My confusing (but good) coming out

Oh my gosh, I HATE you! I mean, you just described the gay boy fairy tale! You are pretty much living like 99.9% of gay people's high school fantasies! AHHHHHHH!

Wow... no seriously, that sounds indescribably awesome. When I was first reading and you said you didn't kiss him, I was nearly screaming, "WHY NOT?! AHHHHHHHHHH!"

So I'm glad to hear you wised up in that respect.

Seriously, I know not everyone agrees with me, but when moments like that come along, it is CRIMINAL not to seize them. Purely criminal. Because they are just a lot more rare than one would think. And this whole "preserve the friendship" "defense" is just... well, stupid. No, it really is. I mean, if you're good enough friends, you can negotiate murky waters between you. If you're not, then there are other fish friends in the sea. Because the logical extension of the "but I wouldn't want to ruin our friendship" argument is that you end up having relationships with people you don't know very well who you might not find good friend material, and frankly I'm a firm believer in your significant other being your best friend, or one of the small group of your best friends. And frankly I think it's just an excuse to avoid risk. I mean, I can appreciate wanting to avoid risk but to disguise it as concern for a friendship when it's really concern for allowing yourself to be even more vulnerable to someone is, well, super counterproductive. And bullshit. And denial.

Oh... uh... yeah, back to your story: that's like the best story I've read in forever. I hope you really savour it and have fun. I have to go be green with envy now.

 

Gah! :O

Basically what Joey just said... that is one AWESOME story. I can't believe it... the odds... it's so cooool 8)

Wow.

 

ok, I officialy envy you.

If any of the... well... two guys that I had crushes on when I came out had reacted like that, I'd be a very much happier guy... XD

Anyway, I'm happy for you, and how things turned out.

 

WOW!!! what a great story! i hope the relationship goes well with you 2 and you guys able to tough it out.

 

I think the situation is amazing, You're trying to tell him, he tells you, everyone's confused about what just happened. lol, great. Dont feel bad about saying no at first, I remember thinking that it would be extremely weird to do something with a guy a while ago just because it wasnt an idea that i was used to. Imagine telling your first person you think you are gay, and then immediately have a horrible experience kissing him! it would be terribly confusing. As for the trouble in the relationship, don't sweat it, It's going to be the same whether you are with a guy or a girl.

 

I think that's pretty normal, especially during someone's first few relationships.

Hmmn... well just because you're self-conscious doesn't mean that you aren't hot--or that he doesn't think you're hot. I think EVERYONE is self-conscious to some degree, however "hot" they may be.

What seems to help is to talk it through with the other person. I know I was EXTREMELY self-conscious in my first relationship even though I didn't happen to turn ugly for it. But I was lucky because my boyfriend kinda worked it through with me... made me feel safe and attractive and it probably did wonders for my self-esteem that no doubt last to this day. I think if people realise that self-consciousness is more about fear of being vulnerable than it is any kind of objective judgment about their own attractiveness, that helps. Like instead of framing it as "oh he's so hot; how could he want me?" frame it as "he's so hot and I'm so scared/nervous/etc." And just communicate that to him--if he's worth his salt, he'll hopefully respond reassuringly.

Stop right there! Do not get caught up in whether you're a "virgin" or not. "Virginity" is about the dumbest, most patriarchal control freak stupid oppressive category ever. And relatively meaningless in the context of queer relationships.

Who cares if you're a virgin or not? Anyone who seriously does is pretty fucked up.

I considered myself "not a virgin" long before I ever had anal sex. To me, "not a virgin" meant "sexual non-experienced." So once I had been physically intimate with another person (a boy, as it turned out), I figured I wasn't a virgin. But that just goes to show you that virginity is simply a construct that is meaningless. I mean, maybe someone's "first time" can be considered different from the other times you do something but wrapping it up like it's this thing that can "taken" or "stolen" is, well, nutso. People don't have this one "virgin" card that others can take away and they can never get back--it's a totally artificial way of thinking of it. Plus it's a completely disempowering way of thinking of it. Have I mentioned it's a dumb concept? *grin*

And frankly, if he's such a romantic, he wouldn't have started something he wasn't gonna finish and then claimed it was some kind of romantically-motivated decision.

What do you mean by "pure?" If you want him to "take you," you want him to take you. Whether you want sexual gratification or some kind of deep spiritual connection, it doesn't change how you feel and it doesn't seem (to me) like it should change how you feel about having that desire. I mean, if you're horny and you want him, so what? Or if you're feeling loving and you want to "be closer" with him, so what? If he's enjoying himself and you're enjoying yourself, why saddle yourself with a guilt trip? There's nothing wrong with feelling "slutty" anymore than there is with feeling "loving." It's all part of our spectrum of sexual feelings. Maybe (more than likely) it's a mix of both.

Wanting your boyfriend to take you sounds like a pretty okay thing to me, whatever its root cause. I mean, wanting anyone to take you is just sexual desire... what's wrong with that? Does it hurt anyone? Does it make the world a darker place, that you lust after someone? Does it do some kind of damage?

As for your preferred pacing and his preferred pacing, well, that's something that can only be sorted out by talking it through with him. It's not fun and it's not easy but it's the kind of thing that doesn't really solve itself. Maybe you only think he wants to go faster--maybe he's being like that because he thinks that's the way he's supposed to be. Maybe you only think you want to go slower, because you have a hard time trusting him or being vulnerable. Or maybe you're spot on with your take on the situation--you'll never know unless you ask.

Wow... she sounds like a tool. I mean, it's one thing to be angry at someone; it's quite another to lash out at them about that kind of secret. That's really good of you to be there to comfort him--I'm sure he really appreciated it. I don't know about you but one of the best things I like about a relationship is the chance to be there for the other person. I find it really fulfilling.

That's sounds pretty cute. Perhaps if you tried it, he'd be the one wanting you to take him. *evil grin*

 

My own emphasis added to the quote:

Stop being a victim and get out of this relationship NOW!

I think your relationship is not a good idea, but not because he's still figuring out his sexuality. Being in a relationship can help a lot of people figure things out faster in fact. My problem with it is that he is being abusive both emotionally and physically to you, which is completely not acceptable. You can't count on him to change even if he says sorry every time it happens. Also, you're not "asking for it". He has no right to inflict that on you for any reason. It's important to realize while it's not your fault that he's abusing you, you have the ability to get out of this situation (by leaving him and cutting off all contact) and need to do so ASAP.

I'd also recommend googling around the web for info on abusive relationships. This site is just one example.

 

Hi xyc,

You're welcome for the detailed reply. And I'm sure your relationship is extremely confusing because it sounds like your boyfriend is pretty torn up about being gay. That's understandable--it's not exactly an easy thing to deal with for most people. And when people are torn up, they do tend to take it out on the people who are closest to them. And from the sound of it, you make an easy target just because he can foist all the self-hatred he's facing over his sexuality onto you and make you a scapegoat for it (kinda the notion that you're seducing/corrupting him).

That's all understandable but I don't think it's acceptable. Even if he hadn't slapped you, some of the things he's being saying sound to me like they go well beyond the basic "I'm having a bad day" sort of thing. He is having issues with his sexuality that he is blaming on you, and that's not fair. And no matter how much you might have asked or begged to be hit, it sounds like you really didn't want to be and weren't expecting it... and I dunno about you but that seems pretty extreme to me, for him to have done it twice.

I don't think abuse in relationships is a "one strike and you're out" thing... some people disagree--they think if someone loses it once, they'll lose it again, so basically there are no second chances. I'm not convinced it's that simple but I do know that very few people start out thinking they're in an abusive relationship. Part of that is because they love the person they're with and part of it is because to conceive of being in an abusive relationship means you generally end up thinking of yourself as a victim, and most people don't want to be considered victims. But from everything I've read up on abuse in relationships, a key point is that initially, the person receiving the abuse doesn't usually see it right off the bat and the other thing, which seems to be happening in your situation, is that the person on the receivng end of the abuse makes a lot of excuses for the person dishing out the abuse--excuses and justifications.

I think everyone probably mistreats the people they're close to on occasion. Sometimes this takes the form of verbal or emotional abuse, and sometimes it gets more serious. I know I was pretty cruel to one of my ex-boyfriends and I still regret it to this day. But the relationship you're describing, minus the slapping, sounds like it's an ongoing pattern of him treating you really poorly. It also sounds really cyclical, with the whole verbal/emotional abuse, the "break-up," the teary-eyed confession, then the reconciliation. Which is then followed by the same thing all over again.

Something to consider might be whether you would consider it appropriate if a teacher slapped you? Or a stranger? Why is it that it's okay for your boyfriend to have done it? I mean, shouldn't he be the last person in the world to be hurting you, whether physically or otherwise? Yes, he's going through a tough time and dealing with a lot, and so maybe that excuses him--occasionally--being thoughtlessly cruel and lashing out at you verbally. But what if one of your parents slapped you just because they were upset? I mean, would that be okay just because they blamed you for their being upset?

Our society would come apart pretty quickly if whenever someone got mad, they were allowed to lash out at someone physically and that was considered okay.

I really think that if one person in a relationship is going through something heavy that is directly impacting their relationship, that relationship is not gonna go anywhere or be worth continuing in until, to put it bluntly, the other person gets their shit together. I can imagine what an important relationship this must be for you because so many aspects of it sound quite amazing, but I would give some serious thought to whether it's worth being treated badly. And that's somewhat of a trick question: I don't think, ideally, it's worth being treated badly on a regular basis for any relationship, no matter how good the relationship is otherwise, how hot the guy is *grin*, or how good he is in bed. You're worth more than that, so I hope you'll realise this is your first relationship and there will likely be many more in your life--and that you don't deserve to be treated poorly just so you can have a boyfriend.

 

Well, perhaps there is no pattern of actual physical abuse, but I'm still not convinced this is a healthy relationship. There appears to be an ongoing pattern of emotional abuse which seems to be interconnected with a bunch of drama between the two of you. I still think you deserve better.

Maybe you should stick around to help out your friend, but I'm not convinced it's a good idea for you to be involved romantically or sexually with this guy as a boyfriend. To me it sounds like you're sticking with him because you're afraid of being alone and there's nobody else better in sight right now. Frankly, that's the worst reason ever to remain in a relationship. You need to ask yourself "do I want to be in this relationship right now?" not "is there another possible relationship on the horizon which will be better than this one?"

That said, in time he probably will work things out, at least to a certain extent. I mean a lot of people come to grips with their sexuality after a few years, but there are many who never really do. Things might work out or they might not. However, I imagine if things do work out, that'll be some time in the future. You don't need to be suffering like this in the present. You know the old adage: there are lots of fish in the sea.

 

because of the situation he is in, I really think you have to talk to him about what bothers him. It sounds like the problem is that he is sexually uncertain, and that is especially hard to go through when involved in a relationship. Make sure you talk this out with him, because you can learn something about him that can help you help him when he goes into these depressions, and you will be able to avoid becoming a victim. Most importantly of all, talking to him could show you where your relationship is headed.

 

i agree with hawkeye, u should have a little chat with him and ask him whats up. just talking to him about his problems could help him and your relationship a lot.

 

xyc,

I've been wanting to reply to your post for a while. I was in a similar situation w/ my college roommate, except I was the one who was very conflicted w/ the relationship (which is odd b/c my roommate is straight). After we fooled around, I always felt so awful. I would literally push him away; at those moments, nothing disgusted me more than the idea of touching him. It was completely unfair to him, and I regret it to this day.

To be honest, I don't think there's anything that he could've said to me to help me feel more comfortable about myself. I just needed time. So I think the best thing you can do is to be patient and to be a friend but to quit it w/ the physical stuff. B/c no matter how much he thinks he wants it in the heat of the moment, the ending will be the same every time: he's going to feel rotten, and he'll make you feel rotten, until he can accept himself w/o hating himself.

There's this wonderful song by Aimee Mann called Humpty Dumpty:

Baby you're great; you've been more than patient
Saying it's not a catastrophe
But I'm not the girl you once put your faith in
Just someone who looks like me

So better take the keys
And drive forever
Staying won't put these
Futures back together

And that pretty much sums up what I wanted to tell my roommate. Like, "Listen: I'm a completely nightmare. If I were you, I'd run away as fast I could."

And that shall mark the end of this episode of Completely Depressing Hopelessness, brought to you by Motionmaker.

(Ooh, btw, I totally get what you were saying about the hitting thing. One friend and I made a promise that we'd punch e/o in the face one day, but we drifted apart before it ever happened.)

 

I don't think you're being naive... you're being hopeful. Sometimes we hope in vain and sometimes we don't. But he does sound like he has major issues and he really, really shouldn't be taking those out on you by calling you disgusting or implying that you are somehow corrupting him. They're HIS issues, not yours.