So, this thread isn´t a helping thread, I´m not asking for help, altough if anyony give me it would be bad. Is more a venting thread because I´m feeling like sh*t. Tonight, I asked the guy I´m seeing to a date. I tried to convice him to go only to an exlcusive LGBT bar, but he didn´t want to. We decided to go to an alternative bar - officialy isn´t a gay bar, but is a very visited place by the gay community where I live. Today I thought the bar would be more 'lgbt' than ever, since there is a big party happening in my city and I thought that most of straight would be in that party - is a tipical straight party- , while the gays would be at this bar and at the others lgbt bars. Well, the opossite happened. Aparently we were the only lgbt there tonight. While we were kissing and chating, the owner of the bar - a very nice woman, she is very friendly of us and my friends[most of them gay and she knows] - came and said: Guys, I´m very shy to ask you this, but the straight people are leaving the bar and if you could only slow down[actually, we weren´t doing anything, just kissing, being exaclty, we almost didn´t kiss, because I thought Well, the night is just beggining]. I totally get her side, the bar is her job, the place where she gets the money to survive and she is very nice to 'our people' and actually, she is very friendly with the guy I was with tonight. I didn´t get angry with her, actually I told her: I totally get you. But at the same time, I felt like shit, not in an angry way, but in a depressed way, completely powerless, impotent. I don´t have to say that the date failed. 2 hours later I´m home now. I´m feeling completely impotent, seeing how small we are still are to others, the straight ones. I asked myself if I was with a girl, someone would be bored. My desire know is to get back there, with a girl and kiss her and see if someone would say something, because I know it wouldn´t! [of course I wont do this] Sorry, I just need to vent.
You have every right to be angry and upset, because it totally sucks. I'm sorry this happened to you.
hey im guessing you are in new zealand at mo sounds like the common attitude here.i had never seen 2 guys kiss in public till i was in oz .
Why angry? If straight people are leaving, I think it's reasonable. There are more straight people than lgbt people and the bar owner has to make money. It's not even possible for you to change the opinions of the straight people that got up and left without tracking them down and engaging them in conversation at which point they'd be more confused than open to discussing LGBT people. I'm guessing this is why you feel powerless, but it's a situation outside of your control and won't be within. Why blame yourself?
Thank you! The fact is, it's not illegal to discriminate against homosexuals, and if that's what will make money, even if we don't agree, we cannot get mad. In response to the original post: Why? These people are just stupid, they can't deal with it, so let them be stupid. But: You refer to "kissing and chatting" as if it's a given. It's not. While I admittedly don't spend a lot of time in bars, I can say that for most of society any kind of kissing is not appropriate in public. If there were a couple, straight or gay, kissing obnoxiously (I'm going to assume it was obnoxious because you were drunk), I'd leave too.
In my opinion while I understand the person coming out and saying something it is still coming from a place of ignorance and I would be pissed. I would definitely take that to the highest up person I could talk to to complain and likely not go back. That in my mind is 100% unacceptable to walk up and say to a customer. It is rude, it is slightly homophobic, and unfair. If that person came out and said something like that to me I would say "If a straight couple where doing this would you be saying anything, probably not. How are you going to tell me I cannot have a romantic time with my date because a couple homophobes are uncomfortable. The fact that you would stand on their side about this is disheartening. For someone who attempts to run a friendly/inclusive/non discriminatory environment you are currently not doing a good job. I am sure some of my LGBT friends and family would not like to come to a place where they cannot even go on a normal date without being approached by a manager." but when it comes to these things I do have a zero tolerance policy *shrug*
No, Im in Brazil. Where/what is "oz"? And about people kissing in public, I already saw in Auckland, especially in K road.
Money shouldn't outweigh doing what is right. As a society, we give far too much leeway to business owners to do awful things just to make money. I don't think her reaction was acceptable at all - unless she does the same thing with straight couples who act the same way. I mean, if she asked a Chinese guy to leave because she wanted her racist customers to stay, would you be so understanding about that?
Yes, here in Brazil I could go for Justice looking my rights, but, I do understand the bar´s owner and also, I´m still in the closet, so I wouldn´t turn this situation in a big case, calling the police etc blablabla. And when this kind of situation happens in Brazil, the first thing is to show on TV, newspaper, internet etc and I dont want this at all. If I google now in portuguese "gay kissing bar" it would be tons of news just about discrimination [of course in non lgbt bars] and usually when this happens, lgbt people go there and kiss to protest. Almost every month there is a thing like this over here. And I know that if I allow this, discrimination wont stop, but we didn´t have other choice. About PDA, is extremely common and acceptable in Brazil[not gay of course]. I know that in US, PDA is not very good, but here, you don´t have a single problem. Straight people were kissing there. This is why I got impotent, they can, but I cant?! And if I came to them and said: Hey, you two straigths, your kissing is giving me nausea! I don´t know, is a horrible feeling, like to choose between my right and their 'rights' and I know that deep in myself I´m not wrong. Never in my life I felt so tiny. When I was leaving and walking through the bar, I felt like an ant in front of a mountain of homophobia. Days ago I was thinking exaclty about this, that altough I got depression,that I already thought to kill myself, that my life 1 year ago was a hell, that I listen to my family speaking about LGBT crap everyday, I never got discriminated in public, I never knew how was the feeling. And the funny thing is that Im a law student, in class we talk about every kind of discrimination: gay, or blacks, or womans, but until yesterday I never felt deeply connected to those people who were killed or were fighting for their rights. This probably is explained by the fact that most of people think i´m straight, so altough I´m gay and suffer/suffered a lot with this, I dont get prejudice directly to me, but in one of the 1st time I be myself[this was only the 2nd date I had as a gay] , this kind of thing happens. ---------- Post added 8th Dec 2012 at 05:00 AM ---------- No, unfortunately, I´m 99% sure that she wouldnt. As I said, straight-kissing in public is very acceptable and encouraged here. You can kiss wherever and whenever you want: bar, street, beach, movies, restaurants and no one would give a damnn about it. Actually, straight people do much more 'heavy' kissing than we were doing and still people pass by them as a normal thing, as a beautiful thing, since they are 'in love' and love should be celebrated.
All you can do to feel better is work on being proud of who you are and in turn having the drive and courage to stand up for yourself. There will always be people like that, trust me I know. But the only way to deal with them is to feel no shame for who you are and learn when to put up a fight and when to instead remove those sorts of people and places from your life in order to find something more positive. ---------- Post added 8th Dec 2012 at 08:57 AM ---------- Best advice I can give to you is don't go back and let her know you won't be going back because of the way she acted *shrug* You can let her know you understand why she did it but that you don't need people in your life who cannot value you and your happiness more than a couple patrons at a bar. She should be able to understand why you would not want to go to a place where you can not appropriately express yourself.
Well, although I agree that people have the right to have any kind of thoughts they want[including racist or homophobics], the bar is a public place, isnt her house. There is a very strong line between thougths and actions. Of course I have sense, I wont kiss everywhere, some places I can really have some physical injuries, if you know what I mean... She cant refuse clients only for 'sexual condition'[actually she didnt ask us to leave the bar, but what choice did we have? Both of us in the closet] We still waited about 15 min after she came to us and then we left. I´m not angry with her, but happy I´m not too. Since yesterday I feel like I´m a child that did a bad thing and got punished by adults. I don´t know how the guy is reacting with this - he´s travelling -, but last night, when we were in the car, he told me Well, the whole night went to the hole. I´m feeling ...[he used a word in portuguese to describe when you get bad news and you feel week, don´t know how to translate it to english] I tried to convince him to go to another place, but he didn´t want to, so I left him in his house. You see in the news, but, as they say, when it happens to you is a different situation. The best thing as someone said is to forget about it, and I hope that this will be a learning lesson of life for me. I felt the prejudice for the 1st time and I´m seing how is the 'otherside'. ---------- Post added 8th Dec 2012 at 09:13 PM ---------- I was in doubt if Oz was Australia. I forgot most of the kiwi and aussie slangs
Ah, plasticcrows still at it with his usual MO of arguing AGAINST queer people and our rights and dignity while defending homophobic discrimination at every opportunity... As you might know, in the Southern states in the United States (such as your state of Louisiana), it used to be common for businesses of all types, bars, restaurants, stores, etc. to discriminate against black people and only allow white customers, using the same logic as yours that white people, of which there are more than black people, wouldn't want to patronize a business and spend their money if black people were there. This wasn't okay, and it took sit-ins, protests, and lots of struggle to get LAWS passed making this sort of thing illegal. Thanks to the Civil Rights Act, a business cannot discriminate against someone in providing public accommodations based on race. In some states today this has rightfully been expanded to cover sexual orientation and gender identity, though we still have many more to go. Unfortunately it does not appear that Brazil has laws against discrimination either. Stories like this serve as reminders that marriage equality is not the only issue on the docket for LGBTQ equality. In fact it might not even be the most important one. Preventing discrimination against queer people in public accommodations, employment, housing, healthcare, etc. should be our foremost goal. Branconegro, I'm sorry you had been to be subjected to such dehumanizing treatment. We've all been there or likely will be there at some point in our lives, and it does sting to be treated like that. The fact that this bar owner was someone you had liked and trusted only makes it worse. I hope you don't let it get you down. Find a new bar to hang out in, never go back to this one.
