Not so proud of this ...

Ok...I think I know why you are doing this! I read it on the internet the other day! You are having sexual urges....and you dont have a BF, i dont think. SO, you are finding the easiest ways to pleasure yourself. The way I would dela with this is, go out to a gay bar and meet some other gay guys. This may help stop this perversion. This is all my advice I have to give...srry if it isnt helpful!

 

I think it might be a little more complicated that trying to find someone at a bar. After all, if you were to go to the bar, find someone, and did the same thing... the relationship hasn't changed, only the target. It seems like this is a misplacement of affection for you. Your urges for affection are being transversed with your self-described "perversion". If that is the case, it would be beneficial for you to discover why you are confusing affection with perversion.

 

Do you have any other thoughts that you cannot control or that lead to behaviors that you wish you could stop?

 

Hi there. I'm glad that you've recognized that you have a problem that you want to deal with, and that you've found the courage to bring it up and ask for help! That's great - because often those are the most difficult things to do.

While I haven't done exactly the same things, I think I can relate to what you're going through. My sexual behaviour took me down paths that I (based on my values and beliefs) didn't want to go, but I couldn't seem to stop myself. And over time, they got worse and worse, and began to take over more and more of my life.

These behaviours can develop into an addiction - where you can't stop even though you consciously want to. But often the worse you feel about your behaviour, the more you end up doing it - which is your way of avoiding the emotions (shame and guilt) that you've not prepared or capable of dealing with.

PM me if you want to discuss. You can get help and overcome this. I'm SO glad you've taken this step now, and not waited for it get even more out of control. Let's chat. You can add me to MSN messenger as well - my ID is in my profile. Thanks.

 

Well... first off it would probably help if you didn't label what you're doing "perversion." KaraBulut is probably trying to get at whether you have other compulsive behaviours because you could be suffering from OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder). But before we medicalise your behaviour to that extent...

I don't think the urge to check people out is perverted. It is a little over-the-top to wait around for the chance to do it frequently for such long periods. But there is a lot of guilt and shame for many people over being gay and I've heard lots of similar stories regarding developing kinda attachments to public washroom and that kind of behaviour that is considered "dirty" by a good chunk of uptight sex-negative society.

That being said, you're still pretty young (21) and you're confused about your sexuality. It sounds to me like you've being doing some hardcore repressing of your sexual urges and as a result, they've started to express in... let's say distressing/unhealthy ways. A lot more distressing than simply being caught up in catching people naked is touching people inappropriately when they're unconscious. There is no getting around the fact that that is not really a behaviour that you want to continue. However, I think constructing it as something dirty/perverted makes it easier for you (or anyone who this has happened to) to think of it as something separate and uncontrollable from the "real you" or "good you." In terms of what happened with the friend you told, it sounds like you were just really horny and really lonely and really desperate for a connection and you crossed some lines that no one wants to cross but I think in reality you'd find that many people have at some point in their lives. Lots of people, especially when we're inexperienced with sexual boundaries, go over the line at times.

I think if you want to apologise to your friend for what happened you should try framing it like that, like you generally feel pretty lonely and you'd felt like you had a connection with him and you are incredibly sorry you did that and made things so uncomfortable. It's funny how much you can control how people react to things by how you present them. That is, if you go on some kind of guilt-induced rampage on yourself about how dirty and perverted you think you are, the apology is probably not going to have a positive effect, either for you or for him.

I can't claim to know whether what's going on with you is some kind of clinical level disorder like OCD or if it's just a result of you being severely repressed in terms of how you express your sexuality. I think it is pretty fair to say, though, that beating yourself up by labelling yourself and what's happened as "perverted" will likely hinder any attempts you make to address what's going on and to change it. Guilt is a very common emotion but it's also a very unproductive one--it doesn't really encourage any kind of positive change.

I think staying with your guilt, as it were, won't help you deal with what's going on. I also think a lot of people talk themselves into believing their issues are "uncontrollable" and that they "can't stop themselves" because they end up constructing them as somehow foreign to themselves. People can deny ownership of their behaviour because they view it as so separate from how they see themselves. I.e. these things I'm doing are so wrong/perverted/evil, but I'm not a bad person, so now I'm paralysed because I've been somehow "possessed" by this compulsion to do things which I know I wouldn't do because I'm not like that. Except of course the person is doing these things and often continues doing them.

If you don't try to work through the guilt and off-the-cuff rejection of these actions as "not the person I consider myself to be," then you can't ever get at what are the root causes of the actions in the first place (which in your case I would guess and say is loneliness, sexual repression, and just general horniness). Anyway, those are my long-winded thoughts.

 

I suppose this could be true for some people. But I would suggest that someone that is addicted to something (substance or behaviour) really can't stop themselves. They will try, but they'll go back to their behaviour time and time again - without help. (Hence the millions of people that belong to various 12 step groups around the world.)

And if it is indeed an addiction, then to suggest that the problem is integral to who the person is - rather than being one part of the person that needs to be addressed - can be detrimental to recovery. The guilt and shame in fact feed the addiction. It's when the person is feeling down (perhaps becuase they're beating themselves up over their problems) that they are more likely to act out. It's important to remember that they aren't a 'bad person', but instead they're a 'good person' with a 'bad problem'.

It's understanding why you do the things you do, and why you can't stop (even though it sounds like it's interfering with the rest of your life), that will tell you whether or not you're an addict...

And that isn't some kind of 'death sentence'. Addictions are overcome with time and hard work, and you end up being a better person than you've ever been if you apply yourself to the program.

 

Actually, I was not thinking of OCD. Jim is more on the track of what I am thinking. I am interested in more information though.

 

What I was getting at is that there is a difference between a bad habit and an addiction and that I think there's a rush these days to medicalise things as addictions or disorders when they might in fact simply be a result of someone being ethically challenged owing to any number of issues.

And it's interesting how you've read my comments because in fact I was trying to say that whether based in addiction or not, the original poster's behaviour didn't strike me as an indication he was a bad person but rather that he had some underlying issues which led to the behaviour. Those issue might be "just" emotional or they might be related to addiction--it's impossible for us to know. But really I would think that if someone were suffering from addiction that it would be more truly considered an "integral" problem/issue than what I was describing inasmuch as from everything I've read and experienced, addiction is not something that "goes away" or is easily (or even at all) segregated from one's life. And I don't mean in (now) naming an addiction as "integral" that it means anything negative about the person suffering from it; I just mean that if the problem in this case is not about addiction, then it's probably much less serious, and thus less integral, than addiction. That is, it seems like any attempt to minimise an addiction prevents someone from fully addressing it. Obviously no one wants to be known as only an alcoholic or sexaholic or chronic gambler or whatnot... but from what I can tell, owning the fact that one is, that it is a serious part of one's life (that it is, basically, integral) is a really important step toward recovering from said addiction. This view mirrors my feelings about gay people who insist they are people who happen to be gay in an attempt to avoid having their gayness somehow overwhelm the totality of their being; to me, "I'm a person who happens to be gay" is just a way of artificially attempting to cordon off one's sexuality and minimise it in a vain attempt to say it's not as integral as it really is.

All that being said, my experience has been that many people seem prone to denying responsibility for their behaviour by framing it as something "they just couldn't help." As I've discussed in another thread recently regarding cheating on one's partner, I think that often (not always, but often) "I just couldn't help myself" is a convenient cop-out. Obviously that kind of situation and a struggle with addiction are totally different... but just because addiction is something extremely difficult to grapple with and unavoidably real doesn't mean there aren't people out there who will frame their behaviour in a way that makes it seem like they have no control over themselves to avoid having to deal with the issues that are skewing their ethical boundaries. However much addiction is a very real and pressing issue for society, there is (in my view) a far too common tendency towards denying accountability for one's actions and behaviour in our world today.

Hopefully that helped clear up what I meant.

 

I agree with joeyconnick, this sounds to me like a severe case of repression which encourages abnormal behaviour. Perversions maybe a little strong, but as you have said Konfused, you tapped that out in haste in an attempt to get the severity of the problem across.
You seem to be stigmatizing yrself which allows these urges to manifest themselves in the behaviours you have discussed. It was a big step talking about it and that demonstrates your good nature (just incase you were doubting yrself.) The best advice I could give you is to take a step back from the situation and contact a therapist or councellor. No doubt, there will be one in yr area and they are obligated to keep all issues on the DL and out of the public arena. I would suggest discussing the incident with yr friend with a professional before you confront him.

Hope that helped, good luck
RFB

 

Well for one thing I think that you should stop beating yourself up for being attracted to guys the way you do. If you are gay that is just in your nature to be attracted to other guys. Awkward moments like in restrooms or being unfortunate to be in the same bed as another guy can be tough situations to deal with. Any straight guy that was in the same bed with a girl would probably have the same type of thoughts run through their head and they may also cope a feel. So don't feel bad about wanting to touch other guys like that. I believe that it the the closeness between you and others that may bring up these urges.

If you get into another situation like that, channeling your thoughts to anything but the other guy could help. Think of cold showers or stubbing your toe, I know it sounds weird, but just as long as your thoughts aren't 100% focused on your bedmate.

As for talking to your friend about the situation, I would just tell him. It sounds like he a very nice and understanding guy. If you feel that the connection between you two is good, then I see no problem in bringing that up.

Hope this helps you in some way. (*hug*)

 

lol don't worry dear :lol:

you arn't alone..i used to smell every hot guy's clothing in my class while they are changing for PE (pe is first thing friday mornings btw :dry

espcially Russell...omg.....he smells soo good. but, i stopped.cuz i was almost caught and i got scared like a cat and never did it again. however, guilty...nahh. i am not guillty, i think everyone here does it. most of the jocks here take pics fo their dick and sell it around the school or circulate it for popularity so most of the popular kids....almost everyone(except for freshmans) have seen their privates sooo.....i have a reason not to feel guilty.

the next bizzar thing is that, these so called "straight" guys also take pictures of other guys privates when they are using the bathroom with their phones and show people(not me cuz i would dear not use public bathroom).....but...u know what they say" donkey say the world nuh level"

and it's soo true.

 

From the mention of OCD before. I wanted to add that I thought that was a possibility. Now, I'm not trying to make it clinical, or anything, just wanting to give my two cents.

I have OCD problems, which are almost text book examples. With what konfused612 was saying, the way he describes his problems sounds exactly the same way as I have to indulge that side of me on my OCD habits.

konfused612, if you are reading this, I want to put forward something, but I want you to tell me if this is how it happens for you, Let me know if you have any objections or would prefer to make this private.

There was a time I was addicted to always buying my meals rather then making them. I too, would tell myself I'd stop. But couldn't, as I was not prepared to deal with the emotions of feeling this deep seated, superficial need to do the thing. It is the same with some areas of personal hygiene, or making sure I have flushed the toilet, or making sure there is nothing important I could have accidentally thrown into the bin. It is just something you feel you have to do and you can't concentrate on anything else until you do.

Something along those lines?

I also agree though, with what others are saying about repressing yourself. What my initial thought was, is it possible that you have repressed yourself enough, that when you started doing these things as a minor issue, it became a full blown issue possibly in the form of OCD? as one thing will more often then not start out as one thing then become something else entirely. When I was a teenager, and flitting between wondering if I'm bisexual leaning towards women or lesbian. I repressed myself at first. I thought I hadn't but reading what you wrote and reflecting more on my own past, I realised that even though I did accept the fact that I prefer women, I still denied myself the opportunity to find a woman when I was younger. Even in the form of telling myself "no, I'm more interested in the older ones, it is best to wait till you are older"

I'd always wondered where, when and how my own OCD problems started. But now I'm asking myself the question "Did it start when I first repressed myself in the form of saying it is better to wait when actually I may have said that because I wanted to give myself a reason not to find a woman because I feel way too ugly and worthless to find someone?" this has actually opened another door and a whole lot more can of worms for me. Which means, I'm going to have to start doing some reflecting now as I may have an answer at my own finger tips for the rest of my problems.

Which brings me to my conclusion and another question. Usually when a problematic issue comes up it is a reaction to something else that happened or hasn't happened or both. Saying things like "it is a perversion" or "this is bad" or "this makes me worthless" or "I hate myself for this" is detrimental to you overcoming the problem. It might be more beneficial if you look at it in neutral terms as just a "problem" and rather then hating yourself for it or feeling worthless for it remember that you are still you, and the friends who are still sticking by your side and can see the good in you should show you that you are a worthwhile person. Having these problems doesn't change the core of your being, or your good nature, it just makes you feel like you sold your soul to the devil.

The way I overcame one of my major problems was to look at it in neutral terms, not think of it as something that changed me into a bad person but instead keep focus on the aspects that other people like about me. But above all, concentrate on the good things in life.

Family, hobbies which for me is writing, looking after my sister, cooking, doing my studies, making sure my parents are ok, well and happy, making sure friends are ok, well and happy. Engaging in conversation with my loved ones, and my fellow students in my language and creative arts class. Doing that will distract your brain from thinking about the deep seated, superficial need to do the things some of us do. And doing that will then allow your head and possibly heart to get to a point over time where you can confront the problems that plague a lot of people. You just have to have a great degree of patience. It also helps to have at least one person who can understand what you are going through. I was going to say something else but lost that train of thought. Anyway.

I know some of this may be easier said then done, but you just admitting it here is a sign that you want it changed, you want it to be a non issue, which also shows that you just might be ready to confront it. You may just need that little extra budge with direction in what to do and where to go.

Of course there is also the possibility that I have gotten all of it very wrong and way off course, in which case this post is moot. But if not. Then I hope I was of some help if not consolation.

And as I am still confronting some of my own left over problems, as well as having found a new question to which I need to find the answer. And you have your problems.

And this idea is only if I'm not way off course with this. Maybe we should join forces. That way if one of us is having a bad day you at least know there is one person who will listen, even if that person is over the other side of the world. Although from other replies here, I'm not the only one listening.

My other thought that I had lost was, if you also find your head getting too far ahead of you;

Stop, relax, and concentrate on what you are doing in the next half hour, or 5 minutes. Take things slowly, and one by one. Look at life as one man against an army, don't try to knock them all down at once, take them one by one. Or as the old saying goes "Divide and conquer"

 

The term OCD is often used to describe addictions or addictive behavior. OCD and addiction are different things.

The important thing about obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is that the behavior is not desired and it does not please the person doing it.

For example, a person who habitually and repeated performs a behavior such as washing their hands 7 times or pulling their hair out 3 strands at a time or spends hours stacking pennies in groups of 5 is exhibiting OCD behaviors because the behavior gives them no pleasure and they are compelled to do it against their wishes.

Addiction and sexual compulsion is different from OCD because alcohol, drugs, sex, etc are things that are pleasing to the person and the behaviors are things that person wants to do. The problem is that they have an impulse to do something they like to do but they are not able to control the behavior once it starts.

So, you might have an impulse to pat someone on the butt- something that would be fun to do. But you stop yourself because you know that the other person would be offended. An addictive person would not be able to stop themselves- once they have the impulsive thought, they must do it.

 

I agree and I know that addiction and OCD are different. But the things I was keying in on (in his original post) were that he does not desire them (at least from what he's said). And he wants to stop but can't. Which is only why I put my post out there, I do keep in mind though that it may not be him, I may have it all completely wrong. I'm just going with what I know from myself and others in the field. As well as my instincts.

 

That pretty much sums up what I think with respect to an apology... basically just make it short, sweet, and heartfelt and don't kinda hand-wring your way through it and drag it out: just say what you want to say, see what he says, and then let it be. For all you know, he might not have thought it was a huge deal or he might not even remember it. Things that are major to us are sometimes completely non-issues to others and things that are very minor to us are sometimes of huge import to others.

Use your apology to let him know how important he is to you; that is, make it about him, not about you.