I'm one hot mess. Please help me figure it all out if you can!

My issue revolves around my childhood best friend. I'll call him "W." For many years I have had vague inklings based on certain behavioral clues that W might possibly be bi or gay. Now I'm feeling super intensely confused, frustrated and anxious by some of W's behavior toward me lately. Especially when coupled with some of his actions in the past.

My friend "W" and I grew up together from birth in the same neighborhood, our families were very close and shared the same traditional "values." (Heh, you get the drift.) Anyway, W is a year or so younger than me. Since I had no brothers and he had no older brother, W was like my kid brother, and I his big brother. I was also about 6 inches taller than he was, so that description fit. We would hang out at the pool some Summer nights and end up watching TV late past Midnight while having a sleep-over. This went on from around the age of maybe 11 to 14. I had zero sexual or even sensual feelings for him. I wasn't even sure what my exact sexual inclinations were back then. However, I distinctly remember W on numerous occasions (and numerous times per visit) trying to grab at my crotch under the sheets. I would keep forcibly moving his arm away, yet he would persist. I actually grew to dread that part of the evening. Also, he loved to initiate back-rub sessions in the bed. Worrying about the "appropriateness" of it all, I tried to politely dissuade him, yet he persisted...and persisted...and persisted, lol. Truth is, he was pushy and I was not. And, oh, it did kinda feel good, but still nothing sexual in my mind. On another occasion, W claimed one night before bed that since there was a nationwide drought, water rationing had been ordered for our town. He said that we had to take a shower together to conserve water! Well, I wasn't used to showering with anyone, so I refused. He threatened to tell his Mom if we took separate showers. I still refused, but I wasn't 100 percent sure whether he was bluffing. So, I kept negotiating with him. Finally, he said that he wouldn't tell on me if I would just drop my towel for 5 seconds right there in the bathroom. I resisted for several minutes, but I soon grew tired of this over-extended back-and-forth. I dropped the towel. He seemed fascinated. I was not amused, so I went and took my shower in about 3 mins and headed to bed. But before I actually could get into the bed, W ran to me and jumped on me, wrapping himself around me shouting, "I'm gay! I'm gay!" No, seriously. He was laughing and being his usual playful-jokester self, so I just ignored it. But I never forgot.

As we entered middle and high school, we naturally grew apart. He was sent to Christian school, me public. We would see each other on some holidays, but our socialization was more or less suspended for about the next 7-8 years. I went to college, he did not. When I returned, I saw him maybe once or twice. One of those times was at his wedding. We barely spoke there. Then a few years later tragedy struck when my Mom died. W came to the funeral, and I went to his parents' house soon thereafter. I remember him hugging me and stroking my arm and hand. He kept playing with my wrist while making prolonged eye contact as we sat down. It was awkward and intense. After a few minutes, he then kinda pulled me off the couch and we walked into another room away from the older folks. All I can remember thinking at that very moment...for the very first time ever was, "holy crap, he is sooo good looking! When and how did this happen?!?" Truly it was a bitter-sweet feeling for me given what was going on in my life at the time. But it was so true, I couldn't deny my thoughts.

Over the next year, we would hang out maybe three times a month. Sometimes with his wife, mostly just alone. There were times when we would be looking at pics or my facebook on his or my Iphone, and he would come up behind me and put his chin on my shoulder to look. I never rebuffed him. We would hug about 3/4 of the time upon parting. The full hug, not the bro hug. His marriage was in severe trouble. He would tell me everything. He said he wasn't sexually attracted to her any longer, and that maybe he never was. He said he was a virgin when he married her, didn't date for almost 6 years after he broke up with his high school crush. Until he found his wife, that is. And he admitted he had no real idea why he married her. My take then was that his Christian upbringing had something to do with the dating gap and virgin thing. But the fact that he was a 9 who had married a 5...? (If you know what I mean). Well, that made no sense to me at all. He was very interested in my sexual past. Of course, I lied. I'm not out.

Fast forward another year and he's in the midst of a nasty divorce. His girlfriend and he never really see each other because of their shift work. He confides in me that he has sexual dysfunction issues. Silly me, I steal 2 Cialis pills from my Dad's stash and offer them to him. He looks at me with delight and says, "Let's see if they work!" I laugh it off, he takes the pill and we go our separate ways. Bummer, lol. About this time, there are tons of accusations flying from the wife, court paperwork, etc. I would help him organize his case, meeting him after his shift. So, I neglected to say that W is very masculine acting and clean cut. He likes guns, drives a truck, has a strong body, has spent years in law enforcement and wears a ton of garb along with his uniform. He would make it a habit to change out of this stuff right in front of me about 75 pct of the time. This didn't help things on my end, as I was slowly being drawn deeper into something. Something, not knowing what exactly that something was... except that I liked it. On a few occasions, W sat right up against me on a three cushion couch in a t-shirt and his boxer briefs wanting to show me some paperwork or email. His left leg pressed right against my right leg. Neither one of us would break the position for maybe 5-10 mins when would he would get up and do something else. He would sometimes lean his head on my shoulder while standing or sitting next to me. One time W took a phone call next to me on the couch and all of the sudden leaned back and rested most of his weight and all of his back on my chest/stomach and lap. I was kinda stunned, not knowing what to do with my hands! I just sorta put my left arm on the arm rest and my right arm lightly around his right arm. A half hug/grab. He sat there motionless, talking for what seemed like 15 minutes.

By the way, he and I never discussed homosexuality, and he's not outwardly homophobic. But his Mom told me one time that they don't go to Ben and Jerry's because "those guys are gay!" So, you know he's aware of his family's position on the subject. I will relay this weird (perhaps related to the homophobia subject) tidbit to end the post. While he is a bit paranoid (being in law enforcement and owning all those guns) in general regarding general safety issues, a couple of strange instances out in public have caught my eye recently. One time we were at a big auto show, and without warning, he turned to me and told me that this guy was following him and that he wanted me to create some distance between him and this dude. Stunned, I looked to where he pointed and saw a juicehead-looking, pumped dude of above average attractiveness. I didn't know what to make of this episode, so I chalked it up to his old paranoia trait. But then several months later we were at a Mexican restaurant. Out of my side vision, I noticed a very, very good looking, built guy standing at a table about 20 feet from us as we turned to get up from our table. He was in the direct path of W, I was on the other aisle. Before I could even turn around to face the direction of the front door, W had bolted past this dude and was at the front exit door some 40 feet or so away. And we had stood up at that same time to leave. I have no idea how he got there that fast, but it was obvious to me that W had bolted for some reason. When I got up with him in the parking lot, he seemed a bit out of sorts. I made some joke about his speed, he didn't really respond. A few months later we had a frank and heated discussion about his behavior toward his Mom (I did not approve), my Mom's best friend. He became very enraged and I happened to throw out at him the two bizarre panic episodes I'd witnessed with the those guys. I didn't make it seem like he was fixated on these guys or into them, just that his paranoia was freaking me out and I couldn't understand why he was like that. He seemed taken aback at the specificity of my two examples and then calmly tried to explain the episodes away. He would go on to bring this up a few additional times over the coming weeks, as if he were trying to do some type of damage control. What did he think I thought about those episodes, really?? I'll likely never know, but if he could have read my mind.... Last week, we were out again for about half a day and he seemed to glance at a few guys at the mall. i've seen this behavior before, but it's never terribly obvious. He's careful, if that's what he's even doing. Although if you're gay, you know we know cautious cruising when we see it. You can never be sure, of course, but it sure seemed that way. In fact, the last time he did it he, totally unprompted, offered an explanation to me! I wasn't ever going to say anything. W just blurted out that the guy "looked like the type to pull a gun," and that he had been "thinking about a strategy for evading the danger" which included "pushing me out of the way of the bullet." I was speechless. Oh yes, and that guy who according to W appeared likely to shoot us was, by the way, rather cute. Hmm.

Ok, so am I completely crazy to think that W might secretly be gay or bi-curious? Am I crazy to think W might have been leading me on or hitting on me? Was he maybe trying to feel me out about how open I would be to discussing his and/or my orientation? Or is he just a nutcase or a sociopath? Whichever, I'm desperate to find out, but I don't know how to proceed. Thanks for reading and for your help in advance!!

 

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Yes. About the episodes when we were little, I think you are likely correct. I always kinda chalked it up to natural boyhood curiosity. I had seen older friends do this kind of innocent experimentation before, but I never did any of it for some reason. As for the persistence, that too always confused me. He was always a real "button-pusher" in all things, and he knew it annoyed me. But to persist in those actions, specifically, seems to point to something beyond innocent curiosity.

In a perfect world, I agree with your suggested solution. Only problem is that his whole family are friends with mine and they're all super conservative. Also, I'm half afraid he might completely flip out and beat the crap out of me. He seems to have some pretty severe panic issues when perhaps visual cues make him question his orientation, so I'm afraid that coming out to him would be too much for him to handle. :icon_sad: Maybe for me, too, but sadly that would consume another thread!

---------- Post added 6th Oct 2012 at 05:06 PM ----------

Thanks. I realize that my fears about an explosion of sorts are probably in the extreme, but I guess that's just me over-thinking it all. I do agree that repressed homosexuality still exists today even though we tend to discount it. We're just a bit older than you are, and I swear there has been so much progress relative to attitudes on this subject in the intervening 5-10 years. Maybe we are the last "trapped" generation? I will give your advice some serious thought, since I really would like to help him and, in turn, help myself in the process.

 

Thanks for understanding the self-acceptance part. That is super insightful of you to say. You're right. I've struggled with this for over 10 years. It sucks.

Yeah, we do talk about everything. I mean, he's cried about stuff to me on a few occasions. I've never had another man cry in front of me. He's told me that I'm the only person on the planet that he tells all of his deepest personal stuff to. His sister recently told me that he had told her that if it hadn't been for me, he might have killed himself over the events of his divorce. I doubt he really would have done it, but he did say that. So, I agree that I can definitely trust him not to share my coming out, it's just a matter of my intense fear of potential "fall-out" in our relationship...and the chaos and conflict in my own mind.

 

Anyone have any tips on breaking the news to him in a way that doesn't make him uncomfortable? Are there hints to give verbally or? Can I go halfway and pull out if things look questionable? I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'm new at this. Thanks!

 

I agree with everything you said. And "c" had me rofl. :eusa_clap The odd reaction of running away...that's something I've never really encountered before with anyone. It's got to be psychological...with a diagnosis maybe. Thanks!

---------- Post added 9th Oct 2012 at 05:21 PM ----------

WooEEE, awesome reply. Thanks. I agree with the bolded 100 percent. That's why I gave so many examples. But it is certainly "dangerous" to speculate given our wants are often superimposed on the fact set. And, yes, the eyes are the window to the soul. I totally agree with your comment about watching where his eyes wander off to in public. In fact, years ago I was shocked to see another very straight-acting friend staring at another hot friend (who I knew was probably gay) from across the cafeteria. I happened to be in the visual triangle, with me and my gay friend standing parallel to each other, and the staring dude standing at the apex maybe 30 feet away...if that makes sense, lol. Anyway, back to the here and now, maybe that's why "W" is not too fond of going out. He's trying to avoid these types of situations. I dunno. Ugh.

 

UPDATE!!!!!

Does anybody who's replied here before (or anybody new at all, please!) think this UPDATE makes much of a difference??----------------

Uh oh. Well....tonight "W" invited me over to his new place. I just got back. Lo and behold, his new post-divorce GF and her 2 little kids had started to move in. Say what? I had thought that they MIGHT one day down the road if that relationship actually worked out, and he certainly hadn't told me it was happening for sure...or this soon. So, she's really attractive and her kids are great. I liked spending time with them, but couldn't help but feel confused.

Worse yet, there was a moment when we three adults were sitting in the den and W starts talking about their recent "date night" and then asks his GF if he thought this girl she worked with would be a good blind date for...ME!! OMG. I was thinking, "oh heyall to the no he didn't!" He's NEVER tried setting me up in my life, nor has he ever really asked much about my last relationship with a girl which ended like 5 years ago with nothing happening between then and now. HELLO!!! Anyway, when I asked him why he would want to set me up out of the blue, he said it was so the four of us could "double date." Argh. I just brushed it off, and the GF said she'd have to think about that particular pairing. That was it. But I was kinda deflated by the conversation and decided it was time to leave. That was about an hour ago.

Well, the kids and the GF were headed to bed anyway by now, and on the way to escorting me out, "W" and I stopped in what I would describe as a utility room between the house and garage. It's like 12x10. He's got a portable A/C in there and two chairs, etc. It's like a little primitive man cave. Anyway, he walked out in front of me and sat down. We started to talk. It was just banter up front. Then somehow we started talking about the firewood we'd loaded off the truck last week. He said he'd been sore and had a bad knee from it. I told him I'd felt so out of shape (it was a TON of heavy, wet firewood!) and like I needed a wakeup call. He seemed to go out of his way to try and make me feel like I had pulled my weight, etc. Maybe I was just being too hard on myself. ----Well, for the purposes of full disclosure....I'm 6'4" and around 250 lbs. Which isn't really "fat" (well, not in the hetero world anyway, lmao!) given my height and build (I still have some build left!), but I've gained maybe 30-40 lbs over the past 10 years. (and despite his words of encouragement, it's time to make a change!) And I don't know if I've said it before, but he's 5'9" and about 175. Not fat, muscle. ----So...I mean I saw him picking up some of those big logs which were like 3-4 feet long and 2.5 feet diameter across---the ones I could probably pick up for a short while but instead chose to roll ---and he manhandled them like they were not that heavy. It was definitely a bit emasculating (and kinda hot, too, argh), especially given our size difference! Oh well, so I go on to tell him more about my body image concerns of late, etc., and out of nowhere he said..."No way you're that heavy, and you're not fat. You look maybe 200lbs. Get up, let me see if I can pick you up." No, I'm not kidding. I know this sounds crazy, but he did say it. Of course, he's always been known to be freakishly strong for his size...or even for a man 30-50 lbs bigger than he is. I think he benches like 335 (which is almost 2x body weight!) I thought he'd probably do it no problem, and he did so without really any leg involvement. Only problem was that we fell backward and I landed with my back on the a/c unit and the chair and saw "stars" for the next minute or so. Ouch! He said he'd like a do=over some time because he was extra tired. Said he'd meant to "fireman's carry" me. I'm like thinking, what?? That would be interesting. I think that's an over the shoulder thing. Well, we left at that. No shake or hug tonight. Just tired and he needed to go to sleep for work at 5am.

Anybody think this GF moving in with W and his suddenly wanting to set me up with a female for double dating...for the first time in our friendship and totally out of the blue.....ahem...coupled with this crazy strength challenge/display at the end has altered the conventional wisdom on this thread??? :bang: Help!! Thanks!

 

Thanks, Crazyguy. Somebody else mentioned the possibility of his having hooked up with these two guys before. It's always possible, but knowing him, I think he'd be too personal security conscious and too un-trusting of others to keep a secret to engage in random affairs. I could be wrong, of course. But he rarely goes anywhere "out" except to work and to the convenience store, or out with me once in a while. Even with this GF...she complained to me when he was in the bathroom that he never takes her out and he's such a complete home-body. That's one of his ex-wife's biggest complaints about him, too. So, I dunno....

But guess what??? I forgot to mention something critical that happened this evening. I think I tried blocking it out...but we three (himself, me and his GF) were talking the election for a sec. He never talks politics, so I was surprised. Anyway,at some point he turned to HER and said something like "I think Obama is for gay marriage or something. I don't understand why gays need to get married." I said that I think it will eventually become law because society is changing attitudes over time. He didnt say anything, and neither did she. But I found it exceedingly bizarre for him to mention a) politics, and b) gay rights issues.....because he NEVER speaks of either in my presence.

Now, my theory is complete on tonight. The "double dating" comment and the gay marriage negative comment was somehow a defensive mechanism to preempt any feelings suspicious or thoughts whatsoever that she may ever have about him being gay...bi....or about ME being gay or bi...or about the two of us being involved romantically or physically (which has, after all, never happened). I wonder if it wasn't one of those "shots across the bow?" A suggestive mechanism to keep people from thinking certain thoughts or to steer them to think other thoughts. I dunno, maybe I'm reaching here.....:eusa_doh:

 

Update, He's not been calling me as usual this past week plus. I think it has to do with the new living arrangements. He used to call me every day, sometimes 2x per day. We'd also see each other maybe 2-3 times per week. Now, he calls maybe only 1x per week and I have seen him only 1x lately...and that was mostly in group. I also gave him some money though he didn't ask for it. He mentioned that he had to borrow 10 dollars at work to eat lunch. I'm sorry but I can't let him starve! I've loaned him money before and he paid me back some by fixing stuff for me. He's really handy, I'm not. I don't want to think he was giving me intimate vibes (see OP) all these past months just to gain my moral support thru the divorce, help moving and to score a few bucks here and there. And now that he has this new "family," he doesn't "need' me anymore? I hope not, but truly I dunno. He left me a vm this morning when I was sleeping (he would know this) thanking me again for the bucks and also for loading his trailer with the wood he'd split. I had a free afternoon with nothing to do and needed the workout. Anyway, it was a really long and nice, sincere vm. I've saved it and play it like every 30 mins, lol. I dunno. Something about feeling wanted/needed/appreciated by my crush is really addictive. But I don't want to be used or to be wasting my time with silly fantasies....if they are silly and only fantasies, that is. Is this real? I don't know how much longer I can hold out waiting for some answer to come from him. I just have a feeling that we won't be alone hardly ever now that he's with this new family. She seemed clingy and they are now working on a schedule which puts them home at the same time.... I like her and the kids and all, but it's not the same as spending alone time with your best friend. I'm feeling insecure and jealous, but I fight that since I am pretty self-aware and don't want to give off those vibes to him in fear of pushing him away. I don't want to be the friend who makes him walk on eggshells around me or worry about what will upset me at the next turn. I guess I'll have to decide here soon whether I can follow you guys' advice. Thanks.

 

Thanks, Pat. I think that's pretty much the consensus. I guess the ball's (still!) in my court, lol. I'm such a coward! :bang: