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Odd coincidental discussion with Mom this evening...

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by TheSeeker, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. TheSeeker

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    So, I have posted my story all over the place, on three different threads so, you can read them if you're bored:

    http://emptyclosets.com/forum/support-advice/73269-most-likely-bisexual-but-dont-want-come-out-until-i-am-sure.html

    http://emptyclosets.com/forum/comin...-out-my-friend-nervous-but-dont-know-why.html

    http://emptyclosets.com/forum/support-advice/73574-i-have-accepted-myself-but-why-am-i-still-so-terrified.html

    It's also summed up on my one lonely blog entry...

    Ok, so as I mentioned in previous posts, I am planning on coming out as Bisexual to my parents in the next few weeks once I know I have a job (and I will know by then). I just came out to a friend yesterday, and am planning on coming out to my Brother in the next couple of days. I am not looking forward to it; I had a religious upbringing, and all that jazz so yeah, it is not the most Queer friendly environment in my house. Not the most Queer unfriendly either, though... Ok, enough! I have said it all before!

    So, I get into this discussion with my Mom this evening, and we have both had a good day. I have been on cloud-9 this evening, for whatever reason maybe from starting to coming out process yesterday? Who knows.

    So, my Mom knows that I am a pretty staunch Ally to the LGBT community, she just doesn't know I happen to be a part of it. So, I mention a friend of mine has been having some trouble (coincidentally the girfriend of the same friend that I came out to yesterday morning). Her Mom has been ignoring every attempt she has made to come out. She and my friend have been dating for two years, and her Mom has not acknowledged it at all. It is very sad. So I mention this my to my Mom, mainly because I realize that a) this is a good way to test the waters and b) it is something that I would bring up even if I wasn't soon to come out.

    She says, well, she (girlfriend of friend) should let her Mom ignore it for as long as she chooses to. I said that it has been two years and she said "Imagine how difficult it must be to accept that your dreams you had for your child are gone!" I was expressionless and argue that grandchildren would still be possible, through a variety of means, but she said "It is still not what you would want for you child."

    The blood may have drained from my face a little, but otherwise I was calm and oddly not distressed. Frustrated maybe, but not distressed. I just found the irony a little crazy. Then it really got strange. Ok, so the therapist I mentioned this morning on another thread, (the guy that told me that homosexuality was unnatural and a choice, yeah f*ck "Focus on the Family"), apparently I mentioned him to Mom some months ago after I got back, most likely in reference to my gay friends I had made over in Africa.

    So, she brings this guy up; after I haven't mentioned him in months. Coincidentally on the day I decide to write about him on EC. I don't think she read anything on here at all, I haven't exactly made it easy to find and she knows better than to go on my computer. I just can't believe she mentioned this guy!

    She says "You know, the reason we took you to this therapist wasn't to change you, we we just wanted to make sure you didn't get pulled the other [wrong] way by groups on the opposite side of the fence." When pressed, she confessed that she thought that if you had an inkling of homosexual attraction, then organizations like PFLAG will convince you that you are gay, since that is "the popular thing to do".

    She acknowledges that some people are "just born gay", but that it's the people in the middle who just "try it out when they're bored of regular sex" that she thinks are absolutely wrong. People like me!:bang:

    Now, I am confident that, if she suspects anything at all, it's that I am full on gay or straight, not that I am in the middle. I was pretty pissed when just lightly tossed out her opinion on bisexuality; granted she could have no possible idea how she was baiting me, since I have been keeping things so tightly under wraps. If my father had been there, I may have come out right then, just to prove them wrong. It's hard for me to be a promiscuous abomination of some kind when you are a virgin, unless my Kinsey 3 is the equivalent to the Scarlet Letter.

    So, I guess I just got to put up with my first Bi slur, from someone who I am not even out to yet! Wow. But I appreciated the regret I saw in her face when she was apologizing about that therapist. I think that she will take it ok when I come out, but I will have a lot of questions to answer and misconceptions to debunk. Whatever, I guess it's a better emotion than fear... Let's see what I feel tomorrow!

    So, I guess my questions are, does this change the way I come out? It sounds like she is ok with Gay, but is a bit Biphobic? My Dad should be fine, shocked , but fine. My brother? We'll see in the next couple of days...

    Thanks for listening, sorry this was long.:smilewave
     
  2. TheSeeker

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    I guess it was too long...
     
  3. Neutrality

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    I read it =) I'm just not good at...words in these kinda situations, I'm only good at jokes....and ponies...
     
  4. TheSeeker

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    Ponies are a good thing to be good at...
     
  5. Neutrality

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    Ponies are good...guys who like ponies are better, except I like Pinkie Pie best =O
     
  6. Chip

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    This is, I think, one of those situations where your parents probably know, but don't want to know. It's a convenient form of denial.

    It's that much harder to come out bisexual than to come out as gay, because parents will always make the assumption that you can and will still end up with a girl, and therefore, "none of this bisexual business matters." Which... does raise an interesting question: If you're in the middle, is this a big issue right now if you aren't dating someone? If there's a likelihood that you're going to date (or keep dating) girls, then the impact to your parents of your being bisexual isn't going to be significant.

    But if you're going to be dating mostly guys, then obviously you do need to tell them... and it does get a little confusing just because people like to be able to fit sexuality into neat boxes.

    So, based on where your preferences are leaning at the moment, I'd say go ahead and have the conversation. It sounds like she's already onto you, so bringing it out in the open will allow you to address the difficult issues and help her better understand you.
     
  7. Toffee

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    Hi, I read your post.

    It doesn't sound like you mum is too happy with gay or bi to be honest. She sent you to a Focus on the Family therepist? wow. She clearly suspects you hence these references to "fence sitting" she thinks sexuality is a choice to be made and people can be convinced of or persuaded into homosexual feelings. Given the biphobic stuff she has said she could be dropping hints that she knows you are bi.

    I don't really agree with what Chip has said that if you aren't dating or are dating mostly girls that it may not be a big issue I think even if you did lean towards girls it is a big issue for you because you'd be hiding part of yourself and it would eat you up inside.

    I think now that you feel more confident about where your orientation lies (from reading your previous posts this seems to be bi Kinsey 3) I think you can tell your parents. It may change their perceptions about LGBT people to know their son is bi and they need to know that there is a 50% chance you may bring a guy home.

    I think it was different for you in the past because you still had religious beliefs that lead you to believe that you were "wrong" now that you realise that is not true you can come out to your parents and tell that that it is definitely not a phase.

    Don't worry about your long posts I enjoy reading them :slight_smile:
     
  8. Colours

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    I admit I haven't read your post thoroughly, but it seems to me your parents seem aware and somewhat understanding of homosexuality so I honestly don't think they won't be accepting. I think they might understand bisexuality once you, as their son, come out to them as bisexual and explain to them how it works and how you feel about it.
    I personally wanted to wait with coming out until I actually (had) dated someone of the same sex, just so I was sure and it seemed more real. I didn't really care about my parents' opinion anyway, if they weren't accepting I'd probably just have moved in with my boyfriend or, as he was still living with his parents and wasn't out to them, move in with my sister. I did feel they should know though and I just wanted to get it over with. I don't know how that is for you, though...
     
  9. TheSeeker

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    Ok, I have a lot to reply to:

    Chip:
    I am not entirely sure where she could have had an increase in suspicion from. Since that encounter with the therapist (10 years ago now) we haven't actively discussed it at all. At least not pertaining me. She had also seen me go in and out of crushes and relationships since then, though I haven't shared any of my same sex crushes with her for obvious reasons.

    She has never been around when I am checking out another guy, and for all intents and purposes I haven't really lived at home for the past four years. Plus, I really did just get back from Africa after not seeing her for two years... So, she is pretty out of the loop when it comes to me. That said, I know she is very intuitive so who the hell knows. I am thinking that the conversation was completely coincidental just because, I have never brought up Bisexuality to her, so for her to make that leap is pretty improbable.

    I agree about the difficulty of it, and I know a lot of parents would cling to the idea that, since the "normal" route is open to me then there is no reason for me not to take that option and ignore the other. No, I am not dating a guy, or girl, at the moment. But I still need to tell them. You see, I at one time I would have adhered to the idea that, as a Bisexual guy, I should just take the "normal" path and ignore my other half. But I realize now that that is a terrible way to look at it. I am Bi, and I want the freedom to fall in love, guy or girl, as I choose to. I don't want to have a hidden side anymore because without halves, I cannot be fully myself.

    My family and I are very close, and I owe it to them to tell them who their son really is. They are already very proud of me for the other aspects of my life and I have been a great son; good return on their investment I guess. Plus, as it has been for years, once they know something about me, then it is official! If am not hiding from them, I don't need to hide from anybody! I owe it to them, and more importantly I owe it to them. To finally be free? Regardless of what the rest of the world may think of me, I think it will be worth it...

    Toffee:

    Thanks for the post! I don't want you to misunderstand about the therapist. I am the one that brought it up with them, crying the whole time, at 16. They sent me because it was what I wanted at the time. I had no concept at the time that it wasn't a choice, since I was so religious at the time. So I needed an adult to tell me it was possible for me to change. When it didn't help in the slightest, which I realized as I got older, I just never brought it up again. We only started discussing homosexuality again when I got out of college and started getting more liberal.

    When she brought up the therapist, I think what she was trying to say had been bothering her awhile. She was trying to convince me that she didn't send me to the guy to "change" me, but rather to get me counsel that she didn't feel she could provide. One thing that I love about my parents, is that they would both die before they sent me to "reparative therapy" (which is now illegal in California!). They want me to be me, but they don't yet understand who that is. This is fair since I just got there myself.

    I think the gap of a decade between discussions will drive home the idea that this wasn't a phase. They also know that I never make a decision lightly, especially one with so many far reaching effects. But yeah, thanks to my religulousness, I think the hardest person to come out to was and will always have been me!

    Thanks!! I have been enjoying yours as well! Also, I love the UK by the way... We really need to introduce the idea of tea several times a day to the US!

    Colours:

    This is definitely the best case scenario and what I hope for. If they are open to understanding, then they will have no problem grasping the concept that you can be born both ways. It's a misconception that my Mom has, but a very common one, but while she has gay friends, she doesn't have any truly Bi ones... No frame of reference. Dad and Brother? Don't know, but they shall be told.

    Yeah, I considered dating a guy first, but the fact was not knowing the truth about myself was keeping me from dating either sex! I had to come to it on my own with minimal experience to base it on. Blame it on sheltered upbringing, or just plain stubbornness on my part, and that's just me!

    Honestly, I think it will be better to face this before I meet someone. That way I can go into it with no fear of being outed, or a nagging dread that I will have to come out because of them. No, I just want to fall in love, plain and simple and have the freedom to do so... I do care about my parent's opinion, but not to the extent that I would try to change. I want them to be proud of me, and I think they always will be. We'll see though. I have plenty of options of people to live with if it goes south though...

    Thanks for you perspective, thank you all! It is great to get so much support!

    -TheSeeker
     
  10. Night Rain

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    Wait, the whole "not wanting to change you" got me really confused. So does your mom suspect that you're gay? I think she does.
     
  11. TheSeeker

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    She wasn't trying to change who I thought I was... Since I am the one who brought it up when I was 16. But I am pretty sure that she thinks it blew over. Also, I am not Gay, I am Bi... but most certainly Queer. I would be fine with being gay if it didn't mean I had to give up vaginas... :slight_smile:
     
  12. Night Rain

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    I think you don't understand what I said at all...
     
  13. Pret Allez

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    It sounds like your mom may not be totally safe or supportive at first, but I think you'll still probably want to tell her, just for your own sake. I think she'll come around. I hope that she does. :/
     
  14. TheSeeker

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    Night Rain:

    I think she suspected something when I was in my teens, but it's been ten years! So no, I don't think she thinks I am gay. As for what you said, I think I got it based on phrasing... But if I missed something, feel free to clarify.

    ---------- Post added 28th Oct 2012 at 11:58 AM ----------

    Thanks Pret, I think she'll be safe, but just not supportive. That's why I am talking to my Brother first. I will have support somewhere...
     
  15. Night Rain

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    Well, since she at least knows you're an LGBT ally, maybe bring up bisexuality and try explaining it to her before coming out? But really, I think you should come out first and work from there. It can't be any worse.
     
  16. TheSeeker

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    Yeah I agree I should come out first and go from there. But it could be far worse... She may be Christian, but she doesn't hate gays and is supportive of gay marriage. Bisexuality is just something she doesn't understand because it is just now starting to be accepted in either community.

    She is not one of those ignorant Christians that you hear about on these forums every day. The woman has a PhD in Biological Science Education, my Dad's is in leadership management. I just found it interesting that she came down on bisexuality like she did, but she didn't specifically say anything about bisexuality, she just referred to people "who just wanted to try it the other way because they are bored". Yeah, I don't really think those people exist, I mean, if you are full on straight or gay the other gender seems repulsive sexually, or so I have heard.

    F*CK! I just want it over with, but I have to wait and come out to my brother and friends first! Frustration is mine...
     
  17. Night Rain

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    Honestly, I can't understand what's the deal with bi hate and rejection. If people can accept homosexuality, then why not bisexuality? This is something I cannot comprehend.

    Perhaps if it's her own son, she will come around and actually try to understand bisexuality? Anyway, good luck! :frowning2:
     
  18. The Queen Bee

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    Hmm...
    Seems like she's picked some signals...
    IMO, parents know (they're your parents, c'mon!)... Or should I say "notice some tendencies". But, yeah. Chip's right. They don't want to know.

    Let me be more clear. I have being a tomboy since I can remember, but given the heteronormalcy in Ecuador's close-minded society, I was "corrected" in certain things.
    My mother (especially) always told me not to play rough (e.g. I had always prefered to play Hide & Seek and racing -as in running- instead of Barbies or dolls)... she forced me into talking ballet when I practically begged my parents for Karate lessons (which never happened... at least not when I was a kid), she made me wear dresses (which I HATED, at least at that point in my life) and small things like that.

    Being told that I couldn't do those things... well, I think that to a degree each one of those "corrections" became one more nail in my closet. I honestly think that prevented me from acknowledging my sapphic feelings before.
    I remember in a LGBTQ forum during Pride month, this guy made a comment like that to everyone. He said that as a child he was always told not to "talk that way"... not to "sit that way"... not to "walk that way" and so on.

    Same with me. When I told my mom (actually when I talked to her after my father told her), I said to her that it's being obvious from day one. I've been gay all my life. They just didn't want to see it. Signs were all around... ALL THE TIME.
    In all honesty, I think my father, despite the fact he "didn't know", thought it "made sense" given my personality.

    I even mentioned this book "My Princess Boy". It's about this 7 kid (??) who likes to dress in girl's clothing. And I told her that chances are this kid is Transsexual and eventually he'll want to change sexes, who knows? Her reply: "He's a kid. What does he know??". Well, he's the one living it, isn't him??... so, I think he's the one who knows best how he feels. But, that proves my point that some people think these things can be "corrected".

    My Princess Boy (A mom's story about a young boy who loves to dress up.): Cheryl Kilodavis: 9780615395944: Amazon.com: Books


    Being part of the LGBTQA-Z community puts on you the spotline and has you "educating people" (Straight, mainly) more often than not.
    Being bisexual, well... I think this one and genderqueer-ness are highly missunderstood.
    You just have to correct them as they go along.
    Maybe you don't want to say "I'm bisexual", but more like "I'm going to start dating guys". Reassure them that just because you feel attracted to guys doesn't mean you can't have a normal life or that you'll try to have sex with everything that moves (maybe not in those words).
    And again... It seems like you'll have to bit a little patient at the begining.

    PS: Sorry if I'm crossing the line here, but actually I'm starting to think your brother might play for our team, as well.
     
  19. TheSeeker

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    Hey there! Great response! So, I was trying to think of any "signs" that I might have exhibited and I can't think of any. I don't have any feminine qualities when I walk or talk, I dress like a outdoor magazine ad from the 70s (like most guys my age here). I don't talk about girls all the time, but it is definitely not conspicuously absent from conversations with the family. I never talk about guys except in the friend sense.

    The fully gay guy I came out to the other night, told me that the only reason he felt that I might be anything other than straight was because I was sensitive with both genders. Now, I may be from Colorado, but I grew up in the Deep South (Georgia) it is a different culture down their and where I was in the Upper Middle Class, I was taught that etiquette is everything and that I should treat everyone with manner and respect. So I guess it is like chivalry in a way, but extending to everyone.

    I was never one of the guys, per se, but I never had any desire to be one of the girls, so while my romantic preferences may extend to both sexes, my gender is firmly and happily male. I have no feeling that I would want to be otherwise. Though that "Princess Boy" likely will :slight_smile:

    I think if Mom knows anything, it is that something is obviously bothering me that I haven't told her. If she guessed, it's because it's the thing that bothered me in the and that we never talk about anymore...

    Lastly, I think this is less that she doesn't want to know, and more that she does and is trying to get me to say it! She is far too respectful of my space to do any digging, or ask me point blank.

    Yeah, he is so damned tough to read though. and it would not be surprising to be completely off base. As selfish as this is, I really hope that he isn't! I think my parents can weather one coming out, but two!? That might drive them over the edge. At the same time I am also afraid that, if little bro is batting for us, then he may be driven even further into the closet because I come out. We both care a lot for our parents, but I have always been bolder and more open with them. Either way, I hope it goes well, and I will let you know how it turns out!
     
  20. Pret Allez

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    I think that's nonsense. Coming out is for your mental health. If your brother does bat for our team, fine. You should both come out. Might not make your parents happy, but neither one of you being queer would make them happy.

    They'll just have to get over the initial shock. That's just how it is.