First off, I want to express my total respect for all the people on this form who are struggling with coming out. I have a gay brother, who is open and out and have had many gay friends who I have stood by as they struggled with how to tell friends and family. I watched them suffer with fear of the unknown and fear that they would not be loved or accepted. For many of them, the fears they had were unfounded. Most people who love you love YOU. they don't love (or not love) your orientation. True family and friends want nothing other than for you to be happy and live a complete life, what ever that means for you. So please take what I am about to say as being said with respect and hope for you all who are struggling to make the right choices with regard to timing of you coming out. When should you come out? IMMEDIATELY! there is no better time than now. If you are struggling, you will continue to struggle. If you are gay, well - you know it. There is no amont of praying (if you believe in that) or counseling (if that is your thing) that will 'fix' gay. Denying your self your desires is a time bomb waiting to happen and the longer you wait, you are going to create exponential damage to yourself and those around you. I know that society, historically, had forced many gay people to live a double life and to buy into the notion that they had to have a 'traditional' life. If that was you and you have a hetero spouse or partner, please, PLEASE do not continue to live this double life. Doing so is selfish and is not helping you or your spouse, your family, your children or anyone. By living this double life you are rationalizing and justifying your fear. It is not OKAY under ANY circumstances. Please take responsibility for your own life and set your person free. Every minute of every day of every month of every year that you live the lie you are hollowing out your partner. Gutting them from the inside. They know "something" is wrong but they can't identify it. Maybe you have just an attraction to members of your own sex or maybe you are fully active on Craigs list/*********/other sites to hook up. Your partner's identity is being erroded. They are being denied the love and sexual fulfillment that you promised when you married them. Your fears about your partner, family, communtity, co workers, church people, etc is just plain selfish and weak. Have faith that those who love you will be by you and those who aren't -- well this is a good time to thin the heard of fase friends. Be honest with your self and think, really think, about how your partner must feel in the day to day of your life. Look at your actions and notice your partner's reactions to you. Are you coming home late, sneaking around with your phone, avoiding intimacy? Are you justifying it by how they act to you? Your partner, no matter how difficult, annoying, cold, bossy, manipulative, bitchy, whatever, can not fix the relationship because YOU ARE GAY! Now think, and take responsibility for the collateral damage you will be causing. Yes, YOU are creating it. YOU lied. That is the cold truth. As a gay person, you of course deserve the support and love of your friends and family. Your spouse probably already knows but can't face the truth. Telling him/her will be a huge relief because it will explain A LOT about why the relationship was broken. But do not for one single second think that your new found freedom will be met with a coming out party by your spouse. Your new found freedom and relief will be felt as the exact polar oposite. Your spouse will see the death of a dream. The death of a future. They will feel cheated and if you cheated on them - HOLY HELL will be unleashed. Your spouse may have given up a career, moved for you, altered his/her life for the sake of family. You deceived them. Plain and simple. If you have children, your children may be resentful because of the deception. Most likely they will not hate you for being gay, they will hate you for being a liar and a cheat. They will see you fliting about in your new found acceptance with new friends, possible new relationship and a new social life and they will be there to pick up the pieces of their life which was wasted with you. In coming out, you will create an enormous amount of collateral damage. Please do not, in your fear, turn it around and make it about something your partner did. They did nothing wrong. Do not let your fear lead you through the separation process. Because most states have a no fault/community property divorce laws, being gay will not get you punished, conversely the spouse who worked very hard to support you/your dream and created financial safety for you will not be rewarded for doing so. They will not get to keep more. So be fair to your grieving spouse in the process. Consider your role in the sham of a life you created and ask yourself what is really fair? You may actually, if you think about it, realized that giving your partner a financial head start can help ease their pain a little because starting over will be so scary. If they were the 'breadwinner' asking for money will only exacerbate their pain. Your spouse will feel like they gave you the best years of their life, please don't add insult to injury. Do yourself a favor and just be honest with yourself and your partner. Consider this the time to as you come out to 'fall on your sword' and take responsibility. Do NOT wait for them to find your phone/texts/email/etc. Don't be 'forced' out. Because that will truly make the hurt worse. You will look weak and cowardly. So don't blame them for FINDING it just take responsibility. You are gay. and if you are a liar and a cheater, well admit that too. Being mad or embarrassed will not change any facts of your life. If you ever, ever loved your partner, put your orientation aside and think like a human being. Be honest, gracious and respectful. Because the isolation and fear you have been feeling will be felt by your spouse. Your spouse will not have the support system that you have. they will be alone, scared and feeling the fear that you, right now, are feeling about coming out. The difference is that they will also wonder if you ever loved them, ever felt attracted to them and they will struggle with trusting everyone in the future. Now that you are ready to come out and live an 'honest' life, please extend that honesty to all corners of your life and try and be empathetic. In Peace, marie
Thank you for this, I feel as if you were telling this to me directly; it is very important for all of us in this same situation to recognize the importance of what you are saying. I am about to negotiate a settlement with my spouse and yes indeed, I fully recognize my enormous part in the sham that this marriage became. She did give me the best years of her life, she did put aside her own dreams for the sake of founding a family, and yes, she is in deep mourning for the lost years. This divorce is necessary, wrongs need to be put right, and I have no stomach to argue for giving her the minimum. I have already committed to provide her with as much assistance as I can, with as much as I can possibly give to atone for this mistake, it is from deep remorse, and I cannot change the past. I can argue until I am blue in the face that I did love her, that I really believed that I could make it work, that the early years at least, were happy. Eventually perhaps she will remember that it wasn't all black. For now, I need to accept my responsibilities and I will honour them, without hesitation. I don't think I am winning my "freedom" from living a more honest life, caring for the kids and yes, my ex-wife will continue for many years to come...it's the most that I can do...
You are correct but you are talking in 2013 terms and not the terms of the 50's, 60's and 70's. growing up in those years with the oppression, rejection, discrimination and homophobia of gays was overwhelming to most. Then came HIV. So to turn this around... What are you doing to fix "straight" culture and society in general? Straight culture built EVERY one of the closets out there with how they treat gays. If people loved and accepted the gay person who would need a closet? When you hit a dog with a newspaper don't be surprised when the dog runs if you touch a newspaper. Keep in mind; gays did not build the closets straights did.
Skiff - yes, this is 2013, so live in it. Regardless of which generations built the closet and who all lives in it, the time is now to be honest with those you love. The generalities in which you speak of are acknowledged. But specifically, I am talking about YOU, YOUR Family, ME, MY spouse, MY children. MY / Your immediate circle who lives NOW, in 2013. What am I doing? Change comes with one person at a time, so while I can't personally fix society, what I can do is try and positvely influence individuals to be kind and respectful. So Personally, I am an advocate for human rights. LGBQT as well as anyone who is oppressed, which includes the straight, unsuspecting spouse who became collateral damage. As the acceptance of the gay lifestyle becomes more mainstream and celebrated, there is another group of individuals who has been harmed by the closet. Not all straights are hateful or prejudiced towards one's orientation; we are supportive of your struggle. What I am pleading for is that you don't drag anyone else into your closet, if that is where you chose to remain. OR if you have a spouse/family others who are being deprived a full life because of your choices, set them free with Gay is not a choice. Lying is. Your loving straight spouse/child never hit you with a newspaper for being gay. But if you are married and living a lie, that will probably get you more trouble than being gay!
Have you read some of the threads from younger members here on EC? Their suffering is immense. Some discuss suicide to relieve the pain inflicted on them by family and society. As for older closeted gays it is not easy to unscramble the egg. Life will continue to be complex and painful until society stops building closets and all those who have experienced the closet are healed and whole. Gays are not the seat or creators of this problem. There is no simple answer at this moment as homophobia abounds. I suspect you are angry and hurt that a gay person has impacted your life. Can you imagine the pain and pressure this gay person endured being forced into to the closet, and the pain of living a lie for years? A partial answer is coming out, the true answer lies ifor society to stop building closets. Read the posts of the 13 year olds. See their suffering. See who is creating the suffering? Then judge those in the closet. For a last point... There are members of EC in countries where the penalty for being gay is still death. Not lose your job but lose your life. You are speaking to a wide audience suffering a deep spectrum of discrimination. Gays do not create this it is forced upon them. The only true answer is for society to change and the closets disappear. Just my opinion.
Mariebadger, I think you're missing a BIG part of the picture. We DON'T all magically know we're gay from birth. Many of us question, or are confused or in denial. It's not as black and white as you seem to think. We have members here that didn't know they were gay till they were in their 30's, 40's, 50's. Skiff raises a VERY important point, coming out is still very dangerous for some people. I'm really, truly sorry you were hurt.
I was dating a girl for over 5 years before I came out to her last week. I told her as soon as I was certain... Read my story if you're interested: http://emptyclosets.com/forum/coming-out-advice/90644-my-story.html
Hi Mariebadger, First, welcome to EC. Second, this is a support forum for people coming out, and that includes you. When your partner comes out, so do you. A lot of the support we receive comes from daring to be different. The fact is that there is still a huge stigma surrounding therapy. Now us LGBT folk have an edge as far as coming to terms with ourselves and learning to challenge society's expectations of us. But therapists see straight people, especially people who have had a spouse come out of the closet, all the time. The support is there. You just have to face your own fears as far as reaching out for it. It is very difficult for anyone, LGBT or not, to walk into a building with a rainbow on the side feeling the imagined eyes of society as they do it. It takes guts, plain and simple. And that fact is really unfortunate. Groups like PFLAG understand that reaching out for that kind of support is plain not an option for some people. Especially when they live in intolerant families, or parts of the country. So one thing they've done, specifically for people such as yourself, is they have put together an amazing pamphlet for spouses of LGBT people. I know you're probably not the pamphlet type. I know I'm not. Usually this is the kind of thing that I would honestly toss in the garbage. But the information inside is really unbiased and helpful. I would strongly urge you, if you are not in a position where therapy or support groups for people exactly like yourself are an option, to read this: http://www.pflag.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Publications/Straight_Spouse.pdf I'm terribly sorry for your pain. Please feel free to come here any time you need to vent. And thank you for fighting for equality.
Not every place is equally accepting. There are some people whose lives could be in danger if they come out, either through homophobic violence or becoming homeless (for teens and some young adults, a homophobic parent could mean being kicked out with no place to stay). There are even some countries where being gay is still illegal and could get you thrown in jail or possibly executed. Ideally, everyone could come out and be accepted. (Actually, ideal would be if 'coming out' was no bigger deal than saying you prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla.) But we've got a ways to go yet, and some places are further from that ideal than others.
All thank you for not attacking me.... And for those of you who just discovered you're gay - I get it. Late Onset. My point there was tell your spouse / partner ASAP. Congrats to the guys who did just that! I am very proud of you and your integrity and ability to see your spouse / partner as a human who deserved the honesty and respect you gave them... That is all that I was asking. I am not in a position to council 13 year olds who are suffering. I have no experience personally being tormented, bullied or shamed into a closet. I do though have a brother who is gay and watched him struggle with his coming out. Fortunately for him (I think) my family is loving and accepting and we all "knew" before he admited it. So, his process was more coming out to himself. That being said, my original post was not to address the younger audience in their coming out process. Clearly, you all are better equipped to help those folks. My issue is with the men/women who perpetuate the lie and rationalize it. They think that it's okay for whatever reason they can sell themselves. and in doing this they justify prolonging the horrible relationship / marriage where they deny their spouse intimacy and love that they desire. I think that the more gays who lovingly come out to their spouse (as soon as they realize they are gay) the less heart ache they will cause. AND - most importantly - this will help your acceptance. Your spouse can be a champion for you in your coming out process. YES - I am sure the process is scary. BUT keep in mind, you have a partner who loves you. They love YOU. not your sexuality (granted, that is presumably what differentiates your relationship with them vs. everyone other opposite sex person in you life). So this person who loves you will want the best for you, and despite how hard it will be initially to disclose your secret, you will find support if you do it in a way that is honest and where you accept responsibility for the demise of the relationship. You all know better than anyone, you can't fix gay so your relationship as you know it will end. My situation represents just one scenario. My husband knew he was gay from day one. He was a victim of redneck america. lots of secret affairs his whole life, startting at 15, back in the early 1980s. Over the course of our 10 year marriage he had over 100 'casual' encounters and hookups from various websites. he invited his 'partners' to our home...... I found out. He was pissed. His family is religious. They HATE.... H.A.T.E. gays of any kind. We live in BFE rural america where people say fag, queer and other unwriteables... So I get why he was in the closet. Why did he get married? to make his mom happy and to perpetuate the facade of a 'normal' life. So yeah, I was hurt and pissed too when I found out. BUT I loved him for who he was - his sense of humor, his quirky jokes, his love for our children. That part of him will always stay the same. I didn't want to make his life more miserable. ... Fast forward 2 years later, his family has accepted him. He has not lost a single friend and I think that our experience has opened the eyes and minds of many people in this area, making it easier for others to come out. SO... back to my original plea. If you have a spouse and if you knew you were gay all along and shamed into the closet - Come out now - don't wait any longer. If you just found out or are having questions or feelings - trust your spouse/partner - have a grown up discussion and figure out how they can help you. AND be mindful of the fact that regardless of where you are in your comfort your spouse/partner will suffer immensely and you should take responsibility for your part in upending the life that they thought they were living. You may be gay but that doesn't make you unlovable. You are loved by your partner. Trust in that and love them back. And finally - if you are that 13 year old who is in an awful social situation. i am sorry. But have faith in yourself in who you are in your heart. It will get easier. Peace.
Is it lying if you believe that what you are saying, or living, is the truth? Who would enter into a marriage with such a lie? If I believe something, then whatever I think is true must, of necessity, be consistent with that which I believe to be true. Until February 12th of this year, I believed that I was straight. Until that day, I actually believed that I was married to the wrong woman for me and that all I had to do was find the right woman. There are other issues in our marriage besides my being gay, I am not entirely responsible for the breakdown of this marriage. The other partner's own issues must be taken into account. With regard to my sexuality, I could not believe anything else about myself, I thought I was living according to what I believed myself to be. Until that changed, call it cognitive dissonance, the contradictions became too fierce and I had to change what I believed about myself, and I had to conclude that I am gay. I had to come out to myself. The marriage happened, three beautiful children came of it, I have to believe that this happened for a purpose, it was not a lie, it was an illusion, and we are both to blame for it.
Greatwhale - I wish you had been my husband You seem like a nice stand up guy who figured out your orientation later in life. I am so proud of you for your journey - I read your story and I could never possibly begin to understand your struggle, but I am glad that you immediately came out and were true. My GH was gay and knew it since he was 15. He lived in a small town with small minds and bigots for parents. his dad would have beat the crap out of him and his mom would have cried in church, trying to pray it away. So between the potential beatings and prayers - that's why he was in the closet. Did he need to drag anyone else in?? NO! of course not - that was a choice. The fact that he was a liar has nothing to do with being gay. Gay doesnt' give people personality disorders - he clearly couldn't tell right from wrong. I never, ever would have married him if I knew he was gay. So I take zero responsibility for our failed marriage. However, I have met many other people and even on this forum who discuss exploring their sexuality without telling their partner. There are people who find that it's acceptable and I wanted to be a voice to say no. it is not acceptable and that their partner may be support for anyone questioning their orientation.
Marie, One more thing I probably should have mentioned, if you don't want to thumb through that whole pamphlet, here's a direct link to the Straight Spouse Network. They should have some resources that can help you with the tremendous pain you're feeling as you pick up the pieces. http://www.straightspouse.org
Cassie - thanks for the info.... I am not a pamphlet person, but I did read through it. Truly some heartbreaking stories. For the last couple of years I've been active in the straight spouse network and found some help there. My intention here was to just try and get to the root and possibly save another straight spouse/partner from the heartache caused by those living a lie and to encourage anyone to trust the person they love for help. In the end, regardless, everyone WILL get hurt. there is no way out - but doing it respectfully and immediately can help ease the pain and expedite the healing so that everyone can move forward.
Hi, By the time a married gay person reaches EC they are on the road to resolution. Humiliation (at the news) Honeymoon (it can be fixed) Rage (can't be fixed to my satisfaction) Resolution (dealing with new reality) That is one view of the stages a straight person goes through when they learn their spouse is gay. EC is resolution. If the gay person came here first there would be no marriage. In that scenario the beautiful children you have would not exist. No parent wishes that. Embrace the good fruits of your marriage and let the anger go.
A lot of us married gay folk (to opposite gender) love our spouses deeply often for decades. We cannot see our lives without our best friend-spouse. We do not and would not cheat on them. Our children were created in love not lies. I've accepted I'm gay but I am also frustrated I cannot be to my husband what he deserves. A woman who is as passionate about him as he is about me. He knows and accepts me being gay and wants to stay married.I want more for him. For many being gay is an "us " issue not just an "I" issue.
