male friend and thought about them sexually either, I'm capable of realizing when guys are attractive, but in hindsight that's only after people told me that they are. I have this one guy friend who once told me the reason he gets girls is that he's "pretty good-looking" and I remember thinking how arrogant that was to say and nothing more. Part of me thinks that the results could be skewed because I don't really want to be gay, it isn't anything like pressure from the family though or religious concerns. I've been agnostic since a very young age, and after I started considering whether I was gay or not I told my parents what I was thinking and they were surprised because I've never given any inclination, but they said they'd love me regardless. I think the reason I don't want to be gay is that girls are so awesome, but maybe I'm lying to myself? Part of me sees even a moderately attractive girl and wants to make her feel beautiful. I've been trying to transcend society's idea of attractive lately when I realized that if you were really straight you could be attracted to any girl. Unfortunately when that happened this whole ordeal happened. My biggest fear is not being able to get it up for a girl, it's never happened, but not only would that make her feel bad it would cement that I was gay in my mind, even if that has no basis. Before the questioning I was able to get aroused when I wasn't even paying attention, girl sits next to me in class, girl is out running. I remember a couple months ago I was making eyes with a girl across a room and couldn't help myself. When I was younger I was always embarrassed when I got a boner in public and tried to make myself stop, funny how I regret that now. After the questioning I've just had such a low libido, the thought of being with a girl right now makes me nervous because I would constantly be thinking "oh jeez are you gonna be able to get it up?", even though there's no empirical evidence to make me think that. I suppose that I may be slightly gay, or maybe I'm just open to the idea. If I had to guess I'd put myself on a 1 on the Kinsey scale. But I suppose every guy in denial would do that (haha). "I'm only a little gay" they(we?) would say. If I turned out gay that would be alright though, see I keep this journal and it would be interesting to see how a person realizes that they are gay over time. The only other evidence I've thought of is that I don't have as much a desire as my friends to find some slut and bring her home, although maybe I'm just more mature than my friends? Love sounds much more interesting, but I suppose it's easier for a guy who hasn't experienced a break-up. Thanks again for putting up with my questions and concerns, I just don't want to be one of those guys that goes through having a wife and kids and hates himself. I've always wanted a wife and kids and I hear that's one of the symptoms (from you all) of denial, although it isn't like a "this is what you're supposed to do" thing and more of a "then you could come home to someone that loves you" kind of thing.
At this point, I would say just give yourself permission to feel whatever you're feeling - including being weirded out by the thought of being with another guy. There's nothing wrong with being gay, but there's nothing wrong with being straight, either. Don't worry about stereotypical responses or not fitting in with other people - if you really are a 1 on the Kinsey scale, then that's fine (many people really do fall there - it's a scale for a reason, after all), and if you don't want to bring a girl home for a one-night stand, that's fine too. Not having much of a sex drive at this point is understandable, given the questioning you're going though, so I wouldn't worry about that either. Not really wanting to be gay - if you're referring to not wanting it for yourself, in the privacy of your own relationships - could be a form of denial, I suppose, but it could also just be the answer you're looking for. Again - give yourself permission to feel what you're feeling, whatever direction that leads you.
I'll second (or third) the idea that I don't get much of a gay feeling from anything you posted. My general advice would just be to go with the flow. Fantasize about whatever you want, watch whatever porn you want. And if you start fantasizing about guys, don't feel the need to come out to the world at large immediately. Just run with it a bit and see what happens. I've had fantasies come and go, especially back at your age. Lex
Thanks for the advice all, you've all told me things I've been realizing on my own. That there is no straight or gay there are only people and who we are naturally attracted to. Personally I've always considered girls attractive, but I suppose being open to the possibility of finding guys attractive shouldn't bother me. It's just a little confusing because I've had situations where if a girl sat in my lap or even looked at me from across the room I'd be incredibly aroused, no such luck with guys though. Essentially what I'm trying to do is start from a clean slate and see what I enjoy, that's all I can do to empirically prove that I'm straight, gay, bi. I don't think that HOCD should get as much slack as it does on these forums to be honest though, even if it isn't what I'm "suffering" from. The idea that naturally anxious people could doubt something they were sure about in this day and age, where we hear stories about guys that suddenly realize they are gay 20 years into their marriage, is totally believable. Sometime I can't even decide if I like vanilla or chocolate ice cream more, let alone something as complex as human sexuality. (haha) I've never felt pressure to conform to any particular standard, but I could see someone being in denial about something like that as well. The problem with denial is that someone who was in it would have no idea, it's like the Dunning-Kruger effect. Maybe I am in that transitioning stage, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if I was just following the idea that 'you never know until you try'. In fact I'm a little taken aback by the amount of people who say that if you even consider being gay you are in the closet or bi, even if I've never had a same-sex experience/fantasy and have always enjoyed women, but I'm curious simply because I recognize that denial is a powerful force. It's upsetting that I've lost my libido though, even if I didn't get laid very much when I did I could always go a few times without a break. Now I struggle to get it up the second time when masturbating. Thanks for the help though, I just have one last question. When some of you realized that you were gay, did you ever think to yourself that you would miss having sex with women? Even when I force myself to fantasize about having a relationship with a guy it ends with me cheating on him for a women. (hahah) When you have conversations with well-endowed girls do you not get distracted? I have heard that even gay guys love boobs though. Maybe the lesbians can understand where I'm coming from, but there's just something so arousing about touching a girls boobs.
People can doubt themselves, and almost everyone asks themselves the question at one time or another. That's normal. OCD is in a completely different category, it's an uncontrollable obsession that, as I mentioned before, generally manifests in more than one type of obsessive thought. HOCD is simply bullshit. It doesn't exist, and is a label that the right wing crazies came up with to justify all the people who are gay but can't bring themselves to admit it. There's no support in any credible scientific literature, nor from any of the reputable psychology, psychatry, or social work associations, for the idea that it exists. So it's important to help people get accurate info. Anxiety from thinking about the possibility isn't uncommon. Obsessiveness, as in official, diagnosable OCD, is rare. HOCD is nonexistent. Those are important distinctions
Hi, welcome to EC I'm going to agree with the above posters that there isn't anything in what you have written that comes across as gay. When I was about 6 or 7 I already had crushes on boys so for me I cant really answer your question about when I realised I was gay because thats all i know xD However, this doesn't mean that everyone experiences such attractions at an early age, some people start to get crushes at the start of puberty or some don't even realise until they are much older. When I'm talking to a girl with big breasts, it does nothing for me at all Of course, I take notice of them but I have no desire to stare at them or to touch.
Hey, I enjoy the few times when my libido goes out of control. But most of the time, I'm happy it's a bit more handleable. I mean, yeah, sex is great, but I got shit to do, y'know? Never had sex with a woman, because I realized that wasn't what was getting me horny. I've had women hit on me in the past, and I've simply turned them down. Maybe the same way you might with a really attractive guy. You might notice his attractiveness in a rather objective way. "Hm, I can see how women swoon over this guy." I once had an occasion to have a lengthy conversation with a really attractive woman. I had people literally going out of their way to walk near us so they could gape at her. While we were standing there talking, I remember having two thoughts. "Wow, this may be the most attractive woman I've ever met in my life." And "I'm obviously gay, because absolutely nothing is happening south of the border." Lex
Well thanks for the assistance and guidance everyone, if I had to guess I would of said I wasn't gay as well. I just wanted to get some input from people that have observed the coming out process a few times in their life to see if I sounded like I was just going through the first stage or not. I was anxious over the idea, but I can see now that was because I was upset over the idea of losing the ability to sleep with girls. Chip what you said may be true, but I think that with people's obsessions with labels nowadays leads people to try to look for something that identifies them. While it may not exist in the form of OCD I wouldn't discredit the fact that people would start questioning in this day and age while not being attracted to the same sex and get anxious about it. It seems to describe what happened to me, although I'll keep an open mind through college on the chance that I'm going through very strong denial. I couldn't see how simple it was through all of the bullshit though, you either are attracted to the same sex or you aren't. Although I've tried to embrace being gay for a few days and I just keep finding myself looking at these young college girls. It was very nice to get a better understanding of the mind of someone else though, so I thank all of you for that experience. The idea of not being aroused by girls seems so foreign to me, I'm actually pretty ashamed I didn't consider the idea sooner. It is nice to know that I am probably not repressing things, unless I'm incredibly skilled at it, but in that case I'll probably never know. (haha) Maybe I'll be back soon if I have concerns or realize I am in fact gay, but in case I'm not I thank all of you for putting up with my questions.
What is really bothering you making you question like this? Is it the whole sleeping in bed with your buddy when you were both practically toddlers? Dude maybe you should forgive yourself you did not even know what sex was at that stage. Nothing happened it was all innocent. Holding hands with someone you platonically like is the same as just hugging a same sex friend with no sexual feeling connected to it. I think your friend(s) is also confusing you - the gay or bisexual ones. But when you know who you are and what you like and do not like they do not have to drive you nuts like that. I think it is a good thing that you watch gay porn and force yourself to fantasize about the idea and that your gay/bi friends make you question yourself like that since now you can figure out what you really like... and you say it disgusts you and the very thought of kissing another guy also does not do it for you...so if you were gay you would have loved the graphics of gay intimacy and would not have been able to get enough...but it is safe to say that you ARE NOT GAY... and you will make a wonderful straight lover to a straight girl. Self exploration is a good thing to get to know yourself and what you want in life or not...no bad in finding the self...forgive yourself at least now you know who you really are and who you are capable to love.
where did you get that idea? my "gay" friend has slept with more girls than Charlie Sheen. I think your stressing out to much over the label....just be you
