I just received this article from another mail list and thought I'd share. It lays out the key conflict we face as married men coming out later in life. Well worth a read - though personally I cringe a bit when they refer to us as 'queer spouses', but apart from that it is quite insightful (it's a pdf): https://www.dropbox.com/s/hmwj1wr6lgtcy3z/Renegotiating%20identity%20in%20unscripted%20territory%20proofs%281%29.pdf Maxx
Awesome! I agree about the queer spouse reference, though. It seems a little out of place in such a scholarly article. Oh well, it still lends some insight into what a complex situation some of us are/were in! Thanks for sharing it! 55
Hi Maxx - an interesting find. It is typically academic though, isn't it, very wordy for it's own sake? (And, yuk, 'queer spouses') As with most papers of this kind, you can skip most of it and just go for the conclusion. For me, this bit catches the main point being made: Very relevant for me at the moment: Is it possible to satisfy my gay side and stay married? So yes, some new thinking and new ideas are needed. Answers on a postcard please. Oh, and this bit: Which is EC of course! Tom
Tom - another mail list I just joined is for men who are out but who have stayed married to their wives. It seems to often involve moving to an open marriage where the wife gives approval to the gay husband having a relationship on the side. One version of this is a 'Closed Loop Relationship' (or CLR) - and the husband and his gay partner on the side have a committed relationship - sometimes the wife knows, sometimes they don't. If you google CLR, you can see more info. There are also groups dedicated to the topic. Also, google 'Mixed Orientation Marriages' or MOM for groups talking about couples who stay together after one reveals they are gay. I don't think it would work in my situation, but good to know how people have made this work in their own situations. Maxx
Hi Maxx. No, don't think a side relationship would work for me either and I'm sure my wife wouldn't accept it either. I also found this article which might be helpful: http://www.kathleenmccoy.com/files/Man_you_love_is.pdf The last page has some interesting snippets. I liked these two paragraphs: and Tom
Although its a little on the late side (work and life in general have kept me busy), I wanted to say I appreciated the link to the article on Married Men Coming Out. The perplexity of figuring out where it is that I fit in right now has been absolutely exhausting and after reading the article I have a better understanding as to why. After reading it and thinking about the struggle I am having I went back and read some of the posts of mass, 55, Tom100, bobbgooduk, and others. Reading about the journey each of you have been through in working to become the "authentic you" has provided me with some reassurance that I too will get there one day. Despite the progress I feel I have made in learning to accept myself, I am having a difficult time imagining myself moving forward due to my kids. I think that this just further complicates the struggle discussed in the article and I do wish that they would have given further insight when children are involved. Any thoughts or words of wisdom gained would be apprciated.
Hi Solost, my heart goes out to you here. This whole process is Hell in a bucket. There's no easy answers. For what it's worth I'd just say the my first rule with kids is to treat them like adults - small adults perhaps. They have a right to know too and will respond better when treated like this and told the truth. Problems explained are usually not as scary as problems imagined. Thankfully, I didn't have to deal with this aspect, mine are up and away adults already, so any impact on them would be minimal, so can't give any direct feedback. Hopefully others can. Best, Tom
Hi Solost! Your kids have grown/are growing up in different times to those we experienced. I think you will find they are a lot more open to "difference" than we were raised to be. You're their Dad and nothing will change that. If they love you now because you have been a good and kind father, they certainly will not reject you for being honest with them. Reading life-stories shows you that kids love unconditionally, even in sad cases of abuse. My only advice would be to try as hard as you can to make sure they are not placed in the middle of any conflict which might arise between you and your wife, especially if the conflict is to do with your sexuality. Kids HATE being put into a position of having to choose sides, and it's demeaning to both parents too. They will also need reassuring, whatever their age, that your love for them HAS NOT and WILL NOT change, whatever happens in your personal journey. I found it so hard to tell my son, but his reaction was superb and it was affirming for me that I had done a good job as a dad after all. (&&&)
I understand why they use the expression 'queer'. They don't want to label - because as the article states, we don't necessarily 'fit' into predefined categories. Some men don't identify as gay, but they aren't necessarily straight or bi either. It was probably the best word to use - I can't think of an alternative. Solost44: I had small kids when my wife and I decided to separate. They were 4 and 6 at the time. When we divorced we simply assured them that mommy and daddy both still loved them, and that wouldn't change. We were separating for reasons that were 'grown up reasons' and it had nothing to do with them. My wife respected my wish to not disclose to them (or anyone else at the time) that I was gay, so I didn't come out to them at the same time. I waited a couple of years as it turns out - but even then they were only 6 and 8. They understood what I was talking about and it didn't seem to freak them out. It has just become their new reality. I had a boyfriend by that time, and they met him right away. He also had 2 kids, who they met as well. (It maybe helped that they had their own little built in support group.) Now they have one mom and 3 dads who love them (both my wife and I have remarried) and it isn't an issue at all really. Not as far as I know. Let me know if you want to discuss the kids more. They really are more resilient than you think. The 6 of us were away for a family vacation a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't odd or weird at all! It was just us away on vacation. I suppose it helps to live in Canada where these things are perhaps a little more easily accepted...
**shaking fist towards the North** You darn Canadians and your socially progressive ways!!! :eusa_clap Thanks for this article ... I may show it to my wife.
Jim Thanks for sharing more about your experience with your kids. As I had mentioned before, things with my marriage haven't been the best for awhile which just adds to an already complicated matter as I still work on my self acceptance. All summer long I have been sleeping on the couch by choice and it recently prompted my 12 year old to ask if my wife and I were fighting. He is by nature very sensitive and a worrier at heart so the question almost broke my heart to know that he senses something is wrong (for the lack of a better term). His simple question has caused me to revert back to my natural instinct of trying not to acknowledge who I really am. I just feel like right now that I need to put his needs ahead of my own. He had a difficult time four years ago when my father died after a botched surgery---my son blamed himself because of something he said right before the surgery. (His grandfather and him were best friends.) I know kids are Resiliant but I just don't think he could handle fining out his Dad is gay right now.
I just came out to my wife recently and I have a 10 y.o. stepson(who I knew since he was about 6 weeks old so i'm 'Dad' .I've been wanting to tell him but the wife has let it be me when I should or not. He doesn't understand why we'll be living in two different places..so I want to tell him before I move out.I just don't want to hide things from him...so I don't know..
