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"Give friends time to adapt" - yes, but how long is too long?

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Dalmatian, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. Dalmatian

    Dalmatian
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    Hi all. Just a rant, I guess.

    I've known this friend for some thirteen years now, at least eleven of which we've been close friends, roommates and so on. He's always known about my sexuality as much as I did myself, meaning he knew when I was confused and questioning and when I thought I was asexual and in the end he was the first person I talked to when it finally dawned to me that I'm gay for good (that was more than three years ago). He was always the first.
    During this last decade, he got married and got two beautiful kids. I was always a significant part of kids' life, they adore me, I'm just crazy about them, his wife likes me and everything is seemingly as it should be in a good friendship.
    However, he never wanted to talk about my problems when it came to sexuality, never wanted to know the details and avoided all mentioning of the topic. I know he's having a hard time accepting homosexuality, although he admits himself he has no rational reason for it.

    So, a couple of days ago, we were having coffee in the city, alone, first time in years I think (with kids and his job, he doesn't have much free time, so we usually combine adult hanging out with babysitting). He said he wanted to talk to me openly so that I understand where he stands.
    He told me that although he can't defend it in any logical way, he still feels awkward and tense with me around, because there's always that elephant in the room.. He understands that his reaction is emotional and he doesn't want it, but he wants to be honest to me and tell me the truth (now, that part kinda annoyed me, because what the hell makes people think that if they are being honest, it makes their bigotism right?).
    Then he went even further and said that he feels uneasy having me play with his kids (which I already noticed; ok, so I like tickling them and they hug me and climb all over me and everything, but what the hell is wrong with that?). He immediately added that he, of course, doesn't think I'm any kind of threat to them and that he would always leave them to me, as he did in the past. But then he also said that he just feels that he has to protect them and that he can't help it. And this annoys me as hell, because he has no right to imply pedophilia and then run behind his sanctity of fatherhood. Especially with these kids; I absolutely love them.

    So, I don't know what to do.. I let it go, I just said calmly that he's wrong and I tried explaining a few things, but I didn't want to go too deep. It wouldn't have helped.

    Now I'm lost about this. I understand some people need time to come to terms with homosexuality. But it's been three years now since I'm completely out to him and a decade since he's known I might be gay. After three years, he still feels awkward and he's still tense around me! Does that mean it will never change? And he's worried about his kids? What the hell? That part makes me wanna cry... What can I expect in the long run? What about when his son hits puberty?

    All is well when I think about these things in theoretical realm. Yes, homosexuality and pedophilia are as comparable as heterosexuality and pedophilia are. And yes, being gay is perfectly ok and natural. But then, in practice, you get something completely different. From closest people.
     
    #1 Dalmatian, Jan 6, 2013
  2. Kirito

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    I think you need to have a long, serious talk with your friend about the tension and awkwardness between the two of you in order to settle any issues. With regards to his kids, perhaps letting the wife in on this or letting her know might gain support if he doesn't come around.
     
    #2 Kirito, Jan 6, 2013
  3. cscipio

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    I've never had this experience, so I can't relate, but I've heard of it from others (the kid part). I've always wondered what makes people correlate homo to pervert? You don't hear of parents feeling uncomfortable with their children around hetro friends nearly as often as with homo. Sorry that you're dealing with this.
     
    #3 cscipio, Jan 6, 2013
  4. pinklov3ly

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    Wow, I'm so sorry your friend hasn't come to terms with your sexuality. I think you've given him plenty of time to accept who you are. And the comment he made about his kids being around you is just plain ignorance on his part. If he knew the definition of pedophila, he'd realize that he has nothing to worry about. I mean, most pedophiles are heterosexual and married with kids of their own.

    I understand that he's been your friend so years, but sometimes you have to let go of certain friendships. You deserve a better friend who accepts you for who you are.
     
    #4 pinklov3ly, Jan 6, 2013
  5. PinkTractor

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    I'm really sorry you had to go through that. It's harsh, and wrong. But unfortunately not unheard of. My gf has been discouraged from spending time with her own nieces, not because they think she's a pedophile but because they fear being a lesbian is contagious.
    There's nothing rational about it, nothing fair or reasoned or logical. Your friend has an irrational fear, and you are caught up in it.
    I hope things get better for you. :slight_smile:
     
    #5 PinkTractor, Jan 6, 2013
  6. Ianthe

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    Hmm, and you are in Croatia? I really don't know what to suggest. How prevalent are these kinds of attitudes where you live?
     
    #6 Ianthe, Jan 6, 2013
  7. myheartincheck

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    Wow! I hate when my sister compares homosexuality and pedaphilia... (she doesn't know about me but she compares those two as well.) They are completely different!

    I'm so sorry. You gave him ample time to come to terms with YOUR sexuality! It's not even HIS! I also fear my sister will be weary about letting me around her kids if she knew. She might think that I will "influence" them to be gay.
     
    #7 myheartincheck, Jan 6, 2013
  8. pinklov3ly

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    My sister acted like I was contagious, as well. She'd run out of the room if I walked in and she'd move away from me whenever I got too close to her. And I've noticed that she does act funny wherever I play with her daughter--my niece. I have all boys, so of course I'm excited when I see her.
     
    #8 pinklov3ly, Jan 6, 2013
  9. Hexagon

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    They consider homosexuality to be 'deviant' or 'evil' or another ridiculous adjective. And they also consider activities such as rape and pedophilia to be deviant or evil. And since we all know correlation (obviously not real correlation)implies causation, they assume homosexuality can somehow lead to rape and pedophilia.

    Utter bullshit, obviously.
     
    #9 Hexagon, Jan 6, 2013
  10. Byron

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    I know that I don't know about the situation as well as you and that I haven't experienced anything akin to this, but from what you have told us of you conversation, I think that you are overacting.

    Xenophobia is the fear of the unknown and often comes with a feeling that one needs to defend oneself against what one does not understand, and I think that you friend is experiencing this and is confused as to why.

    I think that you should just talk to you friend about (for lack of better phrasing) what being gay entails, try to emphasize how being gay does not mean anything beyond that you are attracted to men. Try to find out what about him makes him uneasy about you being gay. I think, from what you have said, that he has these feeling and knows that they are irrational and is trying to prevent them from driving a wedge between the two of you and that he is telling you this because he is confused by these inate feelings that conflict with what he knows about you. He knows that you are a good person, but he has this nagging feeling at the back of his mind that conflicts with that, and he is trying to keep this feeling from influencing your relationship.

    Again, the above is only based on what I have determined from what you have posted, I may or may not be correct. i just wanted to suggest this one possibility so that you might consider it. I hope that you and you friend will remain to be friends and that this problem will sort itself out.
     
    #10 Byron, Jan 6, 2013
  11. Dalmatian

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    Thank you all for your comments. Sometimes it helps just knowing that someone knows.

    Ah, well that's exactly what I am trying to avoid. This is not just any person; it's a friend of more than a decade. We've had good times and we like each other; we understand each other (well, in everything but this). Friendships are precious and I don't want to burn bridges.. it seems such a waste to let go now.. Then again, that's my worry; if it won't change, if he won't change, then what's the point? I'm confused.

    Well that's another thing with him too. He seems to believe that homosexuality is socially contagious. He once told me before (but he repeated it this time again) that he doesn't want to risk his kids being gay. That it's his duty as a parent to try to protect his kids and that he will do everything in his power to let them know that homosexuality is wrong (not wrong per se, but for them). I tried to reason with him, I tried explaining that with that kind of attitude all he's going to achieve is to raise his son to be either homophobic (if he is straight) or lost and depressed (if he is gay). He didn't want to understand that. And he said he can't believe sexuality of his son is already set. I offered to send him some info on that, but he wasn't interested.

    Thanks :confused:

    Prevalent. People think homosexuality is either an illness, a fashion or whatever; it's just not something associated with "normal" people. Situation is better than a decade or two ago, but still it's a problem. Just now, the government is trying to push sexual education in schools, part of which is also saying that homosexuality is ok, but there's a huge resistance from the right wing politicians and especially the Catholic church. But it will probably pass.

    What's bothering me here is that I understand how older people (not that older, let's say 50+) might see it as unnatural, because it simply didn't exist in the media before; but when it comes to younger people, I expect some difference..

    But why do you ask? What would you have suggested if I lived somewhere else, USA for example?

    That's my worry! Am I overreacting? I know I have to give people some time. But with him, more than anyone, a lot of time has passed. I don't even care about that; I'd give him all the time he needs, but I'd like to think that something will come out of it. But no, after three years nothing seems to have changed, except, maybe, that his fears and doubts and him being repulsed by me has all been defined enough for him to be able to voice it. It seems as if he is more sure now than he was before.

    What's the point? Am I going to be even more disappointed in the future? If he doesn't change and I can't speak to kids or, God forbid, bring a boyfriend over? I mean, is there anything worth saving here in that case, if I will not be able to introduce my boyfriend to the person I once thought of as the best friend, and to his kids who I love so much?


    It's kind of in vain, isn't it? It's not "people who hate me" and "people who accept me"; it's more like "people who don't care for me" and "people who are uncomfortable with me". What a lonely thought..
     
    #11 Dalmatian, Jan 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  12. Deaf Not Blind

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    It is a lonely thought. I don't want peeps uncomfy with me either. I think they already are. Long before questioning, about 1 year 1/2 ago, a Catholic-raised older sister of my best friend and me became enemies. It was over her selfish greedy actions. Suddenly she said that if I still went on same flight as them, to not even talk to her kids....she had also said "you must admit, you are different." I think because how I talk and act and never dating she thought I'm a pervert child molestor??

    I think media in USA does not help. They like making scary bad guys, and historically put a gay man in drag and made him a killer pervert. Considering I am Christian myself, and was begged several years ago to teach Sunday School it really bothers me this false accusation inferred on me...or you...or anybody.

    I have a long term best friend who moved away when married. She is getting a bit over religious...not more moral, just more into trying to raise her child in a perfect Christian environment. She really reacted the worst when I came out. I had to cuz I'm a guy and she kept doing stupid stuff as if thinking she could trigger a maternal need in me to go on and then i would marry and poop out the babies too. I got paternal instincts instead! She told me the devil is behind this not God. Well gee thanks. She asked immediately "so you like girls?", not a clue does she have what she's talking about. My own mom is far older and is doing far better!

    So I think the issue here is where your buddy is at in his life. He is a young father and is freaking out cuz it is society putting responsibility on his shoulders for all input given his kids. If they misbehave they may think he is to blame: let them play violent video games, watch TV show with profanity used, go to a play where actors had hinted at nudity, or maybe had a friend visit to often that was a bad influence. He is over thinking it, full of irrational fear, and part of it is culture of both church and family/friends, and part of it is his own and his wife's values...it is completely his choice.

    I am not Croatian, and I am not a gay man, and I'm not you in your situation. You do what you must. Me, I am blunt, and my friends know I don't mean to hurt anybody I just say what I think. So if I were in such a position with my friend I would confront it head on, list each thing he said/did that is wrong, and tell him flat out "If you think I am going to turn you all gay, or that my love for you and your family is sick and that I am going to rape everybody, you tell me that flat out to my face no tip toeing around me anymore! you hear me? I am not a freak or pervert, you twit! I WAS your best truest friend! WAS...cuz honestly I am so hurt by how you treat me and these things you have thought about me, I don't want to be around you anymore. I do love you, but you got my love all twisted and distorted disgusts me! It will take a lot of proof that you are worthy to keep me as your friend, and frankly I don't think you are man enough to stand up for me...I think you are scared what others think. I am so disappointed in you." Then I would walk away. But thats me.
     
    #12 Deaf Not Blind, Jan 8, 2013
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