If I didn't like guys, this wouldnt be happening.

I understand exactly where you are, and at your age I endured the same issues, the same contradictions and the same disgust with myself.

Only, I made the wrong decision and got married and had kids, and now I am in my own apartment, I no longer live with my kids, and even though I can see them when I want, and they can see me when they want, it isn't the same thing.

It's easier now (although still not easy) than ever before to live with integrity and be who you are. I urge you not to make the mistake of conforming to what others expect of you, or conforming to your ideas of what is "normal".

You have found love...unfortunately, he happens to be a guy who is married. You have two issues: one is accepting and loving who you are, and second, with that love, that self-respect, you will see that being with someone who is closeted and married will not satisfy you in the end, and is not worthy of the respect you owe to yourself.

You need to stop thinking that only he is "the one", there are others out there who could make you feel the same or more of this same love, but hopefully this time you will find someone who loves himself enough to be open about who he is.

 

What Greatwhale said. Plus, it is totally possible for people in a same-sex relationship to marry and/or have kids these days. It takes a bit more legal and logistical hoop jumping than what straights go thru, but its perfectly doable.

You can have the family you want. Just that instead of a wife you'll have a husband and your kids will have two dads.

Todd

 

Hi,

Believe me and others here...

You have no idea how strong and resilient you are.

It looks daunting but it is all a self inflicted delusion.

Read up on internalized homophobia.

Have you asked this guy about the future of this relationship?

 

There are always options and you are not alone. (*hug*)

Won't lie to you: Sometimes the options for a given situation may not be one's we are going to like or want to accept, at least at first. But there are always options, and often some pretty good ones are in the mix.

Regarding your present feelings, 'living inside yourself and receiving love only in the dark' is certainly an option. But so is living openly as part of a circle of friends who accepts you as you are. So is being part of a community (rather loose and diverse and sometimes a bit chaotic, but we call it a community nonetheless) of people like yourself (and we are millions strong). So is receiving love openly and freely and in the light (be that sunshine, house lighting, or soft candlelight depending on what floats your boat ).

There's nothing to be ashamed of in liking guys, don't let anyone else tell you different. Yes, there's the whole dealing with straight society and all the stuff you probably grew up with about how it expects you to live and what you should expect of yourself. But that same society once thought that loving someone of a different race or religion was a horrible thing. That notion eventually died out (mostly) and the idea that two men/women loving each other is a bad thing is dying out too. Kicking and screaming all the way, but it is dying.

You can be happy in yourself, you can be in love, and you can have a family. All of those options are available to you. You just have to decide that it's OK to work toward them.

Todd :smilewave

 

Hmm. Let's take this last first and take a moment to consider the term 'normal'. This is a term I've seen a lot on EC, usually used to refer to the 'straight ideal' (for lack of a better term). You mentioned it yourself in your earlier post. You know: Wife, kids, pets, picket fence, being just like everybody else and nobody thinking you are the least bit 'different'. In this context being 'normal' is the highest ideal that one can strive for in straight society.

Except it's not.

Look at all the things that society values most: Sports stars, rock stars, inventors who make gadgets we love, actors and sex symbols, wealth and fame and beauty. Diamonds, gold, rainbows, beautiful sunsets, amazing weddings that are different from everyone else's, unique homes, flashy cars, etc. etc. etc.

Despite what some elements of it may say in the context of sexuality, by and large our society values the unique over the common, the unusual over the normal. Very few parents are going to tell their kids to avoid excelling in the service of being like the 'average majority'. If you were incredibly good at sports, or a musical prodigy, or the guy who invents the next Facebook, or makes millions a year picking winning stocks, would you be staying up nights agonizing over the fact that you weren't 'normal'? Would anyone be telling you that it is bad to not be 'normal' and you should stop doing these things? Of course not, because all of the things I've mentioned are incredibly valuable, right?

Wrong.

All of the things I've listed above (none of them normal, but widely and highly valued) are only valuable within the context of our current society and because a choice was made to value them. Value is largely a matter of taste and context (how much are diamonds worth when you are dying of thirst in the middle of a desert? What value fame when your loved one is in the hospital and you don't know if they will survive the night?). As such, it is something that people can disagree on and it is something that can be viewed (and should be viewed in my humble opinion) as far less than an absolute, unwavering standard. Or to put it more directly:

Normal is a matter of opinion when it comes to society. Normal does not automatically mean good and abnormal does not automatically mean bad.

You're gay. Liking guys is normal for you. That others don't like guys the way you do is of no more importance to what kind of person you are then whether or not you like guacamole and someone else does not. It's a matter of taste. If someone tried to judge you as a person by whether or not you liked guacamole, you'd probably think they were nuts. How is judging you by whether or not you like to have sex with guys any different?

Oh yeah, and if we could peek inside the lives of all those 'normal' people who want to judge you? I flat guarantee all sorts of 'non-normal' things would come to light. Anyway.

Ok, let's talk about what your life might look like as a gay man. I can tell you what my life looks like:

My partner and I have been together 16yrs. We have a nice little house in one of the best neighborhoods in town. Two cars, two dogs, and a parrot (see my album for pics of the dogs and parrot). We don't have kids because we didn't want any, although having a parrot is sort of like having a 2yr old for 80-100yrs (cause they can live that long), and my Samoyeds are probably smarter than a lot of children.

During the week I'm usually up at 6 to put myself together, work out, and get ready for work. My partner gets up a bit later, makes coffee for himself (he really can't form coherent thoughts or operate heavy machinery (like a butter knife) until he's had coffee), and takes care of the animals before he goes to work. Get home at night (usually between 6 and 7), talk about our days, dinner either in or out, watch TV or surf the web until 11ish, then off to bed. Weekends we hit Costco (yes, every weekend, don't ask me how we do that), sometimes other places,lunch out. Sundays are brunch at our favorite restaurant, more errands, and sometimes housecleaning or yardwork. Tonight we're doing dinner out with a friend and going to see Man of Steel

As you can see my life is a non-stop 24/7 whirlwind of perverted sex and wild partying :roflmao:

Ok, so what would your life as an 'out and proud' gay man look like? What do you want it to look like?

You mentioned marriage and kids. In some states, it is legal for you to marry another man. More states seem to be headed in that direction. It is also legal in a lot of other countries. It is legal in many places for gay men to adopt or foster children.

Go to YouTube and do a search on 'gay dads'. You'll find a lot of videos about gay men being parents.

You've mentioned not wanting people to look at you differently. We chat with our neighbors from time to time, usually about the weather or the annoying college students on our street or nearby (I live near a university). They surely know what our relationship is by now. To my knowledge they don't look at us any differently, and if they do they don't show it. And we don't care anyway.

While it's impossible to predict the details or guarantee that everything you want will happen, you can exercise a lot of control over your future and your life.

You don't need to hide, you don't need to be ashamed, you don't need to be afraid. Besides, walls are heavy and require lots of work to maintain. Wouldn't you rather be spending your time and energy on something else that's more fun?

Todd

 

All that you have said is just proof that your are repressing your homosexual feelings. You know there is nothing wrong with it, it doesn't cause harm, but are hung up on some ideas that it may be and are using that as an excuse to not get what you want.

Once you are in a relationship with a guy you will realized a heterosexual nuclear family is not what you want, and that it doesn't work for you.

You can still have a family, but you are desiring something you wouldn't want anyways.

Kind of like people who dream of being famous, they are desiring something they most likely wouldn't want(no privacy, fast-paced un relaxing lifestyle, constant criticism).

Being a heterosexual is something that should be left for heterosexuals to do, enough said.

 

Hi Josh - great to see you again

I think the main thing that can help is just talking about it to someone with a friendly and understanding ear. Luckily we're having a special on those at EC this century :smilewave

Much more seriously, just being able to talk to someone can be very helpful. Catharsis, letting it out instead of holding it all in. That could be talking to us here on EC, to a support group or therapist in real life, or to someone(s) else who will be supportive and listen to you. Speaking for myself and EC, we're happy to both listen and offer thoughts on whatever you'd like to discuss.

Regarding dealing with anger: I know a little bit about that. Here's a link to a post I made in response to something else on EC a while back:

http://emptyclosets.com/forum/chit-chat/89123-how-close-you-your-family.html

the relevant post is #18 in the thread.

All that was mostly family life. School wasn't a barrel of laughs either, although pretty minor compared to home. I hit college a very angry young man. College helped, but there were still bumps there. I think I mention the roommates who decided they wanted to kick me out because I wasn't happy enough. One of them also turned out to be something of a user, although I knew that before we became roommates (accepting it took rather longer). Anyway, despite all that, I am a much happier and calmer person today

A lot of that came from talking things out with folks, during and after college. A lot of it honestly came from discovering I was gay and developing the mindset that I could do as I pleased and as long as it made me happy and hurt no one, it was no one's business but mine. Those with a problem with it could go F themselves. Or they could try to 'change' me, or browbeat me about it. At which time that past anger came in handy. I like to make religious bigots cry...

Oh, and a lot of getting rid of the anger came from the realization that the only thing it was doing was hurting me. It certainly wasn't bothering the people who had spent years making me angry. It seemed a much more fun way to spend my time to just let the anger go (without forgetting why I had been angry) and live my life. When I did, I felt so much lighter and freer and had the time and energy to spend time on things I enjoyed more (like having sex with guys ).

As far as not wanting to be gay - I didn't want to have two different colored eyes, but I do anyway. I'm ok with it. There's lots of things about ourselves that we don't ask for. Most of them we just take for granted as being born with them and part of ourselves. Being gay needn't be seen as any different. It isn't limiting you, really, although I know it may feel that way right now.

As far as what others say - To quote the Bard: This above all things: To thine own self be true. If other people don't like that you're gay, that's really not your problem, it's their problem. How are you hurting them by being gay? Are you taking food from their mouths? Money from their pockets?

At most you are making them feel emotionally uncomfortable when they think about you having sex with another man. You're not even having sex with another man in front of them (I would assume), it's really just them imagining you having sex with another man.

Why should you be miserable and ashamed for the sake of someone else's emotional complacency? And by what right do they have the gall to say such awful things about you because you don't fit into the nice little comforting box they would prefer everyone fit into? They are the ones who are doing wrong. Who are wrong. Not you.

To turn this around, let me ask you this: In what way is it wrong for you to be gay? What (specifically) makes it wrong rather than simply a matter of taste that other people don't share?

This isn't just a rhetorical approach, it's also to help understand where you are coming from with your feelings so we can address it more directly.

Regarding seeing your life as a secret or an abomination or just being sex with random strangers:

It doesn't need to be a secret or something to be ashamed of (why is being attracted to dudes something to be ashamed of? Who are you hurting?). And you don't need to have sex with random men, unless you decide you want to (in which case, please play safe!). There are other options, as many people here will tell you, if you want to exercise them.

Ok, I'll stop now. It's getting late and I need to hit the hay. Also getting sense I'm a bit tired and possibly starting to babble (apologies if I am).

On a totally different note: I will be leaving to visit family in Alaska for 2wks starting Sunday. While I'll have internet access part of the time (and bringing my ipad with cellular internet), I will obviously be somewhat out of pocket for large chunks of time. So if I don't respond to something for a bit, please don't think I've bailed on you or anything like that. Not the case, just out of pocket or visiting relatives. I'm sure there are lots of other folks here who will also be happy to weigh in whether I'm around or not

I just didn't want you to think I'd gotten bored and wandered off or something.

Take care and looking forward to talking more,

Todd:smilewave