So here goes. I'm a middle aged married guy with a family and a good life. I've known all my life that I was attracted to guys even more than women. But back in my day, we didnt have the resources and openess that we do today. (I know there is still a long way to go). I've had a few M2M experiences enough to know that it was more than just a passing fancy. Anyway, I "did the right thing" and got married & had a family. I love the people in my life very much and would NEVER want to do anything to hurt them. So I've chosen to sacrifice my feelings and stay in the closet. It would be nice to talk to other guys in the same situation.
Hi, and welcome to EC. Unfortunately, you're not likely to find anyone here that is in the same situation. We've all (for the most part) come to realize that the only way we were going to be truly happy was to be honest with ourselves and those around us - despite the hurt that this was going to cause in the short term. So most of us who were in your situation are no longer there. But I think you'll find that this can be a helpful forum for you to talk about what you're feeling and what you're thinking. Just be advised that most of us have not chosen the approach that you have. I was married for 9 years to a wonderful woman and we have 2 beautiful little girls. I finally came to accept that I was gay when I was 35. At that point I wasn't being faithful to my wife, and I too was having those M2M experiences. The shame and guilt that resulted was just too much, and I went into a real downward spiral. Eventually, I was miserable and everyone around me was miserable. It wasn't a situation that would have been healthy to maintain - so I know without a doubt that I'm better off for having come out - and so are my wife and kids. No - they're not better off perhaps than if I'd been straight and we'd lived a 'happily ever after' kind of life. But I wasn't straight, and the marriage as a result was deteriorating fast, and they're better off now than they would have been had I tried to stay. But that's my story. Everyone is different. What worked for me isn't necessarily the route that you should take. Again - welcome to EmptyClosets.
There is at least one of us still like that Jim... Like Nickeldug I am still living that life although I have remained faithful to my wife. The situation for me is that although I know I am gay deep down inside, I don't have the strength to turn the lives of my children upsidedown. I remember in one our previous discussions Jim you said children are pretty resilient and your correct, they do come to terms with things pretty well over time. But right now, for me at least, their happiness means more to me than my own. Things with my wife haven't been great for awhile and I feel like I am the only stability they have. Eventually the time will come for me to move forward and search for what I long for and when that time comes I will welcome it with open arms. I hope that my decision isn't offensive to anyone but I think that sometimes it has to do with timing. I have read so many inspiring stories here on EC about others who have been able to weather the storm of their journey from the closet. It is they who provide me with the courage to know that when the time is right I will be okay. I may be older and have more gray hair, but I will be able to move forward feeling okay in my decisions. Nickledug, I hope that my post has helped you to see that you are far from alone.
Actually...I kind of plan to stay in the closet for most of my life. My family doesn't approve homosexuality except my divorced father. So...were sort of stuck on the same boat Nickeldug!...but welcome to EC !
>.> OK, I know I"m a gay kid, but still when parents things "keeping it quiet for the happiness of the kids" it so rubs me wrong. I'd rather the upset and pain of a divorce and the worry and fear of finding out a parent is gay than to grow up and some day hit with "Oh, yeah I was gay all those year with you and your mom, but I dind't want to hurt anybody..." And I know what it feels like to lose a parent, because I have none. It just really messes me up that people would lie to their kids about who they really are. I'm sorry you feel how you do, both of you, and everyoen else in yuor place, I really hope that someday your able to break out of that fear and helkp stand up and teach your kids taht until you love and respect your own self, you can't really love and respect others.
Add me to the list. I love my wife but I'm bisexual and attracted more sexually to guys. I didn't really come to terms with my bisexuality until quite late in life although I had M-M experiences before I married. The feelings were always there but I was just confused. It was really a different era than it is today. There was no such thing as a teenager coming out or at least I had never heard of it when I was a teen. The pain and internal struggle I've gone through and continue to go through seems better though than hurting my wife who is wonderful person and my best friend. There is always a part of me that wonders what could have been but at this stage in life I don't think it is going to happen. Off topic, one thing that irks me is the number of younger people on EC with parents that are not accepting. I have children and there is this thing called unconditional love. I just don't understand how a parent could disown their child because they are gay, bi or transgender. I watched Prayers for Bobby tonight on YouTube. Every parent of a gay or bisexual child should watch it.
HatterMad, Don't sell yourself short by saying your a kid. You are a person will feelings and there is nothing wrong with expressing your thoughts. You had an opinion, you stated it, and I respect your feelings on the matter. However what may be difficult to understand is that as a parent I have to make decisions that I feel are in the best interest for my children in my particular situation-if that means that I have to sacrifice my needs to provide them with the emotional stability that they need at this point in time then that is what I will do. I am also very sorry to hear that you have no parents. I lost both of my parents as well and I know the void that has left in my heart, my father was my best friend.
I'll poke my two cents in this jukebox! I just celebrated my 15th anniversary with my wife and four children. I came out to her in May and fully expected to be immediately tossed in the street; losing her, losing my kids and everything I cared for so deeply. The exact opposite thing happened: she immediately accepted that I'm a gay man and can't change that. We made a plan together of how to be best friends and remain separately together. Within the next month, we will be moving the family so I can go to school and live openly. I honestly feel like it's a case of having my cake and eating it too. I keep pinching myself to be sure it's real. In any case, don't underestimate the love and compassion of an amazing woman. I did, but fortunately I found the courage to talk to her frankly about it. Oh, one more thing, we've been "rabid" Jehovah's Witnesses for our whole lives! Imagine taking that system on as well as the gay stuff! I have an incredibly optimistic outlook for the future now ... and boy, do I want everyone else to share it. I would read on EC and talk to Jim about how his outcome was NEVER going to be possible for me ... and look where I am now! This humble pie tastes sooooo damn good!
I also was married for 15 years and we are now separated.. Plus we have kids. Relationship broke down not over sexuality but maybe I didn't show her the right attention? I know deep down I am Gay, not come out yet, but working towards it. Never even kissed another man let alone any sort of relationship. But I know it will happen. I need to deal with that first then address the issue of coming out.. That's why I am here and I am blogging my journey to help mŷself and maybe others in the same position..
Hi, I'm a woman, but like you I'm firmly in the closet to everyone but one person, and have no plan in place for coming out. I totally understand the feeling of simply having too much to lose, the price is too high, and there's too much at stake to take that kind of risk. It creates a whole different set of problems than for those who do plan to come out, and most days feels like a no-win situation. Just wanted to say that--we may be an extreme minority here, but you're not alone.
Just my 2 cents. I don't understand how getting married is "the right thing to do" when a guy already knows he's attracted to men. Then adding insult, he has M2M experiences on the side, which in my estimations is full fledged ideceiving of a loved one. Hmmm. Don't those we claim to love ...have the right to know when a partner is sleeping around, possibly exposing them to all kinds of health risks? In my own life I follow 2 main rules 1) "Treat others as I want to be treated" and 2) "Do the right thing, especially when nobody's looking". THerefore, deceit of my loved one is the wrong thing" to do, specifically because I, myself, couldn't stomach it if it happened to me. I hope things turn out well for your loved ones.
You should end it as soon as possible, she needs to get remarried and find a real husband. I know what you did in your mind wasn't wrong but it was. My aunt got married had kids, and came out as a lesbian, it was not pretty, good thing she did it early, and her husband is married again; he at least gets a chance of a real MARRIAGE. If you love your wife you'll give her the chance to find real life, you have tricked and deceived this person for your whole life, how do you think she would feel, forget about how you feel. Honestly, I would flip on someone if they didn't tell me early, I would be supportive, but if the kids were grown up and there was no chance of me finding another real partner, I would be beyond words mad. I highly advise you figure out how to do this, and do it sooner than later. I literally think this should be illegal, it's just so wrong. You need to make things right. This is one time that I take the sides of the heteros. I literally do think it should be illegal for someone to play another person along like that, it is just so manipulative and crazy. I also understand you are from a different era so what you did isn't as bad, because you obviously did think that was the right thing to do, and I'm sure if I was around at that time I may be in a similar situation. But honestly think about this other human beings life, she had a life before she met you, she had hopes and dreams, and aspirations, and you gave her a sham.
Harsh! I thought that EC was supposed to be a place where we don't judge others but rather try to provide one another with a safe place to discuss our situations. Granted, I do not agree with the concept of people being unfaithful when they are in a relationship be it with someone of the opposite sex or the same sex. As for the situation for those of us who have learned later in our married lives that we are gay/lesbian - it's not so simple to say "Sorry honey, even though I love you I figured out I'm gay now! So while you still have a little of your youth left I'm gonna cut you free to get into a real marriage!" Really, do you think it could be that simple? I agonize every day knowing that I am keeping something from my wife whom I really do love and would never I intentionally hurt. Please just don't judge someone for their situation especially if you've never walked in their shoes. As for being illegal, really?!?
I agree that WooEEE's response is unnecessarily harsh and more than a little insensitive. That said, there's one huge problem with the argument that you (Soloist) are doing "what's best for your wife and kids", and that is... you've appointed yourself judge and jury about what's best for these other people, and that really isn't fair to them. As WooEEE stated, you can't know what your wife would want, because you aren't in her head. But is that your call to make? Just deciding that you know best is rather arrogant and, I bet if you are totally, completely honest with yourself... self serving as well, as it's less painful than having to confront the situation. What I've told others in this situation is... reverse the situation. If you were married to someone, loved them deeply, believed they were your life partner, but they, secretly, didn't love you, couldn't love you because they were gay, and didn't tell you because THEY decided they knew what YOU would want and what was best for YOU... how would you feel? And how would you feel, years later, when your spouse magically decided that now was the time that you were entitled to know that she hadn't loved you for all these years, when she could have told you 5 or 10 years before... before the kids left and not only do you now have an empty nest, but, as well, a wife that didn't love you and probably wasn't going to stick around? Wouldn't you at least want to know the truth, and have the option of deciding whether you want to stay in the relationship, or, as WooWEE suggests, have as much time as possible to find another relationship and be with someone who can genuinely love you as much as you love them? While only you can speak for you... my experience in talking to and working with the older, married men in this process, as you are, is that nearly all of them convince themselves they're doing it "for the good of the kids" or "to not hurt the wife"... but when they really look at it, they realize that, for the most part, that's bullshit and they're really doing it for their own selfish reasons, because they don't want to go through the inevitable difficulty. Bottom line, it comes down to shame. They are afraid that if they do this, their kids/wife/family will no longer love them, that they won't be worthy of love, and that they'll lose the connection they have. And that's the real driving force, not the rationalization that they've used to convince themselves they know what's best. And if your relationship with your wife (and your kids) really means anything, then authenticity, in a situation like this, should be the most important thing. In all the cases I've seen, the kids handle it fine, and the wife eventually does too. It's often a little rocky at first, but these days, kids get all sorts of exposure to gay people in the media, and for most, it is a total non-issue once they get past the initial shock. One other piece: After the initial shock and anger, in nearly all cases, the wife realizes that... she knew, or suspected, but chose to ignore it. And that's a really tremendous piece of it; the husband is NOT the only guilty party, as both conspired together to basically play the denial game. Joe Kort talks about this extensively in his wonderful book "Ten Smart Things Gay Men can Do to Find Real Love." I don't mean to be harsh, I've just seen a lot of situations like yours, and I have yet to see one where, when it comes down to it, the real reason for doing it is because it really is best for the kids and wife. And, for that matter, every situation I'm familiar with, the wife was ultimately happier to know sooner rather than later. Your mileage may vary but... I think it's worth thinking about.
I guess I should be clear... I didn't wake up one morning, realize I was gay, and tell my wife right away. I had internalized this conflict that was raging inside of me, and coped with it / covered it up with addiction instead. And even when I was forced to come out, I didn't want our marriage to end. I was terrified of the future and what it would mean for me and for my kids. It was actually my wife who decided that it was best for us to separate. She made the decision - not me. She was the one who could see more clearly than me that I wasn't likely ever to be happy - and she didn't want to live with that for the rest of her life. (She also wasn't sure she could ever trust me again having been unfaithful.) What I came to accept was that our marriage was failing anyway. I wasn't happy - and it was affecting our relationship. How could it not?!? I was coping with addiction, which was eventually going to kill me. So I was on a path of despair and destruction - and I was going to be of no use to my wife and my kids anyway. Or I was going to be dead. So don't assume this was a walk in the park for me - or anyone who comes out after being married. It's hard. But the pain and hurt that I caused by coming out were short term. And what it did was freed us ALL to be happier. My wife has remarried. I have remarried. My kids now have 4 parents who love them - and they're totally fine with having a gay dad and a gay step dad - and they're 9 and 11. They've shared it on their own with their teachers and their friends and classmates. I really don't think they consider themselves to be victims or less fortunate than any of their peers. I understand that there might be timing issues. And you certainly need to be comfortable enough with yourself to be able to come out and be positive about it. That's crucial. But never say never.
Hi. I dont know what i am so I see no point of coming out. Sometimes I like women then I see some guy and it all changes. My family is very high profile where I live and I do not want to bring any more unnecessary attention to our lives. Secondly I have no wish of announsing what happens in my bedroom. Thirdly I really want to have kids and I cant wait to find a girl and start a family. So yes we do exist.Its hard because a lot of out gay people don't get it. PM me anytime
Ya, I would rather have my parents try to obtain the ultimate level of happiness in their lives rather than worry about me, I am strong enough to handle myself. For example, the way my parents act right now, I would not be surprised at a divorce and would welcome it if my parents became even a little happier in the process.
OK, let's put this a different way. This is a little harsh, but it isn't intended to be: So if I hear you right, you're saying you might be gay, but you aren't sure, so you aren't going to come out. That part makes sense. You need to figure yourself out first. The business about not wanting to bring attention and not discussing your bedroom activities, though, is bullshit. The reason you don't want to come out has to do with the shame associated with the possibility of being gay... and that's perfectly understandable. We've all been there, because the messages we get from society, organized religion, and other people contributes to the unconscious message that being gay is bad, or that we're outcasts. The problem is... if you try and live with this idea that "it's nobody's business", you go through life with a ton of shame about it, and that, in turn, really limits your ability to be happy. It also ensures that you spend your life sneaking around, trying to "fit in" and be someone you're not... which just increases the amount of shame. Now... if you are genuinely bisexual, then it's a different story. But that isn't what I'm getting from what you are saying. You're saying it's an on-and-off thing, and that's typically more consistent with someone being in denial than it is with being bisexual. But assuming for a minute that I'm correct, then on top of the arguments you make above, you say you want to have kids and can't wait to find a wife to get married and have kids. So what I hear you saying is, you have no problem finding some woman who thinks she's found the love of her life, marrying her, and having kids, and all the while, you're essentially using her to get the kids that you want, because I'm sure you're not going to tell her up front that you don't know if you're attracted to men or women and don't know if you can really love her in the long term, or, for that matter, if you ever have. So after you get what you want, the kids... what then? What if, at that point, you decide you want someone you can really love? Yes, you've got kids, but you've really taken advantage of your wife. And you've also really screwed her over, because you've deprived her of a genuinely loving, fulfilling relationship. Of course people like that exist. They're called incredibly selfish people who only think about their own needs and not about the needs of their potential life partner. Most of the people I've talked to that have gotten married have been unsure and confused, and hoped that somehow getting married would "make them straight" or "clear up the confusion." So they went into it without a clear idea that they were gay. A few, like you, were basically selfish and married knowing that they didn't love their wife. Not a single one is happy with that decision. I mean... the ones with kids are happy they have kids, but horrified at the heartache they've caused their spouse. If you have a shred of integrity and care about anyone besides yourself, you owe it to yourself to explore yourself and figure out whether or not you're gay before you even think about getting engaged or married. To do anything else is incredibly selfish. I realize this is an incredibly difficult process to be going through. And a lot of people think they can just stuff the genie back in the bottle, pretend that nothing ever happened, and they love women, and get married and go on with their lives. But it just doesn't work that way. Ask any of the other people here who are in their 30s or 40s and have done exactly what you're suggesting. It's not easy like you make it sound, and all of them have really suffered for their earlier selfishness (which is how they describe it, as well.) This is something that you owe it to yourself, and your future partner, to really think about and work through first. And that's a large part of what EC is for.
Adding to the voices from the younger generation, I can say that while you may think that it is for your kids' best interest now, not only will it make you feel guilty and unhappy, but when your kids grow older and begin to understand, they WILL feel guilty too. When kids have a parent sacrifice their happiness for them like this, it does create a sense of guilt in them that can stop them from being happy as well. Life is hard for everyone, and even if coming out to your family hurts them (which it will), it will be better for you and them in the long run. Nothing causes more pain than dragging out this kind of pain. If you keep lying to your family, they will start to feel like they are doing something wrong, and work harder and harder to help you with something they don't even understand. They'll be unhappy, guilty, and feel like they aren't 'good' enough for you, when in reality it's just a fact of who you are. Yes, changing a family in that way hurts. But dragging it out and pretending everything is fine hurts as well. And pain where you don't know the cause is always harder than pain where you do. However, you do need to be sure for yourself as well. I don't know how old your kids are, but you should at least talk to your wife. If your marriage is overall happy, then she must be able to understand you on some level, even if you are hiding this from her. It might help to have a few private conversations with her when you can talk about this (although not directly), so you can get a better idea of how to help you both through this.
